I am thinking about the typical Fat-Han with Expertise instead of Predator. Then you could change Luke with Gunner and save a point at the end.

Han (old). Expertise (instead of Predator), Evade title, C3PO, Gunner (instead of Luke), Engine Upgrade

Drawbacks I can see is that you sometimes intenionally want to reroll a hit result to trigger gunner, but it is not that much of a disadvantage to have the focus control instead of rerolling dice.

Other drawback is that Expertise does not work when you are stressed.

Advantages are: possibly more dice modifications, one point cheaper (when switching to Luke), better control (rerolls have still unknown outcome), fits better with Haks reroll because you still can modify 2 focus results instead of one by Luke

Thoughts?

I would stick with predator, because

1) Old han + gunner has this neat trick with predator. If you roll Hit blank blank, you can use predator to attempt to reroll the hit into a blank, so you can trigger gunner (and maybe hot copilot if you have it equipped). If your hit gets rerolled into a hit, you can then trigger old han to reroll the 2 blanks, making it function as if it is a TL.

2) expertise requires you to not be stressed, which can be quite difficult to do depending on your matchup. A simple rebel captive or R3A2 would disable your 4pt ept

And we're trying to make a horrible blight upon this game viable why?

Fat Han is worse than a Zuckuss party bus how?

Fat Han is worse than a Zuckuss party bus how?

you can dodge a party bus

Yes Experiste is great on Old Han. It's pretty serious damage buff over Predator.However, he is so chubby it's hard to pair him with something effective these days. Poe is not enough of an offensive threat @37pts max. Norra dies way too fast. Miranda is missing all her bombs and shenanigans. Really it's just one trick pony Jake if you want a decent tier 2 build. That's Han's real drawback (and why he wont return to tier1 anytime soon).

Fat Han is worse than a Zuckuss party bus Dengaroo how?

Expertise/Gunner Han is a big step up from having predator in my opinion. Not only does it seem to get more hits but it also simplifies your action choice. You really should not be taking focus actions anymore, and if you can somehow include Engine Upgrade into your list you only need to choose to boost out of arc or turtle up with an evade and 3PO. But like Celes said, the real downside is building a list around this 63 point monster. Without that though, it's the best version of Fat Han yet.

I love Expertise, expensive but fun, I ran into plenty of ships as cassian in the UWing with horrible piloting. No Stress, No problem! Still got dice mods!

I think Rey is even better. Take Rey, expertise, Finn, c3p0, engine, evade title.

I've found Rey crew to be particularly amazing, as she's basically a far more flexible and cheaper expertise if you can time your engagements correctly

course, everyone is too busy flying the overpriced rey pilot to notice

Might be true, but crew is already occupied by C3PO and Gunner. Otherwise Rey would be the first choice

there are ships besides the yt-1300

there are ships besides the yt-1300

Yes but this is a thread all about Fat-Han, as the title indicates

If you're using Luke or Gunner, then Predator is a clearly better choice. If you're not... then I still think the math works out in favor of Predator on Han, irregardless of the price difference.

IMO, Expertise clearly makes more sense on Rey (until FFG nerfs Kanan anyhow).

If you're using Luke or Gunner, then Predator is a clearly better choice. If you're not... then I still think the math works out in favor of Predator on Han, irregardless of the price difference.

IMO, Expertise clearly makes more sense on Rey (until FFG nerfs Kanan anyhow).

If you're using Luke or Gunner, then Predator is a clearly better choice. If you're not... then I still think the math works out in favor of Predator on Han, irregardless of the price difference.

IMO, Expertise clearly makes more sense on Rey (until FFG nerfs Kanan anyhow).

What's your reasoning for saying Predator is clearly better aside from that it helps you miss? Gunner and Han gives you 4 attempts at damage and Expertise gives you a focus on each of the 4 rolls. There's definitely pros and cons to each but this discussion is about how it's not a clear choice anymore.

Mathematically Expertise is superior to Predator on Han w Gunner and without.

But its also a point more expensive and shuts down when stressed, so it seems fairly balanced.

Pretty easy to check here:

http://xwingcalculator.x10host.com/diceuilm.html

If you're using Luke or Gunner, then Predator is a clearly better choice. If you're not... then I still think the math works out in favor of Predator on Han, irregardless of the price difference.

IMO, Expertise clearly makes more sense on Rey (until FFG nerfs Kanan anyhow).

There's no clear better choice here. I've been playing a lot with a fat han recently first with predator/luke and now with expertise/gunner, and its legitimately good - and the point saving can actually be quite important to what you can get into the rest of the list. The probability of getting 3 hits with expertise is about 42% - or 67% if you have 2 goes at it with a Han re-roll.

Obviously there are some situations where predator might be better - but what I really don't miss is re-rolling and not getting a hit, or re-rolling to a hit when you wanted a miss. Circumstantially, I've found that the damage output of expertise is at least as good as predator.

Having played expertise now I'm not sure I would go back to predator/Luke.

Also I'd suggest that predator is an inefficient card in the meta because you only get the maximum benefit when shooting at ps2 or lower - and those are fairly uncommon. Imagine how much more use predator would see if it was an ept with Dengar crew's ability.

there are ships besides the yt-1300

Not true, the quadjumper got blown up before it hit this selves.

Expertise is strictly better than predator, unless your ship is stressed. Rock, paper, scissors.

Why would you even WANT Fat Han, or any other 50+ point 3 red PWT with no real action economy to speak of?

- Scum have cheaper fatties with mobile arc doing the same job, only better, because they're saving some 20-30% points on the transition, and get their targets to be considered "in arc". Oh, and 2 greens with better pilot abilities and upgrade options.

- Imperials have ATs and Defenders, so they're even less impressed.

But wait, let's go through all this again, shall we? So you've got Gunner, Expertise and what not, let me take 1 damage on one of my 6-health Defenders. This is all your 50-odd points will do this turn, with perfect rolls and no control applied onto you, either. Bravo!

This is exactly why Dengar is so much better. And not because of Manny, sillies! See, Manaroo is like Biggs, Palpshuttle, or docked Phantom - it's a real boon, but actually costs hard space credits.

Now YTs in general have this nasty habit of not earning those credits back, because even if everything goes great, you're only going to do so much damage a turn.

Dengar on the other hand, will potentially double-tap someone, and rub in some Painbot while he's at it.

Why do people even try Rey pilot is beyond me. Sure, it's basically the only YT pilot HotR got, but you're paying some 59 points to kite out a PWT ship with full focus on keeping it's target in arc, lol.

The joke's on you this time, don't you get it? Accept the fact, that upgrade cards and Jess is all the good stuff you've got, and put that Rey to use on an unstoppable Kanan WarRig Ghost. There, job done.

there are ships besides the yt-1300

Thought you'd be all for the Millennium Falcon fickle, since it doesn't rely on green dice...

I think Rey is even better. Take Rey, expertise, Finn, c3p0, engine, evade title.

I completely agree. Then add an arc-dodging Poe and you're good to go

there are ships besides the yt-1300

Thought you'd be all for the Millennium Falcon fickle, since it doesn't rely on green dice...

ner, it provokes green dice by not allowing arc doging

regardless, I still think Kylo Ren pilot is the best place for expertise. FCS + expertise and you'll have full mods no matter what. Lets you coordinate without a care in the world

I've found Rey crew to be particularly amazing, as she's basically a far more flexible and cheaper expertise if you can time your engagements correctly

course, everyone is too busy flying the overpriced rey pilot to notice

Rey makes the Moldy Crow redundant as it was never quite a great ship to begin with, getting that focus stack is beneficial especially with all the options for flying as the rebels available. Of course she's great until you roll all blanks with 5 focus sitting there... What can you do??

I've found Rey crew to be particularly amazing, as she's basically a far more flexible and cheaper expertise if you can time your engagements correctly

course, everyone is too busy flying the overpriced rey pilot to notice

Rey makes the Moldy Crow redundant as it was never quite a great ship to begin with, getting that focus stack is beneficial especially with all the options for flying as the rebels available. Of course she's great until you roll all blanks with 5 focus sitting there... What can you do??

Again, the topic of the thread is clear. Please stick to the topic. Thx