And yet the first scene in the first movie, we see is of a boarding party capturing a ship.
Their Main Reactor had been Shut down.
I take this as the equivalent of "Lost all its Hull Points and is no longer in the Battle" as a comparison. So a Post-Battle Thing. The Ship itself was Hardly Firing Back at that point.
Boarding parties causing shenanigans aboard a ship i'm all for, but they should not be able to capture ships outright. Otherwise sure, add them into both sides.
Depends on the ship involved. A CR90 could be captured pretty fast as i has a crew of 30-165. Same woud be true for flottillas. Even a squadron of Shuttles or Stormtrooper Transports could be enough.
A Nebulon-B has a crew of ~900 and could carry 75 troops.
However capturing a full crewed ISD or even MonCal would be beyond the time frime.
Yep, i agree wholeheartedly. Even spacetroopers aren't gonna capture a Star Destroyer/Star Cruiser, let alone be able to turn their own guns against the rest of the fleet.
This one is kind of tricky.
I do, however, feel like there's a massive precedent for including them - the Clone Wars. The animated series made boarding actions seem pretty darn common. How many times did Jedi and clone troopers board a Separatist vessel trying to capture/kill General Grievous, or vice versa? Of course, the issue there is that you had a balance between the combat complements of Separatist and Republic warships. The Rebels trying to board an ISD would be suicide. I mean, an MC80 Liberty has about 5,000 crew and can carry a little over a thousand troops. An ISD-I has almost 10,000 stormtroopers alone. Plus, adding in a mechanic for boarding would require re-writing the rules for the game.
Better question would be - how many times in canon stories or movies have we had a boarding action take place where the boarding party did not include Jedi and/or Sith? I'm only aware of the one, in Lost Stars, and despite being well-prepared in advance, one of the major objectives of the battle, with ships specifically dedicated to the role, and including crew familiar with the interior of the target ship...it STILL failed.
Activities that only work due to the active participation of Jedi/Sith are probably best not modeled as a regular thing in this game. Boarding a ship is generally a suicide mission - all the defender has to do is open the compromised compartment to space, and all the boarders are dead. To pull it off, you need surprise, overwhelming force, and/or a Force user who can remotely flip switches, close or open doors, pull or throw people around, deflect blaster bolts back down narrow hallways, etc.
Boarding parties causing shenanigans aboard a ship i'm all for, but they should not be able to capture ships outright. Otherwise sure, add them into both sides.
And yet the first scene in the first movie, we see is of a boarding party capturing a ship.Boarding parties causing shenanigans aboard a ship i'm all for, but they should not be able to capture ships outright. Otherwise sure, add them into both sides.
This is why I generally oppose boarding actions. People want to entirely change the game. The suggestion here leaves it intact.
Yeah. One that has been chased down, heavily damaged, and locked into the crane of an Imperial Star Destroyer's main launch bay.
Only viable if we have a 3rd unique Vader, as a boarding party, that insta-kills a ship.
This one is kind of tricky.
I do, however, feel like there's a massive precedent for including them - the Clone Wars. The animated series made boarding actions seem pretty darn common. How many times did Jedi and clone troopers board a Separatist vessel trying to capture/kill General Grievous, or vice versa? Of course, the issue there is that you had a balance between the combat complements of Separatist and Republic warships. The Rebels trying to board an ISD would be suicide. I mean, an MC80 Liberty has about 5,000 crew and can carry a little over a thousand troops. An ISD-I has almost 10,000 stormtroopers alone. Plus, adding in a mechanic for boarding would require re-writing the rules for the game.
Better question would be - how many times in canon stories or movies have we had a boarding action take place where the boarding party did not include Jedi and/or Sith? I'm only aware of the one, in Lost Stars, and despite being well-prepared in advance, one of the major objectives of the battle, with ships specifically dedicated to the role, and including crew familiar with the interior of the target ship...it STILL failed.
Activities that only work due to the active participation of Jedi/Sith are probably best not modeled as a regular thing in this game. Boarding a ship is generally a suicide mission - all the defender has to do is open the compromised compartment to space, and all the boarders are dead. To pull it off, you need surprise, overwhelming force, and/or a Force user who can remotely flip switches, close or open doors, pull or throw people around, deflect blaster bolts back down narrow hallways, etc.
I am not going to say that Jedi/SIth are not a huge force multiplier but I do not think that it would be a suicide mission with out them. The defenders open the compartment to space, not an issue as your attackers are in combat space suits, problem solved. The defender closes doors in you way, blow the doors, if the defender also open the path to space, and they are not in space suits you now have less defenders to deal with. If the Jedi/Sith are not there to deflect blaster bolts then you will just need more troops (and/or armor to stop blaster fire). I am not going to say that it would be easy or could be done with no casualties, but it is very far from a suicide mission. Now is it needed I think it would be fun, but it is not needed to make the game work, I do think they could add it with out destroying the game. Also having just re-watched the capture from New Hope, Vader did not really show up tell after the ship was captured, so what impact did he have on it?
Boarding parties causing shenanigans aboard a ship i'm all for, but they should not be able to capture ships outright. Otherwise sure, add them into both sides.
Boarding parties causing shenanigans aboard a ship i'm all for, but they should not be able to capture ships outright. Otherwise sure, add them into both sides.
This is why I generally oppose boarding actions. People want to entirely change the game. The suggestion here leaves it intact.
And yet the first scene in the first movie, we see is of a boarding party capturing a ship.
First scene of movie...where did I say it wasn't thematic with the movies?
I did not intend to imply that you did, if that is how it came across for that I am sorry.
And yet the first scene in the first movie, we see is of a boarding party capturing a ship.
Their Main Reactor had been Shut down.
I take this as the equivalent of "Lost all its Hull Points and is no longer in the Battle" as a comparison. So a Post-Battle Thing. The Ship itself was Hardly Firing Back at that point.
Yes, their main reactor had been shut down, but it looked more like a single critical hit that shut it down to me, rather than "Lost all its Hull Points and is no longer in the Battle" Now as it was only one ship on one ship there was no other battle going on. I could see if there were still other ships doing this in the middle of the fight, after you got the crit that dropped their speed to a 0.
This one is kind of tricky.
I do, however, feel like there's a massive precedent for including them - the Clone Wars. The animated series made boarding actions seem pretty darn common. How many times did Jedi and clone troopers board a Separatist vessel trying to capture/kill General Grievous, or vice versa? Of course, the issue there is that you had a balance between the combat complements of Separatist and Republic warships. The Rebels trying to board an ISD would be suicide. I mean, an MC80 Liberty has about 5,000 crew and can carry a little over a thousand troops. An ISD-I has almost 10,000 stormtroopers alone. Plus, adding in a mechanic for boarding would require re-writing the rules for the game.
Better question would be - how many times in canon stories or movies have we had a boarding action take place where the boarding party did not include Jedi and/or Sith? I'm only aware of the one, in Lost Stars, and despite being well-prepared in advance, one of the major objectives of the battle, with ships specifically dedicated to the role, and including crew familiar with the interior of the target ship...it STILL failed.
Activities that only work due to the active participation of Jedi/Sith are probably best not modeled as a regular thing in this game. Boarding a ship is generally a suicide mission - all the defender has to do is open the compromised compartment to space, and all the boarders are dead. To pull it off, you need surprise, overwhelming force, and/or a Force user who can remotely flip switches, close or open doors, pull or throw people around, deflect blaster bolts back down narrow hallways, etc.
I am not going to say that Jedi/SIth are not a huge force multiplier but I do not think that it would be a suicide mission with out them. The defenders open the compartment to space, not an issue as your attackers are in combat space suits, problem solved. The defender closes doors in you way, blow the doors, if the defender also open the path to space, and they are not in space suits you now have less defenders to deal with. If the Jedi/Sith are not there to deflect blaster bolts then you will just need more troops (and/or armor to stop blaster fire). I am not going to say that it would be easy or could be done with no casualties, but it is very far from a suicide mission. Now is it needed I think it would be fun, but it is not needed to make the game work, I do think they could add it with out destroying the game. Also having just re-watched the capture from New Hope, Vader did not really show up tell after the ship was captured, so what impact did he have on it?
Boarding parties causing shenanigans aboard a ship i'm all for, but they should not be able to capture ships outright. Otherwise sure, add them into both sides.
Boarding parties causing shenanigans aboard a ship i'm all for, but they should not be able to capture ships outright. Otherwise sure, add them into both sides.
This is why I generally oppose boarding actions. People want to entirely change the game. The suggestion here leaves it intact.
And yet the first scene in the first movie, we see is of a boarding party capturing a ship.
First scene of movie...where did I say it wasn't thematic with the movies?
I did not intend to imply that you did, if that is how it came across for that I am sorry.
And yet the first scene in the first movie, we see is of a boarding party capturing a ship.
Their Main Reactor had been Shut down.
I take this as the equivalent of "Lost all its Hull Points and is no longer in the Battle" as a comparison. So a Post-Battle Thing. The Ship itself was Hardly Firing Back at that point.
Yes, their main reactor had been shut down, but it looked more like a single critical hit that shut it down to me, rather than "Lost all its Hull Points and is no longer in the Battle" Now as it was only one ship on one ship there was no other battle going on. I could see if there were still other ships doing this in the middle of the fight, after you got the crit that dropped their speed to a 0.
Dropped their Speed to 0.
Slowly Tractor Beamed them into the Hangar Bay
Locked them down with the Crane Arm
Then started cutting in through the accessways and bulkheads.
And yet the first scene in the first movie, we see is of a boarding party capturing a ship.
Their Main Reactor had been Shut down.
I take this as the equivalent of "Lost all its Hull Points and is no longer in the Battle" as a comparison. So a Post-Battle Thing. The Ship itself was Hardly Firing Back at that point.
Yes, their main reactor had been shut down, but it looked more like a single critical hit that shut it down to me, rather than "Lost all its Hull Points and is no longer in the Battle" Now as it was only one ship on one ship there was no other battle going on. I could see if there were still other ships doing this in the middle of the fight, after you got the crit that dropped their speed to a 0.
Dropped their Speed to 0.
Slowly Tractor Beamed them into the Hangar Bay
Locked them down with the Crane Arm
Then started cutting in through the accessways and bulkheads.
And how long is each turn in Armada supposed to represent? It did not look like it took that long to bring the ship into the bay to me (I would not say it was slowly), and I do not remember ever seeing anything about locking with a crane arm so no idea how long that would take. As for cutting in to the accessway and bulkheads it sure looked like they just blew them open to me. So depending on how long each turn is supposed to represent (and with only six in a game I am guessing a fair amount of time) all of that looks very doable in less than one turn (with lots of time left over to shoot and move, as in would not affect anything currently being done) but that is just my 2 cents.
Edited by CDATAnd you're entitled to your 2 cents - I just thing the chain of events (which basically starts, for me, when they are taken into the hangar bay) is the first part that's not represented by Armada - and is more probably "post battle"... I mean, one way or another, the Battle was Over, after all 
Boarding torpedoes. There's your catch-all explanation. They've literally been around since the 60s, why not in space battles with (marginally) better tech than tube amps?
Plus, y'know, gameplay > fluff.
Think it would be best to leave it as its own thing. I.e. instead of attacking, perform the boarding action and roll 2 black dice (meaning close range only). If you rolled at least 1 crit, search for the crew crit and give it to them. No damage otherwise.
Especially if its a Flotilla specific thing it shouldnt be a normal attack. Otherwise youre giving flotillas black dice lol
Boarding torpedoes. There's your catch-all explanation. They've literally been around since the 60s, why not in space battles with (marginally) better tech than tube amps?
Plus, y'know, gameplay > fluff.
And there are Stormtroopers who patrol the outside of the Death Star in space suits. I'm sure they have a bunch of those on board a Star Destroyer who could jetpack their way toward an enemy ship.
Think it would be best to leave it as its own thing. I.e. instead of attacking, perform the boarding action and roll 2 black dice (meaning close range only). If you rolled at least 1 crit, search for the crew crit and give it to them. No damage otherwise.
Especially if its a Flotilla specific thing it shouldnt be a normal attack. Otherwise youre giving flotillas black dice lol
This is pretty much what I was saying. If it was flotilla specific, close range seems fine. If it was an OR upgrade, it'd have to be range 1 to balance it. The only other difference I had is that in the unlikely event there are no crew crits left, the successful boarding does a single face down damage instead of the face up crew card.
Think it would be best to leave it as its own thing. I.e. instead of attacking, perform the boarding action and roll 2 black dice (meaning close range only). If you rolled at least 1 crit, search for the crew crit and give it to them. No damage otherwise.
Especially if its a Flotilla specific thing it shouldnt be a normal attack. Otherwise youre giving flotillas black dice lol
This is pretty much what I was saying. If it was flotilla specific, close range seems fine. If it was an OR upgrade, it'd have to be range 1 to balance it. The only other difference I had is that in the unlikely event there are no crew crits left, the successful boarding does a single face down damage instead of the face up crew card.
My question why should it be flotilla's? They seam to be the last ship you want to be boarding another compared to something like the ISD who has the stormtroopers on board to do the attack. Or are you saying it for a balance reason only?
Less boarding, more Avenger from hyperspace!! XD
My question why should it be flotilla's? They seam to be the last ship you want to be boarding another compared to something like the ISD who has the stormtroopers on board to do the attack. Or are you saying it for a balance reason only?
I'm saying if it's folitlla only, close range would be fine for my idea of the mechanics, but if you make it range 1 only, and an OR upgrade, then flotillas can still use it the same way (albeit closer range), without taking the option away from larger ships. That said, very few ships would be willing to give up the OR slot (or the points) if they're not a flotilla, especially when it requires such close range.
The idea of giving it to a flotilla is balance, because they can't dish out severe close range firepower inherently. This essentially gives them a fluffy combat option beyond floating around behind squadron balls. It's essentially refitting them as boarding specialists. It's not inconceivable that you'd have a few platoons of stormtroopers aboard a Gozanti, after all.
Only viable if we have a 3rd unique Vader, as a boarding party, that insta-kills a ship.
With his art from his Crew Upgrade in X-Wing and as an officer upgrade. Not sure about the whole insta-kills a ship though.
Might as well throw in my 2-cents.
If "Boarding Party" were made a single-use crew card (use it once and then it's discarded) that allowed you to discard an upgrade (maybe a crew or officer if I were to narrow it down) from an enemy ship and triggers off of a critical effect, that I can get behind 100%. It's thematic, it shakes up gameplay, it's cool, and it seems fair.
What I can't get behind or support is having a boarding party upgrade or ability that allows someone to take control of the opponent's ship. Yes, we've seen it done in the movies and shows multiple times. Yes, we've seen boarding parties take control of ships (sometimes questioning how one small attack force takes control of an entire capital ship, but meh). But this is one of those times where gameplay needs to trump fluff.
An ability like that greatly throws off the balance of the game. If someone takes control of their opponent's ship (even just small-base ship or Flotilla), they're removing an entire ship from their opponent's side of the board while simultaneously going over their fleet point-cost limit. They're not just taking the ship's firepower, they're gaining an extra activation in their fleet, a ship's actions, and squadron values with it.
Gaining control of opponent's ships also brings in a whole new mess with who scores points for stolen ships.
TLDR: One-time use Boarding Party crew upgrade that discards an opponent's upgrade seems good/fun. One that lets you take control of an opponent's ship (thus gaining an activation, more commands, and more squadron commands) is bad.
Might as well throw in my 2-cents.
If "Boarding Party" were made a single-use crew card (use it once and then it's discarded) that allowed you to discard an upgrade (maybe a crew or officer if I were to narrow it down) from an enemy ship and triggers off of a critical effect, that I can get behind 100%. It's thematic, it shakes up gameplay, it's cool, and it seems fair.
What I can't get behind or support is having a boarding party upgrade or ability that allows someone to take control of the opponent's ship. Yes, we've seen it done in the movies and shows multiple times. Yes, we've seen boarding parties take control of ships (sometimes questioning how one small attack force takes control of an entire capital ship, but meh). But this is one of those times where gameplay needs to trump fluff.
An ability like that greatly throws off the balance of the game. If someone takes control of their opponent's ship (even just small-base ship or Flotilla), they're removing an entire ship from their opponent's side of the board while simultaneously going over their fleet point-cost limit. They're not just taking the ship's firepower, they're gaining an extra activation in their fleet, a ship's actions, and squadron values with it.
Gaining control of opponent's ships also brings in a whole new mess with who scores points for stolen ships.
TLDR: One-time use Boarding Party crew upgrade that discards an opponent's upgrade seems good/fun. One that lets you take control of an opponent's ship (thus gaining an activation, more commands, and more squadron commands) is bad.
I agree that if they are able to capture it and then use it that could easily throw off the balance of the game. However a different game that I play sometimes (B5 Wars) you can capture a ship however it is not able to be used for anything but maneuvering or escaping (running away) I could see something like this and it be doable just have it count as destroyed as it is captured and then flees the battle. I am not sure I like the one time use as that does not take into account that some ships carry a lot more (as in 1000X or maybe more) troops than others, but not sure how you would go about game balance.