Not Rock Paper Scissors why did I catch Ben changing his build to take advantage of my builds weakness. Btw real a rock to scissors move. But Ben just told not one week earlier that build with large ships and no fighters was dead. Which btw way I was building to take on he previous builds fighter heavy nature. When I saw his build was a perfect answer to my build and had no fighters I knew how he winning every time he built cheesy builds to play against the major archetypes and switched up at the last second to get the easy win. When I switched up he would switch up. That time I lost three games with the same build each time to test my theory, and each time he ask me if was going to change. I didn't to see if he would change as knew he hated that build he was playing. He didn't change a thing. A friend also noticed this and agreed that was what he was doing as he usually only changes up when I change my list and each time it amazingly played against my weekends. That needs to be fixed. If you win the game based mainly on set up then it leads to people quitting early and not investing in the game. Which is what I am seeing and hearing from people in the LGS.

You do realize that this is because "Ben" is a ******, not because Armada is a bad game?

Did Ben tell you that perchance?..... Ben!

Meh.

Armada had a slow start that could be dominated by really obvious builds, but now it's become a game where good, sound tactics can carry you to a victory no matter what your opponent is playing. So given its slow start I can see why it has the reputation it currently has. That's currently easy enough to change with a friendly attitude towards others (tall order, given the diehards who play miniature games and stay cemented in their mindsets).

But I will say it's tough to find a place to play. I've got three large brick and mortar stores near me that regularly house other games, but neither X-wing nor Armada gets played.

No clue why that is, and no one can seem to answer me on that one. I'm in central Georgia, and checking into the GA regionals thread they had 32 players at the last event. You'd figure there would be at least six people nearby willing to run the new campaign that just dropped, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm interested to know why this game doesn't catch on.

Not Rock Paper Scissors why did I catch Ben changing his build to take advantage of my builds weakness. Btw real a rock to scissors move. But Ben just told not one week earlier that build with large ships and no fighters was dead. Which btw way I was building to take on he previous builds fighter heavy nature. When I saw his build was a perfect answer to my build and had no fighters I knew how he winning every time he built cheesy builds to play against the major archetypes and switched up at the last second to get the easy win. When I switched up he would switch up. That time I lost three games with the same build each time to test my theory, and each time he ask me if was going to change. I didn't to see if he would change as knew he hated that build he was playing. He didn't change a thing. A friend also noticed this and agreed that was what he was doing as he usually only changes up when I change my list and each time it amazingly played against my weekends. That needs to be fixed. If you win the game based mainly on set up then it leads to people quitting early and not investing in the game. Which is what I am seeing and hearing from people in the LGS.

Translation:

Someone more tactically minded and better than me beat me... waaaaaaah, Armada sucks, Armada is dead etc...

Back under your bridge (in a non-hostile, X-Wing player friendly kinda way obviously)

I love what this game could be but I am tired of the community elites dismissing it problems. Notice I was told to quit that is a jerk thing to say. Ok I don't matter the one for a year promoted this game started a club to watch it die and is now trying to wake people up.

But but...the majority of your posts are about you trying to tell the rest of use what's wrong with Armada. And that's a lot, according to you. Unfortunately any good points you might have had gets lost in the flame-bait.

I can always agree that there are a couple of things that could have been done differently in Armada, but the game is what it is, and that includes being very diverse and highly enjoyable.

Freakin Ben ruining armada for everyone...

Only on the internet can a single person destroy a game for the masses...

Played Ben several times... a very fun vassal opponent... would play again. <-- basically my yelp review of a player

Translation:

Someone more tactically minded and better than me beat me... waaaaaaah, Armada sucks, Armada is dead etc...

Back under your bridge (in a non-hostile, X-Wing player friendly kinda way obviously)

If Ben really did that then it is a jerk move. So no need for this.

Classic Ben.

MY PROBLEM WITH A CERTAIN TYPE OF X-WING PLAYERS:

there is a type of x-wing player that is all about "x-wing is for squadrons, just because we play x-wing and we dont need to se anymore squadrons, armada is/should be for capital ships only". having that opinion is ok, but they keep spamming it and considering it true.

NO.

x-wing is for skirmish dogfights, armada is for fleets.

in x-wing, you are a smalltime flight lieutenant. in armada, you are a general/admiral, if you also play x-wing imagine that you have been promoted. that is the true difference.

to say "x-wing has squadrons, so armada should have something else and not many squadrons" is like saying "skirmish games have soldiers, so games where you control armies should never have lots of infantry".

you don't believe that and cannot open your mind? fine. you can have your own opinion. and can say it outloud, i am not telling you to quit, i dont stop you from saying anything. but ffs, dont try to force us to accept it. that "my way or the highway" is not freedom of speech. i dont want to vocalize what it is.

regarding other problems: no game i have ever played is truly balanced. i have played lots of wargames... i feel joy in the fact that in armada i can choose any model, combine it with good support elements and upgrade cards fitting the everchanging meta, and build something worthy. most games dont have that. VSD, the worst ship currently, sees TONS of success. in other games, it'd be on the shelf forever. so, YES armada has problems, but you don't solve them by trying to turn armada into what you want it to be. when you do that it comes across as offensive to others that enjoy it.

What's a Ben?

And should I care?

It's official. Ben killed Armada.

Played Ben several times... a very fun vassal opponent... would play again. <-- basically my yelp review of a player

Yeah, i have found him fun to play against, but who knows which ben this is. Fortunately vassal ben doesnt use that name here.

Armada Elites? Man first time i've been called elite at anything. I'm flattered

Since the end of December i've noticed there's been a fair few posts from new joiners/ normally X Wing forum go-ers posting illogical and horrendously written critiques of Armada.

Maybe Admiral Nelson has unleashed a tide of his acolytes upon the forum? The End Times are here!

Not Rock Paper Scissors why did I catch Ben changing his build to take advantage of my builds weakness. Btw real a rock to scissors move. But Ben just told not one week earlier that build with large ships and no fighters was dead. Which btw way I was building to take on he previous builds fighter heavy nature. When I saw his build was a perfect answer to my build and had no fighters I knew how he winning every time he built cheesy builds to play against the major archetypes and switched up at the last second to get the easy win. When I switched up he would switch up. That time I lost three games with the same build each time to test my theory, and each time he ask me if was going to change. I didn't to see if he would change as knew he hated that build he was playing. He didn't change a thing. A friend also noticed this and agreed that was what he was doing as he usually only changes up when I change my list and each time it amazingly played against my weekends. That needs to be fixed. If you win the game based mainly on set up then it leads to people quitting early and not investing in the game. Which is what I am seeing and hearing from people in the LGS.

You do realize that this is because "Ben" is a ******, not because Armada is a bad game?

Did Ben tell you that perchance?..... Ben!

Not Rock Paper Scissors why did I catch Ben changing his build to take advantage of my builds weakness. Btw real a rock to scissors move. But Ben just told not one week earlier that build with large ships and no fighters was dead. Which btw way I was building to take on he previous builds fighter heavy nature. When I saw his build was a perfect answer to my build and had no fighters I knew how he winning every time he built cheesy builds to play against the major archetypes and switched up at the last second to get the easy win. When I switched up he would switch up. That time I lost three games with the same build each time to test my theory, and each time he ask me if was going to change. I didn't to see if he would change as knew he hated that build he was playing. He didn't change a thing. A friend also noticed this and agreed that was what he was doing as he usually only changes up when I change my list and each time it amazingly played against my weekends. That needs to be fixed. If you win the game based mainly on set up then it leads to people quitting early and not investing in the game. Which is what I am seeing and hearing from people in the LGS.

You do realize that this is because "Ben" is a ******, not because Armada is a bad game?

Did Ben tell you that perchance?..... Ben!

How about one the judges of the last xwing regional in Austin. I am not using his name for a reason he doesn't need to be involved in my rant. He plays armada and xwing with me every now and then but mainly plays xwing. He is noticing the same stuff.

There might be something to this, guys. After all, if anyone is going to recognize a "paper, rock, scissors" type of game it's going to be X-wing players.

Wait so a list built to take advantage of your list's specific weaknesses means Armada is Rock paper scissors? Dude I have played against and beaten lists specifically built to beat mine but I have still won. I have played list built to beat the list I was up against some and still lost. The list bulding is important but no lists is an auto win against another.

I would point out to anyone mad I said what said should known not to read a topic titled venting. So yes I am a troll but I did warn you before entering.

Armada is not nearly as meta as X-Wing is. I don't say that as a biased Armada player, I say that as someone who really wanted to get into X-Wing once upon a time a couple months ago. Here's the difference in Armada you can build a list however you want and typically you can pull through. You really like a particular way a ship looks you go for it. Obviously there are more optimal fleet lists and ship combinations for the most efficient synergy but typically you have a wide range to pull from. You really like Rebel Transports, theres a way to make that work. In X-Wing it seems that if you want to be competitive you have to pick specific ships.

This is most evident anytime new players ask in the respective forums what to get. In Armada the answer is typically, get a few squadron packs and then whatever you like the look of. X-Wing its always very specific. Get the Imperial Aces then the Tie Advance expansion and so on. If you really like the way a certain ship looks and its not a part of the meta well good luck ever playing that ship!

Wait so a list built to take advantage of your list's specific weaknesses means Armada is Rock paper scissors? Dude I have played against and beaten lists specifically built to beat mine but I have still won. I have played list built to beat the list I was up against some and still lost. The list bulding is important but no lists is an auto win against another.

Wait so a list built to take advantage of your list's specific weaknesses means Armada is Rock paper scissors? Dude I have played against and beaten lists specifically built to beat mine but I have still won. I have played list built to beat the list I was up against some and still lost. The list bulding is important but no lists is an auto win against another.

I run to the problem in xwing all the time but Armada it is way to much of an issue. Having the wrong build should be a pain but not 9 in 10 chance of a blow out.

If this problem is an issue you run into then instead of just writing basically an armada rage thread why do a Batrep so we can all see what happened?

For instance what were the lists involved for both sides? How did the maneuvering play out?

Secondly why does he know what your list is in order to counter it? I was under the impression players typically are blind to opposing fleets or are supposed to?

Armada is not nearly as meta as X-Wing is. I don't say that as a biased Armada player, I say that as someone who really wanted to get into X-Wing once upon a time a couple months ago. Here's the difference in Armada you can build a list however you want and typically you can pull through. You really like a particular way a ship looks you go for it. Obviously there are more optimal fleet lists and ship combinations for the most efficient synergy but typically you have a wide range to pull from. You really like Rebel Transports, theres a way to make that work. In X-Wing it seems that if you want to be competitive you have to pick specific ships.

This is most evident anytime new players ask in the respective forums what to get. In Armada the answer is typically, get a few squadron packs and then whatever you like the look of. X-Wing its always very specific. Get the Imperial Aces then the Tie Advance expansion and so on. If you really like the way a certain ship looks and its not a part of the meta well good luck ever playing that ship!

Wait so a list built to take advantage of your list's specific weaknesses means Armada is Rock paper scissors? Dude I have played against and beaten lists specifically built to beat mine but I have still won. I have played list built to beat the list I was up against some and still lost. The list bulding is important but no lists is an auto win against another.

I run to the problem in xwing all the time but Armada it is way to much of an issue. Having the wrong build should be a pain but not 9 in 10 chance of a blow out.

If this problem is an issue you run into then instead of just writing basically an armada rage thread why do a Batrep so we can all see what happened?

myself i promise to help the best i can. i dont claim to be some super expert, but usualy i am good at helping players.

also bear in mind, x-wing's "power/netlisting" is kind of a bandaid; i often play x-wing with borrowed ships, and if i play some FotM list and play reasonably smart i can win, especialy in a list with turrets that often make the concept of firing arcs obsolete. in Armada, no list gives truly a huge bonus, and nothing invalidates your arcs, so you must always navigate so perfectly merely to gain the privilege of...using your good batteries. this indeed can make it harder for new players, but it deepends the game experience, so imho is not bad.

Not Rock Paper Scissors why did I catch Ben changing his build to take advantage of my builds weakness. Btw real a rock to scissors move. But Ben just told not one week earlier that build with large ships and no fighters was dead. Which btw way I was building to take on he previous builds fighter heavy nature. When I saw his build was a perfect answer to my build and had no fighters I knew how he winning every time he built cheesy builds to play against the major archetypes and switched up at the last second to get the easy win. When I switched up he would switch up. That time I lost three games with the same build each time to test my theory, and each time he ask me if was going to change. I didn't to see if he would change as knew he hated that build he was playing. He didn't change a thing. A friend also noticed this and agreed that was what he was doing as he usually only changes up when I change my list and each time it amazingly played against my weekends. That needs to be fixed. If you win the game based mainly on set up then it leads to people quitting early and not investing in the game. Which is what I am seeing and hearing from people in the LGS.

Ok, now I'm starting to understand the problem. Ben is a total ****. I'd be willing to bet he's the major proponent for Armada in your area too isn't he? And I'm guessing a lot of your local players became disaffected after playing him? I would suggest getting a fresh start. Play some games with the other disaffected players. Box out Ben for a while. See how you like the game then.

I'd love to be able to help with you this rock paper scissor problem you're having, but I have no idea how to do so since I have literally never seen it. Every game I have played, no matter what was across the table, I have felt I could win. When the game is over and I've lost, I have never said "there is no way I could have won that." I can always, always, always point to mistakes I made or good moves my opponent made that decided the game.

I wonder, however, how much of my lack of seeing the rock paper scissor you are describing is because I don't get much of a chance to play outside of tournaments. Having two small children limits my ability to just go to a game store and play pick up. The tournament structure, while frustrating and rigid in some ways, would help with this problem of list tailoring because you can not list tailor in a tournament structure. If you can get together just four people and do a round robin, you might see a difference in how badly Ben can tailor his lists.

#blameBen2017

But more seriously, when I first started playing this game I too often thought that the game was either won or lost (mostly lost in my case) in set up or in fleet building.

What I realized though, and what most people should realize if they run into this issue, is that you might simply be bad at the game.

Which is okay! You can't be expected to be great at everything (especially if you're an x-wing player who only ever has to set up like, 4 things on a 3x3 i'd be better at deployment too if my opponents could only set up on a 3x3 whine whine whine...)

I digress.

The point is, the way I got better was practice. I learned to build better lists. More importantly, I got better at deployment. It's a key aspect of the game. It can turn a losing list into a winning one, or make your opponent's life hell.

If you don't want to devote the time to that though, and it is a good bit of time to devote, for certain, then perhaps Armada just isn't the game for you. It happens, unfortunately.

Both X-wing and Armada have list that are stronger than others, like pretty much any list building game out there. I still find that skill is a greater determining factor in losing or winning. If I had to pick the one that relied more heavily on skill than the other, in my limited experience with both, I'd have to go with Armada. Armada is a more strategic game and I don't think you are going to be able to take a strong list, play it poorly and still have it be easy mode. The best thing about both to me, and why I love them as games, is that I love playing them even if I am losing. I am ultra competitive and can't say that for very many things. When I still have fun even getting beat repeatedly I feel like at least for me the game is doing something right. FFG could completely kill all support for Armada, or X-wing, today and I'd still be playing a long time from now, so it would seem that it can't be all bad.