Everyone's thoughts on the round times specifically. 35 for swiss might be a little tight, especially for non Aggro decks.
I love the best of 3, but winning that first game will be very important in the single elim (90 min rounds).
I'm curious to see if the 35 min time limit on Swiss will get revisited. That is a punishing pace for control/mill to have to play at.
Edited by Spector1331I don't understand this decision about time limits. The beauty of this game - deck diversity - is limited by this.
If I read correctly, tournament rules are different regarding tracking dice for the same upgrades (e.g. character with two copies of Lightsaber).
Also, decks with Endless ranks are favored in the case of going to time.
If you're referring to the unique identification method on page 4, they just mean when making a deck list don't write "Lightsaber" instead of "Kyle Ren's Lightsaber" since that card exists elsewhere.
No, I'm talking about this:
If a player has two copies of the same upgrade on a
character, and both of those upgrade dice are in their
dice pool when they have to discard an upgrade from
play, the player can choose which die to remove and set
aside.
The first tie breaker also favors Aggro heavily. My son has a very effective Padme Mill Deck but it does almost no damage. On the plus side it does burn cards fast but the opponent can always slow the pace without being obnoxious about it so the game goes to time.
The first tie breaker also favors Aggro heavily. My son has a very effective Padme Mill Deck but it does almost no damage. On the plus side it does burn cards fast but the opponent can always slow the pace without being obnoxious about it so the game goes to time.
Agree so much.
Combine that with 35 min rounds and RIP mill decks.
Make it 45 for swiss, 100 for single elims and it helps, but they need to revisit the tiebreakers. If you play mill, and possibly even Crime Lord (to a lesser degree), and you may as well take an auto-loss if the game goes to time.
It also punishes playing lots of small characters, because you have a bigger health pool that way, and could hypothetically lose without your opponent killing any of your characters. 4 Storms at 1 health is 24 damage...
"When rolling multiple dice, a player must roll all dice simultaneously unless physically incapable of doing so"
Say you discard a card to re-roll 4 stromtrooper dice, don't you need to keep each dice specific to each trooper? So you know which dice is removed when the troop is eliminated. Can't really keep them specific to each trooper if you need to roll all 4 together
Edited by shockI think the 35 minute time limit is fine, even for mill decks. The tiebreaker definitely favors aggro decks though.
But realistically, there's no possible tiebreaker that won't favor one style of deck over another, and damage count seems to punish the fewest core mechanics.
Not too happy with the draconian rules in the event someone loses a card or dice during the day....automatic expulsion from the event.
I can see an unscrupulous person losing the first match in a 3 match per round event...then swiping a card from his opponents deck while cleaning resetting the table. Then if he's losing in the second round calling a judge that you think their is an issue with your opponents deck. Judge counts cards and see's your playing with 29. Immediate loss and since you can't find your card (safely tucked in your opponents pocket) your out.
And after the 40K CCG Finals fiasco we all know TFGs are out their willing to win at any cost.
If a guys deck is short or dice is lost AFTER the event starts they should be allowed to continue playing...with the handicap.
Now, if a person is found with extra cards in their deck (and no else is short) that would be grounds for expulsion.
I can see an unscrupulous person losing the first match in a 3 match per round event...then swiping a card from his opponents deck while cleaning resetting the table. Then if he's losing in the second round calling a judge that you think their is an issue with your opponents deck. Judge counts cards and see's your playing with 29. Immediate loss and since you can't find your card (safely tucked in your opponents pocket) your out.
Really!? You maybe need to find nicer people to play with if that's something you can genuinely envisage happening I think.
35 mins so much for my Mill deck time to go home and rethink my life
Players may sleeve their characters and battlefield, but they must use different sleeves from their deck.
Ok... why?
Optional deck cutting. No transparent sleeves, no note-taking, no draws. Bad rules are bad.
Edited by WonderWAAAGH"When rolling multiple dice, a player must roll all dice simultaneously unless physically incapable of doing so"
Say you discard a card to re-roll 4 stromtrooper dice, don't you need to keep each dice specific to each trooper? So you know which dice is removed when the troop is eliminated. Can't really keep them specific to each trooper if you need to roll all 4 together
I can see this both ways, but if you're re-rolling them all at the same time as long as you assign them immediately afterwords I'm not sure it matters. Yes that allows you to put your better dice on the ones with more health, but it it is not time wasted by performing 4 separate rolls.
No, I'm talking about this:
If a player has two copies of the same upgrade on a
character, and both of those upgrade dice are in their
dice pool when they have to discard an upgrade from
play, the player can choose which die to remove and set
aside.
Conversely this allows the ruling that they are specifically assigned to allow the opponent to target a specific die by targeting their removal at the appropriate card instead of letting the player choose the "weaker" die to discard.
So these rules combined give advantage both ways.
Players may sleeve their characters and battlefield, but they must use different sleeves from their deck.
Ok... why?
I presume just so they don't get accidentally shuffled in or discarded. I suppose you might therefore ask: "Why do they have the same card backs then?" Who knows.
Conversely this allows the ruling that they are specifically assigned to allow the opponent to target a specific die by targeting their removal at the appropriate card instead of letting the player choose the "weaker" die to discard.No, I'm talking about this:If a player has two copies of the same upgrade on a
character, and both of those upgrade dice are in their
dice pool when they have to discard an upgrade from
play, the player can choose which die to remove and set
aside.
So these rules combined give advantage both ways.
But the rules in that excerpt seem to say that the owner ('the player') chooses which die is which.
Edited by SrbaOptional deck cutting. No transparent sleeves, no note-taking, no draws. Bad rules are bad.
FFG doesn't allow transparent sleeves due to promos sometimes having a slightly different appearance than normal cards. Also this helps ceate a uniform card back. If I recall this is fairly standard for most games. Why are we complaining over this part?
FFG has never allowed note taking in their card games.
FFG has been getting away from draws in card games for awhile now (last 6 months to a year).
I'm not sure why there is an issue with any of things you listed.
Edited by Spector1331But realistically, there's no possible tiebreaker that won't favor one style of deck over another, and damage count seems to punish the fewest core mechanics.
IMO, draws would be better than forcing a tie-breaker to get a game winner.
Except then people just stall to avoid losing. There is no perfect system.
No, I'm talking about this:
If a player has two copies of the same upgrade on a
character, and both of those upgrade dice are in their
dice pool when they have to discard an upgrade from
play, the player can choose which die to remove and set
aside.
Actually, this lines up with the basic rules, which state that you only track which dice came from which character, not from which specific card.
Except then people just stall to avoid losing. There is no perfect system.
You're right there is no perfect system, but if someone is stalling that's unsportsmanlike and the TO should be able to do something about it, if someone is excessively stalling give a warning, if it happens again game loss. Something like that.
Having the short round time and a tie-breaker like this makes an entire archetype undesirable for tournament play and encourages certain strategies over others.
It may be entirely moot and games aren't going to go to time, but if a lot of games are going to time, I hope they at least revisit the Swiss round length. We've been doing 45 minute rounds and that seemed nice, so we'll see how 35 minutes does.
Another thing that is kind of weird is that in a large tournament the Swiss rounds are best of 1 but the cut (top 4 or top 8) is best of 3, that's a completely different ball game at that point.
We'll see how it goes.
If you want to cut or shuffle your opponents deck the choice is yours. I can't say I don't want you to cut and not offer. Some people don't like cutting. Typically I don't.Optional deck cutting. No transparent sleeves, no note-taking, no draws. Bad rules are bad.
FFG doesn't allow transparent sleeves due to promos sometimes having a slightly different appearance than normal cards. Also this helps ceate a uniform card back. If I recall this is fairly standard for most games. Why are we complaining over this part?
FFG has never allowed note taking in their card games.
FFG has been getting away from draws in card games for awhile now (last 6 months to a year).
I'm not sure why there is an issue with any of things you listed.
Some people just can't be satisfied I guess. Everything above is standard fair for FFG games or card games in general.
I for one am extremely happy the tournament rules give me an option of shuffling my opponent's deck. Too many times I see people just doing a pile "shuffle" and a few token overhand shuffles. I'm extremely annoyed by that but it's not like there were any rules to prevent them from doing so. Now I can just randomize their deck for them if they're not up to the task.
One thing I'm disappointed in is the Game Setup part. It says players take mulligans in "turn order", but "turn order" isn't decided until after you take mulligans...
Edited by Don_Silvarro
Very sad to see a scant 35 minute round time. One of the great things that I love about this game is the diversity of decks available, and 35 minute round times will make control decks just too much of a gamble to play with. 45 minutes would make it much more reasonable, although we haven't seen what other cards are to come in the card pool that can increase the pace of the game over just Awakenings. Something to bear in mind...
Not too happy with the draconian rules in the event someone loses a card or dice during the day....automatic expulsion from the event.
I can see an unscrupulous person losing the first match in a 3 match per round event...then swiping a card from his opponents deck while cleaning resetting the table. Then if he's losing in the second round calling a judge that you think their is an issue with your opponents deck. Judge counts cards and see's your playing with 29. Immediate loss and since you can't find your card (safely tucked in your opponents pocket) your out.
And after the 40K CCG Finals fiasco we all know TFGs are out their willing to win at any cost.
If a guys deck is short or dice is lost AFTER the event starts they should be allowed to continue playing...with the handicap.
Now, if a person is found with extra cards in their deck (and no else is short) that would be grounds for expulsion.
What happened with 40K?
Not too happy with the draconian rules in the event someone loses a card or dice during the day....automatic expulsion from the event.
I can see an unscrupulous person losing the first match in a 3 match per round event...then swiping a card from his opponents deck while cleaning resetting the table. Then if he's losing in the second round calling a judge that you think their is an issue with your opponents deck. Judge counts cards and see's your playing with 29. Immediate loss and since you can't find your card (safely tucked in your opponents pocket) your out.
And after the 40K CCG Finals fiasco we all know TFGs are out their willing to win at any cost.
If a guys deck is short or dice is lost AFTER the event starts they should be allowed to continue playing...with the handicap.
Now, if a person is found with extra cards in their deck (and no else is short) that would be grounds for expulsion.
What happened with 40K?
If he means the LCG not CCG, there was a guy who won Nationals or Worlds or something who consistently drew more cards than he was normally allowed and somehow no one caught on until he was recorded and streamed.
If he means the CCG, I'd like to know as well.
Edited by Don_SilvarroHe's talking about the former Warhammer 40k Conquest LCG at Gencon 2015. Guy who initially won the event would draw 3 cards every time he felt he was in a bad spot. When he was winning he would play straight. No one caught it until the stream was posted. He got iirc a 7 year ban from all FFG events.
Edited by Spector1331