8 hours ago, Brikhause said:

I am not trying to casually dismiss it at all. It is fierce no doubt and many squadron builds will struggle against it. I am just saying it is one dimensional in that you have to have Escort squadrons to make it work. You also have to then invest heavily in such squadrons. 64 points is a lot, that is almost half your squadron allotment and you have to keep those escorts together which can make their targets limited and predictable.

You do make a good point, but....... Daddy likes his X-Wings...... I also fly them with Nora(She literally is the bomb) and BCC and Toran F. So the the xwings really become a dual threat; great at anti-squadron, can threaten a ship and bonus stupid hard to kill. Meanwhile my 2 MC30's are circling in for the kill..... Rebels are so fun to play!

Yeah, X-Wings may not be the best bombers, but they are bombers. I love X-Wings, and a lot of times I'm trying to decide between a fighter screen or a bomber wing, and I look at my X-Wings. Por que no los dos?

Counterpoint:

In my round 2 of a CC I went up against a:

-Biggs

-Jan

-Wedge

-4x XWing

and annihilated it over 2.5 rounds between good AA rolls on a glad2 ISD2 and my own anti-squadron list of:

Zertik

Bossk

2x Defender

Mauler

Tempest

Jumpmaster

Lambda

(Jonus)

Boosted by a Chirpy Vector

Durable, yeah, but not unkillable, even by an alpha strike on Jan.

(Would have played it differently had he brought a GH - but I think that would have just resulted in a focus firing on the GH ((with Jonus)) and then a tarpitting.)

Eggzavier, what were your upgrades on the ships?

Relevant to AS fire? Zero - just good rolling on 2 blue AA on both ships.

Anti-ship the Glad 2 was a demo with OE and APT.

The ISD is running light with ECM and LS.

There's also an Arq running around there.

And the Commander?

Our CC team ran into this monstrosity, by round 3 it looked like this:

Veteran Jan

Veteran Biggs

4 x X-wings

YT-1300

Veteran Dagger B-Wing

Veteran Green A-Wing

VCX

Veteran Nym

Gallent Haven with ECM, flight controllers, Pelta, 4 or 5 transports. I won't further describe what happened, but our team is now playing X-Wing.

13 minutes ago, Chalaceador said:

And the Commander?

Jerry

4 hours ago, Kristjan said:

Our CC team ran into this monstrosity, by round 3 it looked like this:

Veteran Jan

Veteran Biggs

4 x X-wings

YT-1300

Veteran Dagger B-Wing

Veteran Green A-Wing

VCX

Veteran Nym

Gallent Haven with ECM, flight controllers, Pelta, 4 or 5 transports. I won't further describe what happened, but our team is now playing X-Wing.

Boy. Uhh. That doesn't sound like fun. (Though Xwing is fun haha)

5 hours ago, Kristjan said:

Our CC team ran into this monstrosity, by round 3 it looked like this:

Veteran Jan

Veteran Biggs

4 x X-wings

YT-1300

Veteran Dagger B-Wing

Veteran Green A-Wing

VCX

Veteran Nym

Gallent Haven with ECM, flight controllers, Pelta, 4 or 5 transports. I won't further describe what happened, but our team is now playing X-Wing.

I mean, the squad compliment is annoying as hell, bit that list has very limited firepower. It's CC, so I have zero issue making counter lists. If you're not adapting, you're not playing the campaign right. Mauler and Fel, courtesy of their damage not being attacks, bypass GH. Start with that and build out an escort wing from there. Next up on my list would be Demo. There is nothing there that would deter or prevent a good ol' Demo nuke of GH. Here's something I threw together real quick:

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Admiral Screed ( 26 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 165 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Impetuous ( 4 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 58 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Expanded Launchers ( 13 points)
= 98 total ship cost

1 Zertik Strom ( 15 points)
1 Captain Jonus ( 16 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points)
1 Tempest Squadron ( 13 points)

On 14/2/2017 at 2:19 PM, The Rebel Fleet said:

So I was jumped by 4 Defenders and my opponent wanted to take out Wedge. Wedge suffered one damage when the 16 blue dice were done. My Imperial Opponent was a little surprised to say the least!!! OK, I was also but come on this is great! My other escort xwing suffered 3 damage total in the attack.

My Rebel Fighter ball:

-Wedge/Biggs/Jan/2 Xwing/Norra(for extra punch) also had Toran and BC in fleet for added Imperial pain and suffering!

THIS IS A THING PEOPLE!!!!!!!

Anyone one else have a Biggs story?

Edit: Defenders rolls 2black, 2blue, those 16 blue are instead 8 blue 8 black.

Yep, I was flying Jan, Biggs, 3 X-Wing as a screen, and a couple of B's + dedicated named bombers as main bombing threat. He alpha-striked me at turn 2 with 6 tie defenders activated with an ISD with EXPhangar and token. I made a mistake placing the screen too far from my B's and he could have simply engaged my B's since defender move the whole thing. But neee, why bother, he was kind of a casual player so he just moved 3 and a half to engage my screen. The result was: biggs alive with 1hp left and Jan burned both brace tokens. The rest of the escort was dead.

I invested 133 fleet points in squadrons while he just invested 96. So by the beggining of turn 3 I was completely out of the game as my bombers would simply be sweet meat for those defenders.

In my opinion biggs is utterly overrated and overpriced. While defenders, for that fleet cost , are completely game brakers. I think the people that dont play defenders all the way all the time is because they want to diversify a little bit and find out juicy challenges having fun making other squadron combos. Truth is, if you go competitive, you just need defenders.

Just my opinion. Rebels can only have that insane antisquadron roll by investing 26fp in Han or 28fp in Hera. Who needs ships, huh?

42 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Edit: Defenders rolls 2black, 2blue, those 16 blue are instead 8 blue 8 black.

Yep, I was flying Jan, Biggs, 3 X-Wing as a screen, and a couple of B's + dedicated named bombers as main bombing threat. He alpha-striked me at turn 2 with 6 tie defenders activated with an ISD with EXPhangar and token. I made a mistake placing the screen too far from my B's and he could have simply engaged my B's since defender move the whole thing. But neee, why bother, he was kind of a casual player so he just moved 3 and a half to engage my screen. The result was: biggs alive with 1hp left and Jan burned both brace tokens. The rest of the escort was dead.

I invested 133 fleet points in squadrons while he just invested 96. So by the beggining of turn 3 I was completely out of the game as my bombers would simply be sweet meat for those defenders.

In my opinion biggs is utterly overrated and overpriced. While defenders, for that fleet cost , are completely game brakers. I think the people that dont play defenders all the way all the time is because they want to diversify a little bit and find out juicy challenges having fun making other squadron combos. Truth is, if you go competitive, you just need defenders.

Just my opinion. Rebels can only have that insane antisquadron roll by investing 26fp in Han or 28fp in Hera. Who needs ships, huh?

This is contrary to what everyone else has been saying about defenders, so far they've been kinda underwhelming I hear?

Although, this makes use of their AA role best, they're not good bombers for cost. They're actually literally double the cost of a tie bomber, for even less damage, and the tie bomber is an odd comparison to the Ywing too.

Also, I've mostly rolled blanks in defender AA rolls: crit, acc, hit, blank. 1 dmg. WOW. Multiple times in a row. Was very frustrating, and you cant refill with defenders I think. No Toryn Farr to fix those bad rolls.

10 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

This is contrary to what everyone else has been saying about defenders, so far they've been kinda underwhelming I hear?

Although, this makes use of their AA role best, they're not good bombers for cost. They're actually literally double the cost of a tie bomber, for even less damage, and the tie bomber is an odd comparison to the Ywing too.

Also, I've mostly rolled blanks in defender AA rolls: crit, acc, hit, blank. 1 dmg. WOW. Multiple times in a row. Was very frustrating, and you cant refill with defenders I think. No Toryn Farr to fix those bad rolls.

I dont know who everyone else is, but im sure is not actually everyone else. Defenders are the ultimate fighter, you don't need any other thing. No struggling to get your intel in position while your screen engages your opponet screen or hunt down his dedicated bombers. No dealing with rogue rogues. The fighter minigame is over, or it will be (when people realise the inner potential of this game-braker tie defender).

It is SO good that you don't need anything else in your fleet:

• You have the numbers, deploy up to 8. Or 7+ named defender.
• You have the AA, the best AA in the game at the moment. Add that some Flight Controlers...
• You have the best speed in the game. The best. You have the alpha strike control. You have to sum up this all the previus facts, not comparing this separately with an A-wing(ie). A 3 blue dice alpha strike is not the same as a 2black 2blue dice alpha strike.
• You have one of the best and most reliable hull points. Enough to stand up for the whole game. Again, sum this up to the rest of the facts.
• And lastly, you have a 75% of dealing 1 dmg to a ship, with a 25% chance of a faceup card. 1 bomber blue dice agains ships is better that the black without bomber that rolls the YT-2400(ie). Keep summing up.

The result, for 16 points, is a beast that firstly cleans the table out of enemy fighters, strongly, you dont need a strategy, just engage them and start rolling fancy dices. And in the late game (turn 5-6) they can still be usefull with the bomber trait, picking the remains and holding up the enemy ship's AA with its reliable hull. It's an absolutely multitask beast. I promise, you don't need anything else. I've seen a guy win a regional with 6 of this. That was his 4th game in his life.

Your point is based in the luck, I'm brining you facts. A tie defender rolls 2,5 dmg average per roll, 3 with FC. The best AA in the game.
Now compare it with a ship with the same fleet points, YT-2400:

• Hull: 6 Same
• AA: 4 blue dices (2 average) 0,5 worse.
• Ship: 1 black die (0,75 average) same chance, no faceup cards.
• Speed: 4 Worse
• YT-2400 has rogue. The tremendous overrated trait named rogue, since everyone activates always all its fighters, if possible, before the squadron phase, because is better like that in a million ways that I cannont pick one to begin with. Now, you can come with a super rare situation in wich activating during the squadron phase making use of rogue trait grants you a certain advantage that can turn the tides. Please do not.

12 hours ago, xerpo said:

Edit: Defenders rolls 2black, 2blue, those 16 blue are instead 8 blue 8 black.

Yep, I was flying Jan, Biggs, 3 X-Wing as a screen, and a couple of B's + dedicated named bombers as main bombing threat. He alpha-striked me at turn 2 with 6 tie defenders activated with an ISD with EXPhangar and token. I made a mistake placing the screen too far from my B's and he could have simply engaged my B's since defender move the whole thing. But neee, why bother, he was kind of a casual player so he just moved 3 and a half to engage my screen. The result was: biggs alive with 1hp left and Jan burned both brace tokens. The rest of the escort was dead.

I invested 133 fleet points in squadrons while he just invested 96. So by the beggining of turn 3 I was completely out of the game as my bombers would simply be sweet meat for those defenders.

In my opinion biggs is utterly overrated and overpriced. While defenders, for that fleet cost , are completely game brakers. I think the people that dont play defenders all the way all the time is because they want to diversify a little bit and find out juicy challenges having fun making other squadron combos. Truth is, if you go competitive, you just need defenders.

Just my opinion. Rebels can only have that insane antisquadron roll by investing 26fp in Han or 28fp in Hera. Who needs ships, huh?

You've had much better luck with defenders than I have. It seems like every time I've used them they only manage to average about 2 damage per attack against squadrons but die to two shots from any enemy squadron.

All this talk of dice and numbers is insignificant when compared to the power of timing and escorts...

You can talk about "my luck" or "the numbers" all you want but trying to talk about how to play squadrons is extraordinary difficult.

You have to consider a much deeper layer of planning and tactics that is rarely talked about because its really hard to do it...

Initative >The amount of their squadrons > the carriers > how many squadrons will be activated this turn by commands/rogue/squadron phase combat > where do i position my squadrons in relation to all of these timings > how much damage will my escorts/squadron/scatter hero be expected to take and how this effects my plans to attack/defend against their ships/squadrons > what is my activation & timing/commands to counter their squadron commands > Now the turn is done did i properlly account for initative for next turn

Sombody might have more squadrons but an inability to activate them all over the turn, somebody might have less squadrons on the board but they yours beaten, sometimes killing Howlrunner first is the right thing to do (when she chilling w/ generic Ties ), sometimes killing Howlrunner first is the wrong thing to do (when she chilling with all the Swarm heros)....how you work this is no set thing. Sure look at the numbers and only the numbers. And in doing so overlook 50 as equally important or more important aspects to squadron play, which are again extraordinary difficult to talk about, and are more important to winning.

I can share my thoughts for killing Biggs balls. Kill Biggs, in the right way.

- In the Generic Xwing Ball shoot him down, he spreads the damage and once he falls the others are ready to fall as well

- In a Reeiken Ball shoot him down to 3 health so he doesn't die and absorb everyone elses damage. When he has moved 2-3 health around put those clowns down to 2 hp each one at a time, this reduces viable redirection. Then assist their demise with point defense, Mauler (who you will always run) and they all fall together negating the zombie mitigation because you Alpha struck Wedge and he Yavarisd you for 12-18 dice and absorbed 3-4 damage when he was dead, denying you most of another Xwings hull

I am of course bias towards 134 point squadron lists so if you are a squadron screen i have nothing useful to say besides good luck!

15 hours ago, Truthiness said:

I mean, the squad compliment is annoying as hell, bit that list has very limited firepower. It's CC, so I have zero issue making counter lists. If you're not adapting, you're not playing the campaign right. Mauler and Fel, courtesy of their damage not being attacks, bypass GH. Start with that and build out an escort wing from there. Next up on my list would be Demo. There is nothing there that would deter or prevent a good ol' Demo nuke of GH.

Don't really see how we adapt 3 turns into the campaign, the lists are set at the start, after refits we had very little points to play with once we reached 500. Another thing to keep in mind is that we had to split the best imperial squadrons over 3 players, we gave all swarm squads to one player which may have been a mistake, but he got totally rolled by the Biggs list as well. The problem we ran into against the Bigs/Jan list was that killing GH did almost nothing, in fact going after ships was pointless since we would lose any ship we sent anywhere near the Biggs monster and lose all our squadrons just trying to tie them up. That's what was so frustrating, it got to the point where we thought why even bother with ships at all? They just melt so fast and killing GH doesn't even net very many points. Had I known this build would so utterly dominate our campaign I would have just taken raiders and gozantis with max squadrons at the start. As for the Demo, our team did have one but same problem, if it commits it's dead.

13 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

You've had much better luck with defenders than I have. It seems like every time I've used them they only manage to average about 2 damage per attack against squadrons but die to two shots from any enemy squadron.

Thanks for the help here. Haha. I mean this anecdotally and in fun jest, but each time I threw those 4 A dice, I got bunch a blanks. And just people I read from on the forums.

10 hours ago, Kristjan said:

Don't really see how we adapt 3 turns into the campaign, the lists are set at the start, after refits we had very little points to play with once we reached 500. Another thing to keep in mind is that we had to split the best imperial squadrons over 3 players, we gave all swarm squads to one player which may have been a mistake, but he got totally rolled by the Biggs list as well. The problem we ran into against the Bigs/Jan list was that killing GH did almost nothing, in fact going after ships was pointless since we would lose any ship we sent anywhere near the Biggs monster and lose all our squadrons just trying to tie them up. That's what was so frustrating, it got to the point where we thought why even bother with ships at all? They just melt so fast and killing GH doesn't even net very many points. Had I known this build would so utterly dominate our campaign I would have just taken raiders and gozantis with max squadrons at the start. As for the Demo, our team did have one but same problem, if it commits it's dead.

Yeeeeup. Squadrons are good against what??? Oh right, everything.

12 hours ago, Trizzo2 said:

All this talk of dice and numbers is insignificant when compared to the power of timing and escorts...

You can talk about "my luck" or "the numbers" all you want but trying to talk about how to play squadrons is extraordinary difficult.

You have to consider a much deeper layer of planning and tactics that is rarely talked about because its really hard to do it...

Initative >The amount of their squadrons > the carriers > how many squadrons will be activated this turn by commands/rogue/squadron phase combat > where do i position my squadrons in relation to all of these timings > how much damage will my escorts/squadron/scatter hero be expected to take and how this effects my plans to attack/defend against their ships/squadrons > what is my activation & timing/commands to counter their squadron commands > Now the turn is done did i properlly account for initative for next turn

Sombody might have more squadrons but an inability to activate them all over the turn, somebody might have less squadrons on the board but they yours beaten, sometimes killing Howlrunner first is the right thing to do (when she chilling w/ generic Ties ), sometimes killing Howlrunner first is the wrong thing to do (when she chilling with all the Swarm heros)....how you work this is no set thing. Sure look at the numbers and only the numbers. And in doing so overlook 50 as equally important or more important aspects to squadron play, which are again extraordinary difficult to talk about, and are more important to winning.

I can share my thoughts for killing Biggs balls. Kill Biggs, in the right way.

- In the Generic Xwing Ball shoot him down, he spreads the damage and once he falls the others are ready to fall as well

- In a Reeiken Ball shoot him down to 3 health so he doesn't die and absorb everyone elses damage. When he has moved 2-3 health around put those clowns down to 2 hp each one at a time, this reduces viable redirection. Then assist their demise with point defense, Mauler (who you will always run) and they all fall together negating the zombie mitigation because you Alpha struck Wedge and he Yavarisd you for 12-18 dice and absorbed 3-4 damage when he was dead, denying you most of another Xwings hull

I am of course bias towards 134 point squadron lists so if you are a squadron screen i have nothing useful to say besides good luck!

One big problem there. You can't use a zombie as a damage sink. Kill Biggs, and he can still redirect damage, just not onto himself.

On 2/14/2017 at 10:05 AM, BergerFett said:

biggs-wiggs?

Biggsy wiggsy! The overall combination has been fantastic in our CT CC league

39 minutes ago, Destraa said:

One big problem there. You can't use a zombie as a damage sink. Kill Biggs, and he can still redirect damage, just not onto himself.

Actually, you can. Nothing in the rules says otherwise. Escort stays in effect too. It's the same reason you can keep adding damage cards to Rieekan ships for things like Precision Strike. So long as they are still in play, you can keep piling on the damage.