So, I'm a little disappointed after we played through the Story Mission "Freedom Fighters" from our extended TBG campaign. Spoilers ahead - so no peeking, if you're a piece of Rebel scum.

This one plays very differently if the rebels are spread out throughout the map.

There's really little chance for the boss to escape. Davith can practically get from one end of the map to the other with Move + 2 strain + 1 strain for Force Speed, so there aren't really many places to hide, especially when the rebels can place doors to cut off some areas.

SWIA033 Freedom Fighters .

What did the rebels do to take that much time? I think they deserved what they got for not progressing the mission earlier.

This one plays very differently if the rebels are spread out throughout the map.

There's really little chance for the boss to escape. Davith can practically get from one end of the map to the other with Move + 2 strain + 1 strain for Force Speed, so there aren't really many places to hide, especially when the rebels can place doors to cut off some areas.

SWIA033 Freedom Fighters .

What did the rebels do to take that much time? I think they deserved what they got for not progressing the mission earlier.

Also, I wounded Davith as the second Hero, and then he just slows to a crawl with a speed of 3 and no Force Speed... Plus, I "herded" the Rebels down into the bottom left corner for the last citizen, so they were more or less down there all of them, giving ample escape choices... But againn, that's just strategy - not what disappointed me...

I mean, sounds like you simply outplayed the Rebels this time. It happens.

I think Bossk should've made a victory dance to make you happier about winning.

I think Bossk should've made a victory dance to make you happier about winning.

Heh, yeah, that might have changed things... I've just started caring less about winning and more about creating a fun play experience for all players - incl. myself. Completely one-sided missions aren't fun for anyone, so I try to avoid that. That's also why Elso still gets to play with the Radiant Holocron, even though they lost the mission - no point in having cards if we never get to play with them. Same thing with Bossk - the one chance I got, and he didn't even matter..

Oh well, beggars can't be choosers. Next up is High Moon - I'm choosing flavorful open groups this time. Finally I get to pound them with Banthas and Tusken Raiders..

I mean, sounds like you simply outplayed the Rebels this time. It happens.

It does. It's just not always a fun experience - in my games at least.

Oh well, beggars can't be choosers. Next up is High Moon - I'm choosing flavorful open groups this time. Finally I get to pound them with Banthas and Tusken Raiders..

High Moon? Jyn's side mission? That's one of the mission that I'd recommend to heavily modify the mission rules (especially troops & mission triggers)

My experience playing that mission:

This one plays very differently if the rebels are spread out throughout the map.

There's really little chance for the boss to escape. Davith can practically get from one end of the map to the other with Move + 2 strain + 1 strain for Force Speed, so there aren't really many places to hide, especially when the rebels can place doors to cut off some areas.

SWIA033 Freedom Fighters .

What did the rebels do to take that much time? I think they deserved what they got for not progressing the mission earlier.

Absurd.

If the Rebels are spread out, they aren't rescuing anyone. To rescue someone it is required that there not be an Imperial near. If you are able to split everyone up to kill everything on the map and rescue everyone, then you have seriously messed up some rules because the game doesn't work that way unless the Imperials are intentionally trying extremely hard to lose.

The only way for the Rebels to win this is if they know the mission ahead of time and door off Bossk. Anything else and yes, as the OP said, he will simply run away, which is exactly what happened when I first played it as Rebel. When I played as Imperial the Rebels had the "smart idea" to split up, which meant Bossk never even showed up because the Rebels ran out of time before rescuing prisoners.

I mean, sounds like you simply outplayed the Rebels this time. It happens.

Bespin missions are broken. The Imperial player needs to be intentionally trying to lose in order to lose. You're not even playing a competitive game when you play Bespin, you have to turn into a GM and just pretend the players are "winning"... "oh wow, look, you guys are REALLY amazing, you TOTALLY beat me with your cunning plans, great skill and a bit of luck, good on you! We TOTALLY weren't just pointlessly rolling dice to a pre-determined victory which I was intentionally giving you, you REALLY earned it." *Add Trump gestures to taste.*

The initial group figures are not within 2 spaces to prevent the prisoners from escaping, so the imperials need to move before they can guard anyone. The rebels can free one during the first activation if they wish. The rebels have activation advantage due to Lando, and can wait until the imperials come closer, then defeat most of them, then rescue the other two prisoners on round 2.

Crowding one door may be a working strategy, but it isn't if the rebels have Fenn.

I need to play this again to see other strategies.

Oh well, beggars can't be choosers. Next up is High Moon - I'm choosing flavorful open groups this time. Finally I get to pound them with Banthas and Tusken Raiders..

High Moon? Jyn's side mission? That's one of the mission that I'd recommend to heavily modify the mission rules (especially troops & mission triggers)

My experience playing that mission:

High moon (Jyn's red side mission)

Jyn activates first, strain-move 2 to get to the comlink

Action #1 to interact & call out Szark

She passes the eyeball/insight test, bam free shot to Szark (Attack #1)

Action #2 to shoot Szark (Attack #2)

Szark is now heavily damaged. As Imperial I can either:

1) activate another unit -> other Rebels will move up and kill Szark

2) activate Szark and spend threats to heal -> Bam Jyn's quickdraw triggers and Szark is dead (Attack #3)

Gunslinger+ (lv.3 Sporting blaster + mod) + (another lv.1/2 pistol + mod) + Cheap shot +Diala's Force Adept reroll support means she can hit like 7+ dmg per attack

Game over on round 1

Oh well, beggars can't be choosers. Next up is High Moon - I'm choosing flavorful open groups this time. Finally I get to pound them with Banthas and Tusken Raiders..

High Moon? Jyn's side mission? That's one of the mission that I'd recommend to heavily modify the mission rules (especially troops & mission triggers)

My experience playing that mission:

High moon (Jyn's red side mission)

Jyn activates first, strain-move 2 to get to the comlink

Action #1 to interact & call out Szark

She passes the eyeball/insight test, bam free shot to Szark (Attack #1)

Action #2 to shoot Szark (Attack #2)

Szark is now heavily damaged. As Imperial I can either:

1) activate another unit -> other Rebels will move up and kill Szark

2) activate Szark and spend threats to heal -> Bam Jyn's quickdraw triggers and Szark is dead (Attack #3)

Gunslinger+ (lv.3 Sporting blaster + mod) + (another lv.1/2 pistol + mod) + Cheap shot +Diala's Force Adept reroll support means she can hit like 7+ dmg per attack

Game over on round 1

Hmm, good point - I think I've read other people having experienced the same thing. What would you suggest I change? My first and simplest thought is simply moving Szark's deployment point one square right/east on the map, making it slightly more risky to try to hit him.. at that point, he's 7 squares away from Jyn. She can still take her shots, but the odds of missing might dissuade her. At least, my Rebel players are very concerned with not missing, even at the slightest risk. I think that's the solution that tampers the least with the rest of the mission... Any ideas?

Moving it 1 space to the right/east will not work because there's a door there and it's already as deep as possible

What I've attempted (but not thoroughly playtested), kind of works:

Remove the "test eyeball = free shot" (i.e. shot #1)

Upgrade rStorm, rIO and rE-Web to eStorm, eIO, and eE-Web

Add extra HP to Szark (i.e. change to "Apply additional Health equal to three times the threat level to Szark."), UNLESS you have " Restorative Supplies ", then leave it still as "twice the threat level"

Basically to make it such that a Round 1 victory is impossible and Rebels will be heavily punished (wounded really fast) if they try doing that

Last time I played with my upgraded troops it came down to the last dice roll: Rebel Fenn need to hit 4 damage to win -> rolled 3 -> I wounded Fenn -> Imperial victory, but 1 more damage from Fenn and it'd be Rebel victory

The point is, it's much easier to make Imperial overpowered then go easy on Rebels vs. make Imperial underpowered then trying to come back...unless you guys are playing cutthroat which I never do - leave the cutthroat play style to skirmish

On 12/31/2016 at 4:42 AM, a1bert said:

The initial group figures are not within 2 spaces to prevent the prisoners from escaping, so the imperials need to move before they can guard anyone. The rebels can free one during the first activation if they wish. The rebels have activation advantage due to Lando, and can wait until the imperials come closer, then defeat most of them, then rescue the other two prisoners on round 2.

Crowding one door may be a working strategy, but it isn't if the rebels have Fenn.

I need to play this again to see other strategies.

Sorry for a bit of a necro here, but my group (I am Imperials) just played this mission last night and the way you phrase something here made me wonder if we have played the mini-campaign wrong. You state, definitively that "[t]he rebels have activation advantage due to Lando." However, unless I have missed something, its entirely possible to get to this mission in the campaign without having earned Lando, correct? The rebels I was playing against did not have the option of deploying him (or so we thought unless we have played something wrong).

Yes, it is possible the rebels lose the first mission and do not earn Lando, but the first mission is quite easy for the rebels.

But, an ally is not really needed in Freedom Fighters. It was just another example of where activation advantage helps the rebels a lot.

Thanks for the response. I don't find comments that a mission is "quite easy" and it was only hard because "maybe the rebels didn't think of that" extremely helpful because it assumes the Rebels have perfect knowledge, which they usually don't. While it is apparent to the Imperial player that "rush to the west door" is a viable strategy for which the Imperials have little defense, the rebels have no way of knowing that the first time they play the mission, and there are plenty of other missions where advancing that aggressively is asking for a TPK. I don't know I would classify it as a play mistake that the rebels failed to exploit an advantage they had no way of knowing they had.

I am playing as the Imperials in Bespin, and the Rebels are a not particularly close 0-3. We are more or less equally experienced at IA, and its the first time for everyone through this campaign. While they still enjoy IA, this is easily their least favorite campaign.

I think a lot of the talk about whether a particular mission is "balanced" assumes multiple plays. Our group has concluded that, when its everyone's first time on a mission, IA skews pretty heavily Imperial (especially on non-side missions, and ESPECIALLY in finales). That's just the nature of how important some of the hidden information is. Unfortunately, my game group is not particularly interested in revisiting older campaigns, yet, because we are still behind in playing all of the released campaigns, so I'm not sure if we will ever be able to appreciate some of the older missions in this manner.

13 minutes ago, carolina_bryan said:

Thanks for the response. I don't find comments that a mission is "quite easy" and it was only hard because "maybe the rebels didn't think of that" extremely helpful because it assumes the Rebels have perfect knowledge, which they usually don't.

You misunderstood. Once the rebels open the door in Reclamation, they know the IP gets threat and they know the IP didn't get an optional deployment, just a few groups that are not enough to wound or withdraw a hero. All the information is there. As long as they open the door (and have dealt with the other cams except those 2) before end of round 5, the rebels almost certainly win.

I'm not sure what happens if the rebels open the west door first though. All three times the rebels (different groups) have left it for last.

Which class deck are you using, what are the heroes, their class cards and items they have purchased? The usual rebel mistakes is to buy multiple marginal upgrades instead of a single good weapon (or saving credits for better ones), or class cards that do not combo that well, or heroes that do not synergize that well. (Also, usually the first round should be spent clearing the imperial troops as efficiently as possible.)

Although these are more strategic than face-to-face games, perhaps take a look at my two PBF Bespin Gambit campaigns: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/218205/a1berts-imperial-assault-play-forum-campaigns .

On 12/30/2016 at 1:15 PM, GyldenDamgaard said:

I've just started caring less about winning and more about creating a fun play experience for all players - incl. myself.

I hear ya! Now I often change a few things and do some play testing ahead of time to make things more fun from a thematic point of view, like including some allies/villains not planed in the mission set-up. As an imperial player, I'd rather create a fun experience for everyone (including myself) and loose a mission than beating the crap out of the rebels and ending playing against myself in the garage (which I also do and I'm still undefeated so I don't mind losing when I play with my friends).

Let me preface this by saying, I'm not trying to be combative or snarky. I know you help the community a lot, and it is recognized and appreciated. Only stating this because I don't post often, sarcasm or hostility can be implied on forums, especially between folks who don't interact often.

Having said that, no, I didn't misunderstand. Your example of "all the information is there" includes numerous hypotheticals (if they went this way instead of that way, if they have dealt with the other cams by round five) that didn't occur in our playthrough. I was present at the table while they were talking strategy. They are good players, one of whom ran, and won, two campaigns as the Imperial side. It was clear from there discussions that the possibility of a hidden "gotcha" was making them overly cautious. I find this to be the rule, rather than the exception, for most first play throughs, and this skews the game toward the Imperials.

14 minutes ago, a1bert said:

Which class deck are you using, what are the heroes, their class cards and items they have purchased? The usual rebel mistakes is to buy multiple marginal upgrades instead of a single good weapon (or saving credits for better ones), or class cards that do not combo that well, or heroes that do not synergize that well. (Also, usually the first round should be spent clearing the imperial troops as efficiently as possible.)

Although these are more strategic than face-to-face games, perhaps take a look at my two PBF Bespin Gambit campaigns: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/218205/a1berts-imperial-assault-play-forum-campaigns .

I think this just highlights why the game, on first play throughs, can skew towards the Imperials, because these are traps that are hard to avoid even by experienced Rebel players. Although the Rebels certainly make some attempts to synergize, its often not immediately apparent on a first play through what will be synergistic and what will not. Likewise, what is a "marginal" upgrade versus a really "good" one is often not super obvious. Because our play time is relatively limited (we start at 6:30 and try to be done by 10:00 at the latest), there just isn't enough time for a mathematical analysis of all the abilities and upgrades. A lot of it, even with good players is "this sounds/looks cool." Most of the players I know, even good players, learn their character relatively well, but often say they would've have built them differently with the benefit of hindsight. This is even more so for cross-character synergy. I personally wish the game was a little more forgiving in this regard because a large part of why I like this game is theme. I don't care if its not optimal, if I am playing Daveth, I'm going to save up 3xp and buy his lightsaber so he has it for most of the campaign. I want my jedi to have a lightsaber because . . . lightsabers.

I think pointing people to your PBF threads just assumes a level of analysis and attention to detail that doesn't I exist at most tables, certainly not ours. I think you are projecting your thorough knowledge of the game onto players, who, while they know the rules well, do not have player abilities or upgrade decks, and their respective synergies, memorized.

Maybe I'll amend my conclusion to this: If you are in a play group with relatively limited play time (we play one scenario every two weeks, and don't spend any time between sessions talking strategy or otherwise analyzing the game) where everyone is playing a mission for the first time, my opinion is that the missions will generally tend to skew Imperial based on the hidden information and other traps rebel players can fall into.

Ultimately, I think we're all pretty well aware of the fact that campaign is pretty swingy.

I don't think that there is an end all/be all strategy to any mission.

I think that as players get more experience in the game they'll make better decisions based on previous successes and failures, but it's also possible that this can work against them, too (for instance, in Forest Ambush when the victory condition for the Empire changes after a certain moment, possibly collapsing the Rebels' strategy).

@carolina_bryan , I'm curious how the rest of this campaign ends up going for you guys.

No problem. A few notes:

- I know it's not the same to play good imperial player and play good rebel player. (Although playing IP enough gives you an understanding what would work best for the rebels - itemwise and abilitywise.)

There are also a few good items from Jabba's Realm that make the life of the rebels easier, such as Bacta Pump (and Bacta Infusion), and I have extreme trouble playing against MHD-19 (Bacta Radiator and out-of-turn recover for other heroes, and stimming them for focused in early missions).

- I also know it's not the same to play at the table and PBF. Like I said, PBF is more strategic, but also requires experience. Not having a time pressure to finish doesn't make good rebel players. Playing against a good imperial player makes good rebel players. (or it should)

- Unfortunately I think your group hit the biggest negative of minicampaigns: they are too short to really get to know the heroes and thus it's not easy to decide which class cards to get. (One reason for my extended versions.) Everyone gets XP at an increased rate, so you can make bigger mistakes earlier. Allowing to 'respec' XP would probably help.

- The rebels losing the first mission will probably cause a larger snowball in Bespin (and Return to Hoth) than in core or Twin Shadows. I have not played the other finale yet, so can't say how easy that will be.

- Like suggested, if the rebels are losing a lot, then the IP can play more thematically, but it's again made harder by the small number of missions in a minicampaign.

I'm really enjoying Pasi's pbf of Bespin, and would certainly follow his extended format when I run it for my tabletop group.

i find Unions issues with Bespin to be exaggerated, but based in some truth. Some missions are hard, but not completely unbearable.

in the end there are 5 (ish) players trying to have fun playing a game.

if anyone isn't try then to discover why, and make adjustments to best make the game as fun for everyone involved as possible.

as always, YMMV

On 12/31/2016 at 1:23 AM, Union said:

When I played as Imperial the Rebels had the "smart idea" to split up, which meant Bossk never even showed up because the Rebels ran out of time before rescuing prisoners.

We played that mission 2 days ago and this is exactly what happened. The group of rebel heroes consisted of Davith, Mak, Gideon and Verena. Lando was also brought in thinking that the extra activation could help. Imperial player used Nemesis class deck and dropped IG-88 for 3 threat right from the start. Open group also consisted of 0-0-0, elite trandoshans, elite Weequay and regular HK droids. With "Prepare the ambush" and "ring leader", IG-88 could move up to 4 spaces (when activated as the first imperial unit of the round) and perform 2 attacks if needed. Brutal!

Rebels split in two groups : Lando, Gideon and Verena went left while Mak and Davith climbed the stairs on the right side. Rebels rescued 3 out of 4 captured civilians without much trouble but failed to rescue the last one. BY the end of the mission, Rebels lost Lando. Verena and Gideon were withdrawn (wounded twice) while Davith was wounded once. Mak remained healthy serving as a sniper. So he pretty much stayed away (at least 4 spaces away) killing enemies with No escape.

By the end of round 6, the heroes had proceed to open the last door, but that is when Gideon died. Usually when we hit the round timer, we continue the mission anyway while marking down the mission as an imperial victory. But this time, we did not as it seems the rebels had no real chances at all, especially with only 2 figures left on the board (Mak and Davith) and considering IG-88 was still on the board with 3 damages only thanks to his ability to heal. Now add on top Bossk (when he would have showned up later) who can also heal at the end of each round ...

Splitting the heroes was a bad idea and bringing Lando too considering the extra threat (Imperial player dropping IG-88 and regular HK droids (with their re-rolls ability) as an optional deployment right from the start did not help the rebels). Aside from how the rebels/imperial players actually play that mission, I think Nemesis makes it even harder for the rebels at that stage of the campaign (With the right cards, imperial player gets a 9 threat discount on villains at the start of the mission.)

I thînk if I am following the thread (tough bc some sarcasm maybe?) this mission is hard for rebels?

My group had rebels win this Turn 4. And we aren't very good. We have lost every story mission and won every side mission. We also won by splitting up. This just seem to contradict what the other posts are saying so I wanted to share how we did it.

We had 3 doors open and 3 citizens rescued after 1st activation of turn 2. And I think there might have only been 1 misstep/better play possible by the IP at this point.

gideon, Jyn, fen, garkhan, ally.

Gideon helped Garkhan and Fen move with master stroke. Garkhan charged, attacked, killed guy at his door. Jyn doubl moved to farthest door. Fen moved to middle door (using tactical move). Ally went up stairs.

Tradoshians by ugnaught moved to intercept ally. Ugnaught moved for fen. All others went after Jyn (Jyn really frustrates my IP so this is a psychological thing). Jyn ate 3 activations of his guys bc he saw his nuisance isolated and far from home.

turn 2 fen activates 1st opens door, triggers Lobo (door shuts 3/4 guys away from Jyn). Fen moves with tactics and surge to door closest to middle door and 2nd action to open it. 2/4 citizens secured.

IP activation, with no chance of getting to Garkhan activates to now move to and attack fen. Garkhan activates, opens door gets 3/4 citizen moves down main hall towards all the action.

Resolve some attacks go to turn 3. Jyn kills ghamorian. Strains to close others behind door. Opens farthest cell. Bosk comes out.

gharkin charges bosk after his action, attacks again. Gideon activates (bc of tight corridor Bosk can only move into a space still adjacent to gharkin) gharkin is commanded to attack twice.

everyone else resolves.

turn 4 gharkin activates and kills bosk.

initially IP activations could have been spent putting everyone at doors, but players were disrupting that and it's not a vacuum. Gharkin was definitely clearing his door. Fen could have had to waste an action to clear an enemy at his 1st door and not get to the 2nd, but you're still looking at 2/4 on start of turn 2 with Jyn isolated with just one ghamorrean. I think it still turns out very similar just with the final target up top instead of down at the bottom.