Same, CN. We're playing that if you buy it then it is part of your 500 points.

You can chose to leave some of it behind (just like you can field < 400 points for a standard battle), but you can never exceed 500 total points of equipment.

Here's hoping the FAQ also covers this.

Why do you need an FAQ for a play style designed to be played in a noncompetitive setting? If you are playing the kit with a store, they should have a TO on staff so they can make the call for you. Otherwise you can figure it out with your friends.

Because we're running CC at a local store, I'm the Armada TO for it and the fewer arguments the better.

I find having things in print from FFG makes the process much more smooth.

If you're the TO, then there shouldn't be arguments, and there should be a smooth process...

Because you are GOD.

Make the call.

Document the call.

Move Forward to enjoying the Game

Of course, I completely oversimplify the process...

I mean, that's how it works with my Group here in Hothgary for the most part... I run the League. I take my time out to organise tables, playmats, and extras... hell, I'm often there an hour before open, physically setting up tables and chairs not only for Armada, but for X-Wing, Bloodbowl, Heroclix and Warmachine, with no thanks...

The Trade off is, my Word when it comes to the League is Law... If you come to me, as the Marshal, with a Question - its because you have a Question, and a Problem, and you need it solved.

My promise, to them, as the TO and Marshal, is to solve it in the fairest, most respectful way possible to everyone.

So once its kicked to me, it gets solved. And if I must, in writing, for everyone else....

The only time I don't, is for things like Regionals - where I let the Store Manager make the calls, because he's just as invested in the rules as we are, occasionally being a player... When he's Marshalling, I'm just a player...

But I Marshal the League, so my word is law...

Outside of "Making a call", discussion is welcome. We've quite often had beers and kicked around things between games and discussions on the Facebook page about rules...

But once a Call is Made. The Call is Made. Arguments and pouting are not tolerated beyond that point - by players or by me, because its just poor sports...

I certainly understand that it doesn't work that way for everyone... But its a way that works, if nothing else...

It may be a product of the fact that our "league" is a pseudo campaign, anyway... We get the occasional drop-in player, but for the most part, we have a group that are used to playing against each other, so they're used to structure and rules... (Which I shake up with new things like a few rounds of Take the Station to keep everyone honed...)

It was probably a bad choice on their part to allow people to shuffle upgrades around their fleet. A simpler approach would have been to say you can add upgrades but you can never subtract them (just like titles are now). Surely it removes the min-max fiddling people like to do, but it would have saved a lot on rules ambiguities.

Yeah. I see this campaign as a kind of modified escalation league.

Start with a core buy, and buy more ships and/or upgrades over time. You can't ever un-buy upgrades but you can shuffle them around.

The entire book talks about 'your fleet.' At no point is it referred to (nor implied to be) as the things you can make your fleet from when it's time to battle. It's your fleet, period. Upgrades that you purchase, whether you've de-equiped them or not, are still part of 'your fleet.' 'Your fleet' has a limit of 500 total points. You can't get more than 500 points and only use what you want. There is no option for doing that because you spend resource points on new ships, squadrons and upgrades for 'your fleet.'

It seems very simple to me, but then I've never had the 'rules lawyer,' 'try to find the loopholes' mentality.

All of this being said, this is not designed to be a 'competitive' format, so agree with your group on how it will be handled and have fun!

Edit: The 'rules lawyer' comment was not intended as a shot at anyone. More as a commentary on the fact that my brain sees 'rules as intended' far more than 'rules as written' a lot of times.

I'd go with the 167. Upgrading a fleet is not the same than creating it. If you can break the "one card per ship" rule after the first round (by adding some or redistributing some), then you can add squadrons in the limit of the "max fleet point" wich is 500.

BUT @Slasher, i'd disagree: your cards even unequiped, are still on your fleet list, so do count in your fleet "value". And that value is capped... to 500. Only reason to not place a card is when you're positive about it being destroyed in the upcoming game and want to spare it (mmm, they seem to target my scared Interdictor... lets save the G8). Nothing is written about "removing" cards from your fleet list, as nothing is written about "not deploying" squadrons and ships.

I'd go with the 167. Upgrading a fleet is not the same than creating it. If you can break the "one card per ship" rule after the first round (by adding some or redistributing some), then you can add squadrons in the limit of the "max fleet point" wich is 500.

BUT @Slasher, i'd disagree: your cards even unequiped, are still on your fleet list, so do count in your fleet "value". And that value is capped... to 500. Only reason to not place a card is when you're positive about it being destroyed in the upcoming game and want to spare it (mmm, they seem to target my scared Interdictor... lets save the G8). Nothing is written about "removing" cards from your fleet list, as nothing is written about "not deploying" squadrons and ships.

I agree with everything except the cards not equipped counting. I do not see it so much as saving the card, but more trying different things, or having options to try and deal with different fleets.

Upgrade cards are bought with the same resource pool as your ships. Upgrade cards are bought as part of 'your fleet.' It is illogical to say that they magically come off of the fleet list simply because you unequip them. There is no provision in the rule book stating that items bought for your fleet don't REALLY count as part of your fleet unless you use them. I just don't see the logic in believing that you can somehow save fleet limit points by choosing to not use something that is part of your roster. It sounds like people are trying to turn this into a 'Sidebar' like in Magic. This is not something Armada allows for, and nothing in the CC rulebook changes that. Literally ALL it says is that you can unequip upgrades. Period. That's all it says. Stop trying to attach more meaning to that than there is spelled out.

Or talk to your group and agree to allow it to work that way. Because, this isn't a competitive format, so that's an option.

I am in agreeance, I certainly looked too far into that - and willingly admit it

Upgrades can be left "off", but they're still part of your fleet.

You can't sell, dismiss, or throw away anything. You can put it on a ship and have the ship explode to get rid of it, if your opponents cooperate.

Sorry for the resurrection.

I just finished reading the CC guide, where are people getting that the squadrons have been boosted to 167?

Sorry for the resurrection.

I just finished reading the CC guide, where are people getting that the squadrons have been boosted to 167?

500/3=167 (rounded up)

That's the max you can get, since the pt cap is 500.

Sorry, I meant why do we use 500 as the universal limit when a fleet may only be 2 Corvettes and a flotilla.

Does this mean you can wind up with less a fleet and more a collection of squadrons with a flotilla tagging along?

Edit: or is this for simplification as it would be obnoxious math otherwise?

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

I don't think it as simple you all think.

The problem is your fleet can be any number. If my 400 point fleet has 134 of squadrons and I loose a 120 IsD. My fleet will only be 266. If nothing else died. So now I have to pull 46 points of squadrons points off the table. Which now makes my fleet 220 and I would have to pull more squadrons off the table.

There is no way to stick to the 1/3rd rule.

There is.

Your Fleet build is based on potential points.

AT the start, its 400. The book explicitly states you build a a fleet point total of 400 points.

After your first game, and moving forward, its 500. Because now you can build up to 500 utilising your Resource Points.

That's how you stick to the 1/3rd Rule.

I mean, let us face it - in the current game, if you build a 380 Point list..... How many Squadrons can you have? 134pts, becuase your Fleet Build is 400 - Even if you choose not to use it.

I believe this is the intent of the rulebook.

It actually says this very clearly it just doesn't follow it up with a deeper explaination because the standard rules apply.

Its pretty simple

1. At the start of the game your fleet limit is 400 points and using the 1/3rd rule you can have 134 points of squads.

2. After that your fleet limit is 500 points which puts your squad limit at 167 points.

How many points your fleet actually is at any given point during the match or the rest of the campaign is completely irrelevant, which is why its not mentioned. You don't lose squads in the middle of a game if one of your ships blows up, the campaign is just an extension of the game. The only shift is that your fleet limit is 500 points after the initial fleet is built.

There is absolutely no other way to interpret this without changing the standard rules and if its not a stated exception in the expanded rules, the standard rules stand solid as oak. I doubt they will ever even FAQ this.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Because that's standard rules.

You agree upon a point level.

That level is what your squadrons are based on.

The "Agreed limit" for the Corellian Conflict, after the first game, is 500 points.

The only difference being is that the campaign has set it as a limit, rather than a separate agreement amongst players.

I figure it's one of three:

1. squads stay at 134 points (400/3) my preference
2. after first round squads become limited to 167 (500/3)
3. after first round squad limit becomes 1/2 of the ship & commander costs as built (which becomes 1/3 of total) and the total must be under 500. In this case I would assume you have to abandon squadrons in the event you can't replace capital ships to full value while not taking squadron losses

I can think of no reason the squadron limits would ever apply, though?

The pg 5 'build fleets' rule does seem pretty clear that the initial 400 point fleet must 'follow the fleet-building rules found on page 6 of the Armada rules reference...', which would indeed limit fighters to 134 points of that initial fleet.

However, pg 11 'refit and expand' only says of fleet changes over time... 'each player may spend resource points (not refit points) to add new ships, squadrons, and upgrade cards to his fleet. A fleet's total value may drop below 400 points but cannot exceed 500 points.'

There is nothing indicating any limits, there. Unlike page 5, where the rules specifically say you use the standard building rules for your initial fleet (with exceptions) - there is no indication of any limits on fighters here, at all. (Limits on other things, sure - cannot un-equip or re-equip a title, etc - but not on squadron purchases)

I guess I'm curious why folks think there is a limit on how many squadrons you can buy using the pg 11 'refit and expand' rules?

It's the rules of fleet building that dictate how many points can be tied in fighters. These restrictions (can't's) can only be overridden when a card or ability explicitly says you can.

For example. No where do the rules of retrofit say I can't give my ISD-I two copies of Quad Turbo Lasers (the counter 1 upgrade) but the rules of fleet building say you can't so you can't.

To be a little more absurd: There's no CC rule that says a dog can't be Fleet Admiral, but if you read the core rule book you'll see what is and is not allowed to be.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Because that's standard rules.

You agree upon a point level.

That level is what your squadrons are based on.

The "Agreed limit" for the Corellian Conflict, after the first game, is 500 points.

The only difference being is that the campaign has set it as a limit, rather than a separate agreement amongst players.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Rules reference, page 6

"A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons"

You have 400 fleet points. You are not obligated to spend all of them, but there is a limit on how many can be spent of fighters.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Rules reference, page 6

"A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons"

You have 400 fleet points. You are not obligated to spend all of them, but there is a limit on how many can be spent of fighters.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Rules reference, page 6

"A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons"

You have 400 fleet points. You are not obligated to spend all of them, but there is a limit on how many can be spent of fighters.

Fleet points. Not potential fleet points. Rules reference also states that first player is chosen by the one with the lowest fleet points. That rule proves there is a distinction between fleet points and potential fleet points.

I challenge you determine a Percentage of your Fleet points, and what your maximum allowed is, when you can modify the original amount by adding or subtracting to the second.......

You can't do it. Not without some serious mathematics.

One of those values has to be fixed.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Rules reference, page 6

"A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons"

You have 400 fleet points. You are not obligated to spend all of them, but there is a limit on how many can be spent of fighters.

Fleet points. Not potential fleet points. Rules reference also states that first player is chosen by the one with the lowest fleet points. That rule proves there is a distinction between fleet points and potential fleet points.

I challenge you determine a Percentage of your Fleet points, and what your maximum allowed is, when you can modify the original amount by adding or subtracting to the second.......

You can't do it. Not without some serious mathematics.

One of those values has to be fixed.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Rules reference, page 6

"A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons"

You have 400 fleet points. You are not obligated to spend all of them, but there is a limit on how many can be spent of fighters.

Fleet points. Not potential fleet points. Rules reference also states that first player is chosen by the one with the lowest fleet points. That rule proves there is a distinction between fleet points and potential fleet points.

That's not what it says though, it actually says:

"The player whose fleet has the lowest total fleet point cost chooses which player is the first player"

So the distinction the rules makes is between fleet points and fleet cost. The total fleet cost isn't used as a factor in determining squadron price.