This has probably been covered, simply put, can you have ships (CR-90s or Raiders) and play them with no command dials? May seem a terrible thing, mainly not being able to slow down/speed up, but they can be issued command tokens through a variety of methods.

I am not sure what you are asking, can you clarify the question.

it is part of the round sequence of set command dials. During the ship activation you can flip over the dial and not do anything with the effect. it would be the same as not having any dials.

There are cards (damage effects) and abilities (slicer) that target command dials, so you would almost want to put them down but that does not mean you have to use them.

if it was friendly game, you can tell your opponent that you are not using your dial.

"Nebula Outskirts" says "The total number of command dials that must be assigned to each of the second players ships during each Command Phase is reduced by one". What I am asking is: can you play this objective with a ship that effectively has been assigned zero command dials? Such as a Raider/Corvette/Flotilla?

OK, The key word is "must", I do not have the card in front of me but if the keyword is must then i guess you are going to be reducing your command dials. I remember reading the card and thinking how awesome it was going to be to have an ISD with 1 command dial if you are running relentless. I did not realize the keyword was must for second player.

I agree I do not know how you would be able to effectively fly the ship without a command dial.

From reading the Command Phase section in the RR, I don't think it's illegal to assign a ship more command dials than that ship's command value. It's just generally not a good idea.

You "must" assign command dials until you've hit your command value (or command value -1 in the case of this objective) but you can keep assigning them as long as you'd like.

I do vaguely recall a card that let's you swap command dials around. You might want to assign a Command Value 1 ship two dials to allow you to use this card. Still, only really useful in pretty rare situations.

I'm assuming Nebula Outskirts is something from CC? I don't have my copy yet. Can someone include the rules here for reference?

Ordinarily, however, a ship can never have more command dials than its Command value.

LTP, page 7:

"During the 1st Command Phase, the players must assign command dials to their ships so that each ship has a number of command dials equal to its command value."

In subsequent command phases, you only assign one dial. So unless your command value decreases after the first Command Phase, you'll never have more dials than your Command value.

"During the 1st Command Phase, the players must assign command dials to their ships so that each ship has a number of command dials equal to its command value."

The wording from the Rules Reference is different.

"A ship must be assigned command dials until it has a

The wording is different, but the meaning is the same. You give a ship a number of dials equal to its command during the first Command Phase. After that, you always add a number of dials necessary to bring the total to the ship's command value in subsequent Command Phases.

If anything, this further disproves the notion of assigning a ship more dials than its Command value. It's explicitly prohibited.

Regarding the original post, I don't see anywhere in the rules that says a ship can't be assigned zero command dials. I don't see it providing any benefit whatsoever, but you could, technically, do it.

In the Nebula Outskirts:

"The total numer of command dials that must be assigned each of the first players ships during each Command phase is increased by 1."

"The total number of command dials that must be assigned to eah of the second player's ships during each Command phase is decreased by 1."

Although the card does not specify to a minimum of one .... DO IT. ASSUME A MINIMUM OF ONE.

FAILING TO DO IT BREAKS THE GAME.

- Without at least one command dial Assigned (wether or not it is assumed or not), then you have NO WAY OF TRACKING THAT A SHIP HAS ACTIVATED.

"Oh, this Raider moves."

"But it just moved?"

"No it didn't, there's no command dial face up on its ship card."

nevermind that, even if you do assume a "Blank" command Dial, taht turns what should be a BONUS forthe second player, into a PENALTY.

...

Assume a Minimum of 1. If you want the Game to Work. At all.

Regarding the original post, I don't see anywhere in the rules that says a ship can't be assigned zero command dials. I don't see it providing any benefit whatsoever, but you could, technically, do it.

During the Command Phase, each player assigns command dials to their ships. Not some of their ships, but all of them. Each ship must be assigned at least one command dial each command phase.

Golden Rule applies.

If a Card contradicts the RRG, you do what the Card Says.

...

So the potential is there.

It just breaks the game if you do it.

Dras, I am amazed to see you advocating for making assumptions based on what the card doesn't say. You're usually very rules-as-written.

I mean, you're RIGHT. it's just odd to see you right like this.

Because to me, the #1 Rule, "Don't Break the Game", overwrites all others, regardless of lustre or colour.

Parallel to the Relentless card: The number of dials that must be assigned is reduced by one. Same language.

To mandate no dials on a one dial ship, you'd need language to the effect of "You must assign one dial fewer than your command value."

Parallel to the Relentless card: The number of dials that must be assigned is reduced by one. Same language.

To mandate no dials on a one dial ship, you'd need language to the effect of "You must assign one dial fewer than your command value."

Can you expand on this?

Every turn you MUST assign dials to each ship until you reach the command value.

Relentless reduces this number by one, as does the Nebula card.

So, for a CR-90, the number of dials I must assign is 1, reduced by 1, is zero. Every turn, I must assign dials to that ship until I reach zero dials.

Parallel to the Relentless card: The number of dials that must be assigned is reduced by one. Same language.

To mandate no dials on a one dial ship, you'd need language to the effect of "You must assign one dial fewer than your command value."

Can you expand on this?

Every turn you MUST assign dials to each ship until you reach the command value.

Relentless reduces this number by one, as does the Nebula card.

So, for a CR-90, the number of dials I must assign is 1, reduced by 1, is zero. Every turn, I must assign dials to that ship until I reach zero dials.

Neither Relentless nor Nebula reduce the command value. They reduce the number of dials that you MUST set. Your command value is still one. Relentess in normal operation means that you must set two dials. It doesn't change the command value away from three, which is why you can still take three tokens. Technically you still have the option to set three, four, five, six, and I'm not sure why, but even 10 dials. You only MUST set a base of three, reduced by one to two.

A Clarification will make this simpler.

Relentless doesn't need this disclaimer, because it's starting with three dials and saying you go down to two. Going from one to zero dials is so dumb there's no way it's intended, as it makes half the ships in the game incompatible with the basic procedure of play. How many game effects trigger "when a ship reveals a command"? Well, if you have no command dials then you never reveal a command, so you can't move squadrons, change speed, or arguably even activate. Dras is right on, gotta be an oversight. I am fully expecting an errata "to a minimum of 1... As if we needed to tell you this."

From the earlier part of this conversation, I took it as a question of "Is it possible to assign zero command dials?" If that's the question, I would say RAW yes, it's possible. But it wouldn't make sense to do it. It actually hurts you, and as second player, this is supposed to be a benefit.

Has this conversation gone beyond the scope of that question now?

The question of whether it's optional is relevant for ships with SFO, too. I'll often have a nav on top and a CF on bottom with my MC30's if I'm not sure at the Command Phase whether or not I'll have a shot by the time a ship activates. If the -1 dial is mandatory, it would be a marked disadvantage for that build.

The question is still very relevant because if you must set no command dials, then its very much a penalty for those 1 command ships, and as Ard suggests, a Penalty if you go SFO on a 2 command ship. If on the other reading, you can set as many as you'd like, but only the number that you MUST set is adjusted by the objective, then there's no concern. I think given the way the game is constructed, it would be very difficult to think that they'd intended to penalize the second player in such a fashion.

I wholeheartedly agree, Verg. I read the rule as really optional. The number of dials that MUST be set is decreased by one, not the number of dials that can be set. So a Command 2 or 3 ship can reduce it by one, but doesn't have to. And I think Ard has a perfect example of why a Command 2 ship wouldn't want to set a single dial. I'm sure there are some others out there, though they would all be very narrow examples.

This is clearly designed to be advantageous, so forcing a Command 1 vessel to forgo setting dials would be a penalty. But I would think that, to answer the OP's question, by the rules you COULD set zero dials, though it wouldn't make sense. And as someone else pointed out, it makes it difficult to track whether that ship has activated or not.

Oh, this just came up for our next game and after having read all the posts here I cannot feel I have a satisfactory answer.

Rules state that I may assign exactly as many dials as I have command on my ship, no more, no less. No mandatory Command + X dials - just the same number. For and ISD it would mean 3, for a CR90 it would mean 1 and no other arbitrary amounts.

Nebula outskirts demands that Player 1 adds a dial beyond the Command Value, and removes a dial based on Command Value for Player 2. That means if Player 1 had an ISD it would be assigned 4 dials and Player 2's CR90 would be assigned 0 dials.

I read that the objective should be "an advantage for Player 2" - but nowhere does this say so in print or otherwise. I assume that it could be an advantage for Player 2, but not all possible fleets. A fleet with a lot of ships with Command value of 1 would be a poor choice indeed - better to let the big guys handle that one. Not much use of flotillas in such environments.

I'm just saying - it does not have to be an advantage in every single way with no effort made, does it? I mean, we are both in the Outskirts of the Nebula after all.

No, it doesn't say it.

But there must be an advantage for the Player 2 Fleet to belanace out the fact that the Player One fleet has Shoot + Move Priority.

Its built into the Game design .

59 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

No, it doesn't say it.

But there must be an advantage for the Player 2 Fleet to belanace out the fact that the Player One fleet has Shoot + Move Priority.

Its built into the Game design .

So my question is as you are the resident rule lawyer, why does player 2 need an advantage? As you said that it does not say it anyplace, most cards do give one to the second player, but I would say that at least to me and how I play my fleets not all cards are really and advantage to the second player.

1 hour ago, Mixxathon said:

Oh, this just came up for our next game and after having read all the posts here I cannot feel I have a satisfactory answer.

Rules state that I may assign exactly as many dials as I have command on my ship, no more, no less. No mandatory Command + X dials - just the same number. For and ISD it would mean 3, for a CR90 it would mean 1 and no other arbitrary amounts.

Nebula outskirts demands that Player 1 adds a dial beyond the Command Value, and removes a dial based on Command Value for Player 2. That means if Player 1 had an ISD it would be assigned 4 dials and Player 2's CR90 would be assigned 0 dials.

I read that the objective should be "an advantage for Player 2" - but nowhere does this say so in print or otherwise. I assume that it could be an advantage for Player 2, but not all possible fleets. A fleet with a lot of ships with Command value of 1 would be a poor choice indeed - better to let the big guys handle that one. Not much use of flotillas in such environments.

I'm just saying - it does not have to be an advantage in every single way with no effort made, does it? I mean, we are both in the Outskirts of the Nebula after all.

I agree that just because being player two is normally has an advantage, does not mean that it always does, or that the way you build you fleet has no bearing on it. If I remember correctly they have already said that sometimes how you build your fleet will negate the advantage you get. Take for example the mission card advanced gunnery, if your objective ship has either a gunnery team or slaved turrets you get no advantage from the card, and could even say that it was giving you a negative effect.