Considering that, using the Special Modifications prices for labor, an ATA with all the Mods costs 19,000 credits and is a drop in the bucket when compared to the price of almost any capital ship. There is no good reason that every ISD, VSD, MC80, and many other ships with hard points shouldn't have a fully dressed ATA. And then it just becomes a must-have tax on the hard point capacity.

By that same logic, every ship should have fully modded Droid Gunner Brains for each and every weapon they have installed. It’s only money, and it’s not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of those ships.

Considering that, using the Special Modifications prices for labor, an ATA with all the Mods costs 19,000 credits and is a drop in the bucket when compared to the price of almost any capital ship. There is no good reason that every ISD, VSD, MC80, and many other ships with hard points shouldn't have a fully dressed ATA. And then it just becomes a must-have tax on the hard point capacity.

By that same logic, every ship should have fully modded Droid Gunner Brains for each and every weapon they have installed. It’s only money, and it’s not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of those ships.

That's true as well, but the investment difference is pretty significant. A fully loaded gunner droid brain runs 15,000 credits and only applies to one weapon. Further, it has reduced effectiveness if the crew already has ranks in Gunnery. Conversely, the ATA enhances every weapon on the ship (several dozen weapons on some capital ships) for only 19,000 credits and there is no loss of usefulness as the crew's Gunnery ranks improve.

Pile some talents on your pilot NPCs. Adversary works well as long as it's a small ship, like a starfighter, and it's the pilot who has the Adversary talent. Then you have Tricky Target, which reduces the effective Silhouette by one. Defensive Piloting is also great for racking up some more setback dice. And then there's Master Pilot, which lets you both take Evasive Manoeuvres, Gain the Advantage and fire off a shot all on the same turn.

You also have attachments like the Electronic Countermeasures Suite, which decreases effective silhouette once. Overcharged Engines gives you Tricky Target (and if you combine these two with the TT Talent, you now have a ship that's going to be very, very difficult to hit).

Pile some talents on your pilot NPCs. Adversary works well as long as it's a small ship, like a starfighter, and it's the pilot who has the Adversary talent. Then you have Tricky Target, which reduces the effective Silhouette by one. Defensive Piloting is also great for racking up some more setback dice. And then there's Master Pilot, which lets you both take Evasive Manoeuvres, Gain the Advantage and fire off a shot all on the same turn.

You also have attachments like the Electronic Countermeasures Suite, which decreases effective silhouette once. Overcharged Engines gives you Tricky Target (and if you combine these two with the TT Talent, you now have a ship that's going to be very, very difficult to hit).

Tricky Target is not ranked, so no matter how many times you gain it from whatever sources, it only drops your Silhouette by 1. This is cumulative with the ECM Suite, but there are also targeting goggles which effectively increase the target's Silhouette by 1 as a readily available counter to such defenses.

You are the GM you can raise the difficulty or upgrade it. If you feel like you need a justification then give the NPC a talent called "seasoned pilot" all ships targeting this have its difficulty increased or upgraded to whatever you want. The NPC's are as competent and skilled as you need them to be to tell a compelling story and to serve as appropriate threats to your players, this is why the whole balance thing between players and NPCs if fiction. All that matters is that your players are balanced and none are stealing the spotlight too much. It's also why I view this thread as nonsense. From a balance perspective ATA is one of the most balanced items because the group all gets the same bonus you don't have a situation where the combat monkey does everything and the other players just watch.

You are the GM you can raise the difficulty or upgrade it. If you feel like you need a justification then give the NPC a talent called "seasoned pilot" all ships targeting this have its difficulty increased or upgraded to whatever you want. The NPC's are as competent and skilled as you need them to be to tell a compelling story and to serve as appropriate threats to your players, this is why the whole balance thing between players and NPCs if fiction. All that matters is that your players are balanced and none are stealing the spotlight too much. It's also why I view this thread as nonsense. From a balance perspective ATA is one of the most balanced items because the group all gets the same bonus you don't have a situation where the combat monkey does everything and the other players just watch.

If you had read the first post, then you would know this thread is not for you.

Pile some talents on your pilot NPCs. Adversary works well as long as it's a small ship, like a starfighter, and it's the pilot who has the Adversary talent. Then you have Tricky Target, which reduces the effective Silhouette by one. Defensive Piloting is also great for racking up some more setback dice. And then there's Master Pilot, which lets you both take Evasive Manoeuvres, Gain the Advantage and fire off a shot all on the same turn.

You also have attachments like the Electronic Countermeasures Suite, which decreases effective silhouette once. Overcharged Engines gives you Tricky Target (and if you combine these two with the TT Talent, you now have a ship that's going to be very, very difficult to hit).

Tricky Target is not ranked, so no matter how many times you gain it from whatever sources, it only drops your Silhouette by 1. This is cumulative with the ECM Suite, but there are also targeting goggles which effectively increase the target's Silhouette by 1 as a readily available counter to such defenses.

The talent does indeed not stack with itself, so the Mod from Overcharged Engines wouldn't add to it, but the ECM attachment doesn't give a rank in Tricky Target, it merely decreases the ship's silhouette by one for targeting purposes. So it would indeed stack with the talent for a total reduction of 2 silhouette sizes.

Pile some talents on your pilot NPCs. Adversary works well as long as it's a small ship, like a starfighter, and it's the pilot who has the Adversary talent. Then you have Tricky Target, which reduces the effective Silhouette by one. Defensive Piloting is also great for racking up some more setback dice. And then there's Master Pilot, which lets you both take Evasive Manoeuvres, Gain the Advantage and fire off a shot all on the same turn.

You also have attachments like the Electronic Countermeasures Suite, which decreases effective silhouette once. Overcharged Engines gives you Tricky Target (and if you combine these two with the TT Talent, you now have a ship that's going to be very, very difficult to hit).

Tricky Target is not ranked, so no matter how many times you gain it from whatever sources, it only drops your Silhouette by 1. This is cumulative with the ECM Suite, but there are also targeting goggles which effectively increase the target's Silhouette by 1 as a readily available counter to such defenses.

The talent does indeed not stack with itself, so the Mod from Overcharged Engines wouldn't add to it, but the ECM attachment doesn't give a rank in Tricky Target, it merely decreases the ship's silhouette by one for targeting purposes. So it would indeed stack with the talent for a total reduction of 2 silhouette sizes.

Not to yet again be the devil's advocate, but could this resolve in a more fun way by pandering to the sheer destruction this configuration renders and just throw more things to shoot? The players seem to enjoy blowing things up, so maybe indulging that -- too much of a good thing -- might be a good solution. I'm still keen to hear your playtests of your suggestion, it does seem to be an equitable compromise.

More things to shoot also tends to increase how many shots are coming back at you. This improves your ability to take out a target with rocket tag, but numbers are always going to be a killer. It's entirely an offensive boon, and it doesn't actually add staying power. There is also the issue that there is no reason for the enemy to not have ATAs too. I'm much more of simulationist than some around here, and too much reliance on narrative rulings ("the bad guys don't use this highly effective, inexpensive, and readily available upgrade because... well, because they just don't) is not a positive thing in my eyes.

well this thread might not be for me but do you realize downgrading dificulty is much better then upgrading an attack roll.

Lets say you have a standard difficulty of 2 and you now downgrade the difficulty by 1 you end up rolling 1 difficulty die.

Moreover you automatically cancel a destiny point spent to upgrade difficulty making it so you very rarely have to roll against challenge dice (there would have to be 2 in the pool to even have a chance of despair)

If you think ATA is that broken I would change it to give it the accuracy trait instead of an upgrade and let the mod be either another accuracy trait or a true aim

targeting computers are a big part of star wars and there is a reason why they are used, perhaps mechanically this would offend you less.

Most attack ships or military grade vessles that enemies have should have an ATA, most civilian and cargo ships would not

Lets say you have a standard difficulty of 2 and you now downgrade the difficulty by 1 you end up rolling 1 difficulty die.

That's not what the rules say.

your right lol its late but still its very potent to never be able to flip a destiny and have any effect in attacks

your right lol its late but still its very potent to never be able to flip a destiny and have any effect in attacks

That depends on if you or your opponent are also pulling Evasive Maneuvers, are firing at a Nemesis, or if the target is using any of the other methods of adding additional difficulty upgrades.

However, that said, I'd be more than happy to have the ATA only negate the difficulty upgrade from Evasive Maneuvers (on the part of the firing ship and/or the target).

More things to shoot also tends to increase how many shots are coming back at you. This improves your ability to take out a target with rocket tag, but numbers are always going to be a killer. It's entirely an offensive boon, and it doesn't actually add staying power. There is also the issue that there is no reason for the enemy to not have ATAs too. I'm much more of simulationist than some around here, and too much reliance on narrative rulings ("the bad guys don't use this highly effective, inexpensive, and readily available upgrade because... well, because they just don't) is not a positive thing in my eyes.

Abso-frickin-lutely! That doesn't make sense.

I can see cases where adding a few minions would work, but that wouldn't work in all situations. Surely being a glass cannon isn't new to most gamers, though.