Yes or no?

Theres evidence to support both in the IH and cant spot anything on the FAQ

On page 16 it says Noble Born can be Adepts, Arbitrators, Assassins, Clerics, Guardsmen and Scum.

On Page 20 table 1-7 for randomly rolling a career path has noble born psykers on a roll of 76-85.

The write ups are more flavour aides than anything else. Oddly enough, you can't randomly generate a Sorotitas of anything but Schola background, but the class writeup states that they can also be from Imperial or Feral Worlds, or be Noble Born.

There's no real mechanical or flavour reason for a Pskyer not to be noble born. They trade better social skills and income for a penalty to their primary stat.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, Nobles can't be Psykers. I believe this is due to the fact that the so-called 'noble" gene replaces the "psyker" gene at the 43rd allele or, more accurately, one is either born with the noble gene or the psyker gene but not both. There was a time in the Imperium when psykers could be born to a noble house, but all of this changed in with the War of Silence in M33 and the unsung (and quite silent even) victory of House of Normanicus, who would latter, during the time locally known as the Age of Binding in the Segmentum Solar, employ the Tech Priests of Lux Aeterna and their Alkali Hemoaccreting Terratrion to destabilize the homeonuclaic co-adhesion of the 43 allele to, well, you know the rest of how the nobles become, well, noble.

Either way, that would be the one and only reason a noble could not be a psyker. One and only...

Graver said:

Or, y'know, psykers born to noble families end up getting disowned for being abhorrent witches, denying them the benefits of their lineage.

"Oh bother. Geeves, see what can be done about this terrible mess. Witch burnings are so hard on the carpet."

Also, as Imperial Science TM has the handy answer to this dilemma, rejoice for we are enlightened!

As we all know, Psykers are often known by the Low Gothic epithet "wytch". It is likewise common knowledge that wytches float on water, and therefore made of wood. This is also one of the reasons that wytches are so flammable. It is less commonly known, but no less scientifically valid that Nobles are made of marble, as evidenced by the many busts, carvings and memorial decorations cluttering up their dimenses. As wood and marble are clearly NOT the same material, nor even close in structure, one consisting of dense fibrous biomass and the other of rigid mineral composition, it is plainly evident to Men of Learning that Nobles and Psykers are not physically compatable and therefore must not exist.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Well, ignoring the fact that a psyker simply can not be born into a noble family in the first place due to nobles carrying an active noble gene which gives their biology a distinctly marble like composition and psykers require that gene to be reversed giving them the fibrous wood like biology that enables them to channel the warp (much like an oak dose) and, since the days of the War of Silence, the noble gene has not been able to be reversed into the psyker gene, I can put forth a hypothetical situation in which a psyker can indeed be both a psyker and a noble.

There exists a powerful, reviled, and truly feared noble house within the Segmentum Solar with branches that stretch far and wide into many other segemntums, the House of Laveau. It is a singularly odd noble house in that a large number of it's members are actually sanctioned psykers of one stripe or anouther and it is these members who maintain control of the house's fortunes and policies. While many other houses, clergymen, and even Inquisitors view the house as one would a viper found in the bed sheets, it has amassed such fortunes, power, and entrenched its self so deeply into the Imperium that removing it would be an incredibly arduous task and very deadly to those who fail in that task. While it has many branches of differing names to its tree such as the Wytch Kings of Denezibauhm Dynasty and the shrouded Lacoux line of Mandrigora, they all have their roots in the House of Laveau and pay tribute to it as it.

The House of Laveau maintains strong almost symbiotic bonds with the Adaptus Astrotelepathica and works hard to maintain the purity of it's members, both in blood and in spirit. They maintain a vicious army of assassins within their employ who's sole duty is eradication of any house member who's soul shows even the slightest blemish. Likewise, their young, who, through the interbreeding of the house seem far more likely to develop psychic powers, are monitored from birth until death waiting for the first signs of awakening to their heritage. Throughout this time, they are drilled and schooled in techniques to fortify their minds and prayers to fortify their spirit that they might might survive the Black Voyage and their first tour of duty. Due to some mixture of genetics and upbringing, a disproportionate number of Laveau's turned over to the black come back as fully sanctioned psykers, strong of mind if not always strong of power.

Through ancient pacts and treaties, and their symbiotic relationship with the Astratelepathica, House Laveau "retains" it's members that are turned over to the black ships. Much like the traditions of other noble houses who turn their children over to the navy or Ecclessearchy, House Laveau turns it's sons and daughters over to the Black Sips for them to be tempered into the men and women of it's future. These house members go trough the same process as any other psyker, once they are sanctioned and complete a 10 year tour of service (some accuse them of reciving favored treatment bassed on their linnage and their quick rise through the ranks as well as privlages they are still able to call upon), those that survive are reunited with their house and family in a duel position as both officer within the noble house and, more often then not, a ranking member of the Adaptus Astrotelepatica. In fact, a great number of high officials within the Astrotelepatica hail from one of House Laveau's many branches as dose a frighting number of Inquisitors.

The Black Voyage, for one of the House of Laveau is seen as the first step on their first right of passage. Once they show signs of power, their birthright is all but set, assuming they have taken their lessons to heart and are not defective in body, mind, nor soul. The sanctioning is, to them, their passage into adulthood and their tour of duty serving the Imperium before their return to the house (to continue serving them Imperium, but also the House Levaeu as well) is the tempering which forges them into the stern and galvanized lords they are.

That's just one way a psyker could be born of noble linage and still maintain it... or something like that. There's no real thought in that, just wrote it as it came to mind, but I dare say a generic disposition that all noble houses should have is no reason for their to be no exceptions to the rule. Which brings me back to the one and only real reason a psyker can not be born a noble: the noble gene vs the psyker gene. One makes you marble, the other wood and, lets face it, you'll never create wood by rubbing two pieces of marble together. All you'll get for your trouble is a large pile of little marble bits.

Yup, so, again, unless I'm mistaken on the whole noble gene, psyker gene, wood and marble thing, ten there is no way a psyker can come from noble birth and that is the one and only reason that no psyker what-so-ever could have been born a noble. One and only...

Wow... you guys are helpful today arent you?

Graver said:

Where on earth is that from?

H.B.M.C. said:

I think he's being sarcastic, and making the idea that a noble not being able to be a psyker also rediculous.

However, chances are that, if you are a noble, and you start manifesting powers, you'd lose the benefits of your family and bloodline after being taken, as no self-respecting noble family would acknowledge that they had a psyker in the family.

MILLANDSON said:

Well, please forgive me if I'm being presumptuous. But I have to agree with Millandson here. I think his take is right on. If you show enough psychic ability to be picked up by the Black Ships, chances are your family will disown you without batting an eye. In fact, they are likely to try and erase all evidence that you ever existed. JMHO.

Sister Cat said:

I would agree too. Not that there can exist the odd noble Psyker (just like there could be the odd Feral World Arbitrator, Techpriest Wookie or Hive World Adept). GM fiat. But a sanctioned Psyker has disappeared for decades to be subjected to all sorts of tests. They are broken. The sanctioning side effects are to represent that. They are not really their former self and their loyalty is with someone else too. Likewise a noble family is probably going to disown them, not be connected with a witch in the family. A sanctioned psyker is still a psyker. Nobody is supposed to be proud of breeding witches even if they are handed over to the Black Ships!

Something else to keep in mind: the power that comes with being psychic and born to a noble House and the danger of abusing the sanctioned use of psychic abilities for the latter's purposes. A question of loyalty. At Terra, when being tested, they could very well be forced to renounce their family.

Now if someone wanted to play a noble Psyker I would probably give them Witch Finder Rykehuss for the Vendetta. And then have fun seeing just another House fall.

from france

the way i remenber it some psycher those of warp travel abilities form noble families of their own. so they can be born into or be adopted to. and that is one possibilty you have to remenber that some noble boodlines do not cast off their scions if they are psycker some like the malfi brood rejoice in that. the psycher can be noble first and be adopted by a radical inquisitor. is ravenor a special case or just a example hi is both noble and psycher. finally you can consider that noble is just the origine and not a backround . after all my arbitrator was born on forges world but no games mechanics reflect it..

the 8 spider said:

@8 spider. Very true. However, those families are members of the Navis Nobilitae, they are Navigators. They have a special 'commission' that has been acknowledged since, if not before, the beginnings of the empire. All others would rather have their gums scraped than have it known that a 'witch' was born to their line, IMHO.

So, while it is possible, as far as I can see, for a noble-born person to become a psyker, doing so effectively removes that character from the benefits of being noble-born. In other words, he would then instead evince a more traditional psyker's background. He/she wouldn't have access to his noble family's fortunes and contacts. So, mechanically speaking, he/she wouldn't have the traits associated with a more traditional Noble-Born background. JMHO.

While it is true that having a psyker born of your blood would, most all cases, be the the blemish and attention getter most all noble families would not want and most noble houses will disown such an individual (never mind that said individual might not be left after the sanctioning or even stationed in the same sector they were taken from), all of these are reliant on human behavior and, when talking about human behavior, there's almost always an exception to every rule.

So, is it physically possible that a psyker could be born a noble and manage to retain their privileges as one after sanctioning? Yes, there's no universal or, to my knowledge, Imperial law stopping such from happening.

Is it probable that a psyker could be born a noble and retain their privileges after sanctioning? No, it's most definitly not probably as most all noble houses will disown the psyker, the psyker could be completely rewritten, they could be placed in a sector or segmentum far from their old life and that life's power base, etc.

So, while such is not probable (as represented by the random roll tables which only show what is probable and not what is possible) it is also not impossible. There can be black sheep noble houses, noble houses composed solely of Voiders who revere the psyker, a noble house like the one I described a few posts up, etc. They would definitly be the exception to the rule, but, then again, in the 40k universe, there seems to be quite a few exceptions to the rules never mind the fact that the PC's are usually (and expected to be in this game) those exceptions.

Graver said:

Actually it would be almost illegal for noble house to not to disown a psyker. After all, sanctioned psykers are no longer independent persons. They are for all purposes property of Emperor and it would be unthinkable for a noble house to try to claim Emperors property for themselves.

Non-Navigator noble houses that maintain even token loyalty to the Emperor (and nobles had better excede "token" or there is in Inquisitorial inquiry in their future!) will do everything in their power to erase any trace of some poor scion of the house who develops into a psyker. It is not just a matter of if the psyker in question is strong-of-mind and survives the Sanctioning process, but one of breeding and genes. Simply put, nobles in a feudal structured Imperium draw their "right to rule" not just from inertia, but also in large part due to "superior breeding", incresed expectations of performance, Divine right to rule and so on. Having warp-tainted genes in the family as a known trait would effectively DOOM the noble family, as this publicly and clearly undermines the foundations that support their exalted position. A psyker calling on the family funds, drawing on their name for influence and favour (the Peer trait) and otherwise flaunting their status would be vulgar and disruptive to the established Order of things, even to the mostly illiterate and uneducated masses. Such a disruption to Imperial stability will eventually park an Amalthan Inquisitor deep up the family's collective posterior. Either that or a rival family declares them tainted, assassinates the House leaders and takes over their holdings "for the good of the Empire". The Administratum would back their play too, as long as the tithes go uninterrupted.

That being said, if was far more fun to go on my junk science expedition earlier in the post. Honestly, you people play Dark Heresy but do not appreciate a good batch of Python-esque tongue in cheek humour? The BUNNY take your black souls!

Now if someone wanted to play a character who was an EXILED and disowned noble as part of a Psyker's background I would be willing to work up a bit of a customized starting package for them. Build off of the type of world the character's family rules over (Imperial, Hive, etc.) and then tweak some of their starting skills to fit the story. I already maintain that the no Adepts from hive worlds is simply an error, as any hive world would literally be CRAWLING with the faceless masses in robes, so that is not an issue in my game.

In a nutshell: REMOVE the wealth and connected perks of noble birth, build the character as if they were a commoner from the same homeworld. Add speak Language (High Gothic) and Literacy, possibly Common Lore (Imperial Creed) as a basic skill to starting skills and remove anything that implies a "streetwise" upbringing. You might consider replacing one of the origin traits with Etiquette from the Noble origin, since this relies on training and upbringing more than actual current status.

I have a player with a Noble Born Biomancer. She was born to nobility but disowned after her mutation was discovered. Since her return to the Calixis sector, she has made a name for herself and her talents are highly sought after. For nearly twenty years she has worked for members of Hax's court, Rogue Traders and even Inquisitors. She has come in to the service of our Inquisitor very recently being hired to correct a hideous injury the Inquisitor suffered in the course of his investigations.

So there are some circumstances in which a Noble Born Psyker may keep all of the traits of the Homeworld as listed. At least as far as I'm concerned.

Noble born Psykers are entirely possible. As to them having to be disowned when given to the Black Ships, that is not necessarily the case. Given that noble families can take Peer: Astropaths , I can see a family maintaining ties with their Psyker children as just good sense.

-=Brother Praetus=-

FIrst of all, i like all the comments, they are very interesting reading:D

I have read about that gene, and I found it quite interesting, but i can't stop my brain:P If there is an allele which is have to be the noble genotype, or psyker genotype, you have to have 2 of it. If the noble one supresses the psyker one, there are noble borns, who HAVE the allele, but not having the psy power. But It's an interesting question, that this people maybe have psychic powers of some sort(it can be fun), or it is possible, that if they are having the suppressed psy allele, their child may be a psyker.

OR there are mutations as you know:P It's possible, for somebody to possess not only two alleles because of fragmentation in the chromosomes. Or just think about chimaerism:D It's the most fun: my hand and my liver is a psyker, but I'm not:D

If I bored somebody, or somebody think it's ridiculous, let me say, that was only some fast brainstorming, to prove that genetics can produce some very interesting characters, or adventure lines (which side you are;)). It as just fun, and is somebody wants to reflect, I'm looking forward it!

from Hungary

from france

i don't think that you bothered someone not me any way. well i am not familiar with dna so my answer is ... : it is up to the gm and the player.

The real question is not about 'noble born psykers', but about 'noble-born SANCTIONED psykers', as a few people have pointed out.

So the question is - can the various noble traits be kept after years on Terra? Certainly, since a sanctioned psyker is the property of the Scholastica Psykana, a psyker who was born into a noble family would have zero chance of receiving their inheritance - I mean, it's not like they're going to be spending their time schmoozing with the other rich folks is it?

But on the other hand, why would someone who was born to feel arrogant and superior, then is chosen as one in three hundred to receive the Emperor's blessing, suddenly start acting all Imperial-Worlder-ish?

Personally, I'd let a player character from a Noble Background become a psyker take all the normal starting traits, but likely deny them the extra income.

I think though it's fair to say that while the flavour obviously allows a psyker to be born into a noble house, it does not fit the setting to have a sanctioned psyker going around with all the trappings of nobility, which is what the noble-born background is all about.

But has there been anything official on this?

M'Kachen said:

Years of institutional torture and persecution, invasive testing and probing, and the constant terrible weight of the Immaterium upon one's mind?