Does this combination enable speed 5 squadrons? The timing of it is a bit questionable. "Each squadron you activate may increase its speed to 4 until the end of its activation." & "[..] the speed of each squadron that a friendly ship activates is increased by 1 to a maximum of 5, until the end of that squadron's activation."

There's doesn't appear to be a clear order of operations here, both are simply triggered on a squadron being activated by a ship. So either All Fighters bumps up towards a limit of 4, or you raise the speed to 4 and then add 1 from All Fighters.

You're right, it's unclear. For reference:

Effects with a command icon as a header, such as “ ,” can be resolved once while the ship is resolving the matching command.

So, we have a discrete effect and a clear timing for Indy : one time, at any point during the squadron activation, a squadron may forego its ability to shoot in order to change its speed to 4 for that activation.

AFFM's squadron effect, on the other hand, isn't written using the keywords that are clearly defined in the RRG--"when", "while", "before", "after". So it's kind of up for interpretation until and unless the timing is clarified. The wording of the relevant portion is:

... the speed of each squadron that a friendly ship activates is increased by 1... until the end of that squadron's activation.

So the effect applies to every ship-activated squadron. It's not written as a one-time event, like "when a squadron is activated by a friendly ship, increase its speed by 1"; it's written as an ongoing effect. Because of that, I'd say it interacts additively with Indy , giving you speed-5 squadrons. But I'm not married to that position, because it's definitely up for interpretation at this point.

I'll track it on this stance:

I don't see why it is up for interpretation. I mean, I see that it doesn't use the specific Keywords, but if you apply it in such a way that you cannot mix the two together, you're basically never getting AFFM to work at all anyway, because the component issue there is no Keyword for Timing...

So either:

AFFM Does Something

or

AFFM Does Nothing. Ever.

Ergo, under the assumption that AFFM does something:

They are two discreet effects, they do share the same timing, even if it is not specified (the Squadron Activation), in which case, the rule for you to use is to choose the order in which they apply...

You can increase Speed by +1, and then set Speed to 4....

Or you can Set Speed to 4, then increase Speed by +1...

.... and I know I've had this argument before, too.

I agree with your conclusion, but I disagree that it's clear, because it's not clear when the AFFM effect takes effect.

Regardless, I sent it in for clarification.

Best thing to do

If you trigger AFFM the +1 isn't optional. It means whenever you activate a squadron it's speeds is increased by 1. Independence is optional as long as it said MAY. Maybe I do a jump but I think that the speed is not increased by the activation with Independence . Even without keywords I think AFFM is "when you activate" and Independence is "during your activation". This way means you move with speed 4 OR speed +1.

Of course AFFM could be a "during" too without the optional issue. If it is this way there would be possible the speed 5.

But AFFM isn't a 'when you activate' - it says that until the end of the squad's activation it's speed is increased by one. If you resolve Independance first you get speed five squads.

At the start of the second turn I'm planning on throwing six speed 5 squads into someone's face; then, since Adar will be on board, Yavaris will double-tap Norra via a VCX. Then each turn Yavaris activates two squads.The six will be VCXx2, Ten Numb, Norra, Wedge and Jan.

Really doesn't seem that difficult. If you want the two effects to stack, you have to activate the Pelta and trigger AFFM before you later activate Independence, whereupon the fighters activated directly by Independence forgo their attack to move speed "5" instead of "4".

Although... I guess by the phrasing of the AFFM card, maybe as long as there is a Squadron activation token on the Pelta at the start of the Ship phase (because it's not like you are spending an actual dial which can only be done when a ship reveals it, thus activating), you don't necessarily need to activate the Pelta before Independence, just remove the token and then activate any ship in your formation to begin the +1 effect, after which Independence comes into play with speed 5 fighters.

Maybe it counts as a special situation where a token can be spent by a ship without it needing to be activated?

Really doesn't seem that difficult. If you want the two effects to stack, you have to activate the Pelta and trigger AFFM before you later activate Independence, whereupon the fighters activated directly by Independence forgo their attack to move speed "5" instead of "4".

Although... I guess by the phrasing of the AFFM card, maybe as long as there is a Squadron activation token on the Pelta at the start of the Ship phase (because it's not like you are spending an actual dial which can only be done when a ship reveals it, thus activating), you don't necessarily need to activate the Pelta before Independence, just remove the token and then activate any ship in your formation to begin the +1 effect, after which Independence comes into play with speed 5 fighters.

Maybe it counts as a special situation where a token can be spent by a ship without it needing to be activated?

I don't think you have to activate the AFFM ship in order to use the benefit of AFFM. "At the start of the ship phase" is before you or your opponent have selected a ship to activate. So if you have the token to spend or discard the AFFM each squadron activated by a ship gets the +1 speed boost. The decision to use AFFM happens before anyone activates a thing. The Independence activated squadrons then have two effects triggered when selected. Then it is like Dras says.

After careful re-reading, I can only conclude that the timing of "each squadron that a ship activates [...] until the end of its activation " must be understood as exactly equivalent to "each squadron that you [this ship] activate [...] until the end of its activation ".

So, although the cards are used at different times (AFFM: start of the ship phase; Independence: while resolving a squadron command), the effects themselves have identical timing and therefore resolve in the order of the player's choice.

As a result, I'm inclined to believe that AFFM and MC80 do stack.

Doesn't this stack like Corrupter and Admiral Chiraneau?

Chiraneau gives you speed 2 and Corrupter boosts it to speed 3.

I think I am missing something, but I don't see what the confusion is. AFFM triggers at the start of the ship phase, and Independence boosts to speed 4. Since both occur during the squads activation, you get to choose the order in which it happens.

It would be different if AFFM said "All friendly squads have +1 speed this round" because that means the speed boost would happen outside of the squads activation, meaning you cannot choose the order with Independence.

Yup, they stack. I can't see any wording that would keep them from stacking.

For some reason, I am glad to be vindicated on this one.

Chiraneau and corrupter are not example as one change the speed and the other increase it. And they FAQed.

Here we have 2 increase effects. I would say they stack but one increase by 1 and the other increase to 4 (no more). You can move to 5 only with the correct triggering order. Just think using independence with a b-wing or an x-wing, both goes to 4. If you AFFM before Independence sorry but you will move 4. Of course as DA and other said the timing seems to be the same.

I assumed they stack, you just have to work them in the correct order.

Quote

Hello Ardaedhel,

In response to your question:

Hey gents, If I trigger All Fighters, Follow Me!, and then activate squadrons using Independence's ability, do the Independence-activated squadrons move at speed 4 or speed 5? Put simply: do AFFM and Indy stack, or does Indy overwrite the AFFM-increased speed? Thanks!

Yes, both effects increase the speed of a squadron activated by a ship's squadron command during that squadron’s activation. Both effects have the same timing, so the player can resolve them in any order.

Thanks for your question!

Michael Gernes
Game Producer