So has anyone tried LWF on anything other than the Strikers? Looks like it could be huge on Bombers or more impressive the TIE s/f.

I was thinking of perhaps a Quickdraw like this:

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter 29

Determination 1

Fire-Control System 2

Pattern Analyzer 2

Lightweight Frame 2

Special Ops Training 0

Ship Total: 36

Perhaps with a Palp and OL run. The PA can even go to sensor Cluster to improve survival can also use a VI Backdraft in the configuration.

It works pretty great on the SF's, I suppose the only problem is if you overload them then become very costly. For 36pts you could get a strong Ryad in. I do like the build you have though I'd drop determination, it's not worth it. And if you're determined (hurr) to keep the list as costly, definitely go with sensor cluster.

I'm thinking of adding Lightweight frame to my QuickDraw squad. Something like -

QuickDraw, Rage, Baffles, Title, Lightweight Frame = 33pts

Ryad, Title (evade), Expertise = 36pts

Inquisitor, Title, Push The Limit, Autothrusters = 31pts

I know this is the suicide QuickDraw build but I have played it a few times and sometimes she can acctually survive the early game (minus shields) and that extra evade dice could be useful

It works pretty great on the SF's, I suppose the only problem is if you overload them then become very costly. For 36pts you could get a strong Ryad in. I do like the build you have though I'd drop determination, it's not worth it. And if you're determined (hurr) to keep the list as costly, definitely go with sensor cluster.

Note that with Frame they are starting to become on par in defence with Defender (lol) and potentially can become better on the offence.

I was thinking about Lightweight Frame for Punishers. It's pretty much an extra agility for them, being at only 1, and with their 9 hit points could really make them last long enough for them to be worth a look again.

The only problem is that it takes up the modification slot so it may not be better for the alpha strikers like Redline. However, Deathrain with effectively 2 agility could be a scary bomber in a list with a good closer or maybe a Decimator.

I was thinking about Lightweight Frame for Punishers. It's pretty much an extra agility for them, being at only 1, and with their 9 hit points could really make them last long enough for them to be worth a look again.

The only problem is that it takes up the modification slot so it may not be better for the alpha strikers like Redline. However, Deathrain with effectively 2 agility could be a scary bomber in a list with a good closer or maybe a Decimator.

If you could somehow get a free 3 or 4 points on the punishers, that would get them to competitive viability. I'd like to see how well it survives with the LWF on it though, and know if it lasts long enough where more than one type of Munitions on it becomes worthwhile.

+1 green dice? Huge?

Hah

Seriously, i do not believe lightweight frames are worth the points under any circumstance

Except maybe if you can somehow generate multiple defensive modifiers, which none of the 3 can without external help

Not even Deathfire? Conner's, Extra Munitions and LWF brings him to 25 points. Not too expensive for a solid control piece, and LWF means that there's a good chance he'll survive to drop both nets.

Backdraft (37)

"Backdraft" (37) - TIE/SF Fighter

Expertise (4), Fire Control System (2), Sensor Cluster (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

I found out first hand that this build hits harder and has more survivability than Juke X/7 Vessery one on one. This has been the only S/F build I've been annoyed playing against. Expertise allows him to keep the focus for defense, Sensor Cluster means he's always going to have at least 1 evade, and LWF gives Backdraft probably an extra 3-4 health a game.

Not even Deathfire? Conner's, Extra Munitions and LWF brings him to 25 points. Not too expensive for a solid control piece, and LWF means that there's a good chance he'll survive to drop both nets.

lwf does not dramatically improve your chances

It barely makes even the slightest improvement at all

Besides it wastes,lrs slot for missiles/vessery support

I think it would be best used on TIE Shuttles. You don't need the mod slot for anything else on them, and the added green may save a damage or two.

I've been playing with a backdraft:

Backdraft (34)

-LWF

-VI

-Title

-Pattern Analyzer

-FCS

It has improved survivability, but I'm not certain that it's a huge improvement. Best mod for the ship, but probably the last thing I would spend points on (note I would still spend points on it).

Quickdraw

title

Lightweight

Fire control

Expertise

Pattern analyzer

Backdraft

Title

Lightweight

Pattern analyzer

Vi

Collision

Duchess

Lightweight

Expertise

Adaptive ailerons

Ran this list lastnight with pretty good success

Quickdraw

title

Lightweight

Fire control

Expertise

Pattern analyzer

Backdraft

Title

Lightweight

Pattern analyzer

Vi

Collision

Duchess

Lightweight

Expertise

Adaptive ailerons

Ran this list lastnight with pretty good success

Lightweight frame is an odd one. I'm not sure it's never any good - Ficklegreendice is, as you may guess, somewhat dismissive of green dice as a means of not dying.

That said, that doesn't mean he's wrong about its problems:

1. It takes up a modification slot
2. It's not free
3. It has a limited selection of ships which can take it

The problem with 1 and 3 is that most of the ships which can take it already have a preferred modification, and few cheap ships want to add 2 points to their price tag, even if they end up taking one extra hit to kill.

The ships which can take it:

• TIE Bomber with Missiles - suffers from 1 and 2 - Bombers with ordnance want either Long Range Scanners or Guidance Chips. The only ordnance which can largely ignore it is Advanced Proton Torpedoes, which means the only pilot who might consider it is Major Rhymer. Rhymer with Expertise, APTs, Extra Munitions and Lightweight Frame is bloody expensive, though, and - annoyingly - not all that much more shooty than a swarm leader or Fenn Rau/Talonbane Cobra at close range - I wouldn't consider this a great idea.
• TIE Bomber with Bombs - Bomb-carrying TIE Bombers might get some use out of it, I guess, since they don't need their modification slot, but they're only a 20-odd-point unit, so slapping a 2 point modification on them is a big ask. Deathfire is the only guy I might consider it for, so if you've taken a connor net-laden deathfire, lightweight frame isn't bad.
• "TIE Shuttle" title TIE Bomber - Don't need ordnance modifications, which is good. However, the most common shuttle I've seen is the fleet officer/systems officer/cool hand combination Tomax Bren - fleet officer's stress token means that whilst Twin Ion Engines MkII aren't mandatory, they're a bloody good investment and cheaper than lightweight frame. A Major Rhymer/Snap Shot/Tactician shuttle makes for a very efficient stress-sniper, though, and is expensive enough to justify protecting.
• TIE Phantom - Really? It's hard enough to persuade anyone to consider taking Stygium Particle Accelerators, let alone this thing. Advanced Cloaking Device is staple-gunned to the named Phantoms for a reason.
• TIE Punisher - Same problem as the TIE bomber, really. At least the Punisher is expensive enough, and tough enough, that it should justify 2 points on a slight toughness boost - in the course of taking 9 damage, you should get an evade at least once on that extra die, and even at long range you'll still get the extra die against a 3-dice attack. The problem, once again, is guidance chips and long-range scanners. The only exception is deathrain - again, expensive and with no auto-choice modification, I'd at least give him a try.
• TIE Striker - Well, it's clearly meant for it. But - as noted - is it good enough? At 2 points, on a 4-hull ship, there's a good chance the die will come up dry twice and you'll get nowt for your money. Duchess is probably okay for it, because it's cheap enough, and that plus Veteran Instincts gets you a nice Omega Leader-price bracket "pocket ace" with PS10, a 3-dice attack and sort-of-free-boost.
• Special Forces TIE - Again, no obvious modification, and enough durability that you'll get to roll that dice quite a few times. Quickdraw with Rage & Baffle I'd avoid - she's a good ship, but essentially a kamikaze - spending extra points on a ship you know will be the first to die is probably throwing good money after bad. If she's built as a 'mini-dengar', it should be worth a look. Backdraft, on the other hand, is a possibility. with Wired, Primed Thrusters, Collision Detector, and Lightweight Frame, you can essentially play in dense debris to your heart's content, and anyone getting a clean shot, or a range 1 shot, still gets 4 dice with focus rerolls to stop them. He's not a TIE defender, but he's tricksy enough that I think he could be a nice addition to a squad.

So - the short version of the above - I'd consider trying Lightweight Frame on the following:

• Deathfire (with bombs)
• Major Rhymer (with Snap Shot & Tactician)
• Deathrain (with bombs)
• Duchess
• Backdraft
• Quickdraw (provided not using Electronic Baffle)

Lightweight frame is an odd one. I'm not sure it's never any good - Ficklegreendice is, as you may guess, somewhat dismissive of green dice as a means of not dying.

That said, that doesn't mean he's wrong about its problems:

1. It takes up a modification slot
2. It's not free
3. It has a limited selection of ships which can take it

The problem with 1 and 3 is that most of the ships which can take it already have a preferred modification, and few cheap ships want to add 2 points to their price tag, even if they end up taking one extra hit to kill.

The ships which can take it:

• TIE Bomber with Missiles - suffers from 1 and 2 - Bombers with ordnance want either Long Range Scanners or Guidance Chips. The only ordnance which can largely ignore it is Advanced Proton Torpedoes, which means the only pilot who might consider it is Major Rhymer. Rhymer with Expertise, APTs, Extra Munitions and Lightweight Frame is bloody expensive, though, and - annoyingly - not all that much more shooty than a swarm leader or Fenn Rau/Talonbane Cobra at close range - I wouldn't consider this a great idea.
• TIE Bomber with Bombs - Bomb-carrying TIE Bombers might get some use out of it, I guess, since they don't need their modification slot, but they're only a 20-odd-point unit, so slapping a 2 point modification on them is a big ask. Deathfire is the only guy I might consider it for, so if you've taken a connor net-laden deathfire, lightweight frame isn't bad.
• "TIE Shuttle" title TIE Bomber - Don't need ordnance modifications, which is good. However, the most common shuttle I've seen is the fleet officer/systems officer/cool hand combination Tomax Bren - fleet officer's stress token means that whilst Twin Ion Engines MkII aren't mandatory, they're a bloody good investment and cheaper than lightweight frame. A Major Rhymer/Snap Shot/Tactician shuttle makes for a very efficient stress-sniper, though, and is expensive enough to justify protecting.
• TIE Phantom - Really? It's hard enough to persuade anyone to consider taking Stygium Particle Accelerators, let alone this thing. Advanced Cloaking Device is staple-gunned to the named Phantoms for a reason.
• TIE Punisher - Same problem as the TIE bomber, really. At least the Punisher is expensive enough, and tough enough, that it should justify 2 points on a slight toughness boost - in the course of taking 9 damage, you should get an evade at least once on that extra die, and even at long range you'll still get the extra die against a 3-dice attack. The problem, once again, is guidance chips and long-range scanners. The only exception is deathrain - again, expensive and with no auto-choice modification, I'd at least give him a try.
• TIE Striker - Well, it's clearly meant for it. But - as noted - is it good enough? At 2 points, on a 4-hull ship, there's a good chance the die will come up dry twice and you'll get nowt for your money. Duchess is probably okay for it, because it's cheap enough, and that plus Veteran Instincts gets you a nice Omega Leader-price bracket "pocket ace" with PS10, a 3-dice attack and sort-of-free-boost.
• Special Forces TIE - Again, no obvious modification, and enough durability that you'll get to roll that dice quite a few times. Quickdraw with Rage & Baffle I'd avoid - she's a good ship, but essentially a kamikaze - spending extra points on a ship you know will be the first to die is probably throwing good money after bad. If she's built as a 'mini-dengar', it should be worth a look. Backdraft, on the other hand, is a possibility. with Wired, Primed Thrusters, Collision Detector, and Lightweight Frame, you can essentially play in dense debris to your heart's content, and anyone getting a clean shot, or a range 1 shot, still gets 4 dice with focus rerolls to stop them. He's not a TIE defender, but he's tricksy enough that I think he could be a nice addition to a squad.

So - the short version of the above - I'd consider trying Lightweight Frame on the following:

• Deathfire (with bombs)
• Major Rhymer (with Snap Shot & Tactician)
• Deathrain (with bombs)
• Duchess
• Backdraft
• Quickdraw (provided not using Electronic Baffle)

No Tomax with Tactician and/or Rebel captive and Crack? I think that might be worth a try, especially with both of those crew. The annoyance of shooting at it and the annoyance of not shooting at it could be worth something.

I ran Deathfire with LWF yesterday. My list was:

Deathfire

LWF

Enhanced Scopes

Extra Munitions

Conner Nets

Proximity Mines

Duchess

VI

Adaptive Ailerons

Echo

VI

Advanced Cloaking Device

RecSpec

Collision Detector

I won both of my games, and drove a Palp Shuttle off the board with a Conner Net. Deathrain actually soaked a fair bit of damage, especially when i had a focus. So, if you aren't using munitions, it makes the Punisher ok. Also, the reactions you'll get when your opponent sees a Punisher, a Phantom and a Striker on the table are golden.

No Tomax with Tactician and/or Rebel captive and Crack? I think that might be worth a try, especially with both of those crew. The annoyance of shooting at it and the annoyance of not shooting at it could be worth something.

Thing is, Snap Shot Rhymer does the same but can get two shots, and two stress, per turn. You're depending on your opponent shooting at you to double stress with the Bren build. Bren may seem like he'll do more with regening Crack Shot, but 2 2 dice shots will typically work better for damage than 1 2 dice shot.

No Tomax with Tactician and/or Rebel captive and Crack? I think that might be worth a try, especially with both of those crew. The annoyance of shooting at it and the annoyance of not shooting at it could be worth something.

Thing is, Snap Shot Rhymer does the same but can get two shots, and two stress, per turn. You're depending on your opponent shooting at you to double stress with the Bren build. Bren may seem like he'll do more with regening Crack Shot, but 2 2 dice shots will typically work better for damage than 1 2 dice shot.

I'm not relying on double stressing. If they want to get rid of him, they will have to account for taking a stress is all. A 2 die attack with crack is essentially a 3 die attack minus the bonus of hitting when the defender rolls no evades. If Rhymer shoots twice with 2 dice, the possibility of double stressing is nice, but no mods for the first shot limits damage output some, and also the fact that Rhymer moves at PS 7, so Snap Shot won't work as effectively on things that aren't high PS. At least both ships with the loadouts specified are the same amount of points, so you can try them both out in a given list and pick your favorite. I still need to try out both myself.

I won both of my games, and drove a Palp Shuttle off the board with a Conner Net. Deathrain actually soaked a fair bit of damage, especially when i had a focus. So, if you aren't using munitions, it makes the Punisher ok. Also, the reactions you'll get when your opponent sees a Punisher, a Phantom and a Striker on the table are golden.

A Phantom, a Punisher and a Striker fly into a bar?

I won both of my games, and drove a Palp Shuttle off the board with a Conner Net. Deathrain actually soaked a fair bit of damage, especially when i had a focus. So, if you aren't using munitions, it makes the Punisher ok. Also, the reactions you'll get when your opponent sees a Punisher, a Phantom and a Striker on the table are golden.

A Phantom, a Punisher and a Striker fly into a bar?

And the bar says "WOAH, A TIE PUNISHER?"