Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Rules reference, page 6

"A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons"

You have 400 fleet points. You are not obligated to spend all of them, but there is a limit on how many can be spent of fighters.

Fleet points. Not potential fleet points. Rules reference also states that first player is chosen by the one with the lowest fleet points. That rule proves there is a distinction between fleet points and potential fleet points.

That's not what it says though, it actually says:

"The player whose fleet has the lowest total fleet point cost chooses which player is the first player"

So the distinction the rules makes is between fleet points and fleet cost. The total fleet cost isn't used as a factor in determining squadron price.

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Rules reference, page 6

"A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons"

You have 400 fleet points. You are not obligated to spend all of them, but there is a limit on how many can be spent of fighters.

Fleet points. Not potential fleet points. Rules reference also states that first player is chosen by the one with the lowest fleet points. That rule proves there is a distinction between fleet points and potential fleet points.

That's not what it says though, it actually says:

"The player whose fleet has the lowest total fleet point cost chooses which player is the first player"

So the distinction the rules makes is between fleet points and fleet cost. The total fleet cost isn't used as a factor in determining squadron price.

We are reading this two different ways. I see it as your fleet costs this much, where as I am guessing you read it as how much of the fleet points you spent. My point of view is if I tabe 478 points then my fleet points is 478. I think this is the core of the argument and I do not see conclusively a definition of an individuals fleet point being seperate or tied to the agreed upon limit other than shall not exceed.

Let me try something else, tell me where you disagree.

As a permissive rule set the game gives you 400 points to build a fleet.

You spent 100 of those points on fighters. You still have 300 fleet points, and less than one third of your fleet points have been spent on fighters.

You spend 100 points on ships.

Your fleet costs 200 points. You have 200 fleet points unspent.

I also don't see anything that allows you to drop squads if you were to somehow be over your percentage after a bad couple games.. In fact the opposite is true, you can't drop ships or squads. What were you going to do in this case?

It seems clear to me that you are to assume 500pts limit when determining squad point limit after the first game.

I also don't see anything that allows you to drop squads if you were to somehow be over your percentage after a bad couple games.. In fact the opposite is true, you can't drop ships or squads. What were you going to do in this case?

It seems clear to me that you are to assume 500pts limit when determining squad point limit after the first game.

This ^^

But also, since Armada's inception, every single tournament held - including those held by FFG and not just a FLGS - have not disqualified lists for having 134 points of squadrons but only 390 points overall in the list. (or 100 pts of squadrons and 290, back in prehistoric Wave 1 times...)

That suggests to me that the overall limit - not the current point cost of your fleet - is what matters for squadron limits. Otherwise, tournaments - at least high-level ones like Nationals and Worlds - would have made it explicitly clear that it did not work that way.

How does this question differ from the one answered in the FAQ?

"Q: During fleet- building, how many fleet points can a player spend on squadrons?

A: A player can spend up to one third of the fleet point total,rounded up. For example, if playing a 200-point game, a fleet could contain 67 points of squadrons, even if the total cost of that fleet was only 190."

Well, when you build a standard fleet, you build to a specific point limit and your squadrons can be 1/3 of that limit. If you are builing a 400 point fleet, but only build 370 because you want to guarantee your choice of 1st or 2nd player, you still get to have 134 points in squadrons (rather than 124), because your 'limit' is 400. We are using the same logic here. Your fleet 'limit' jumps to 500 after the initial build, which means the squadron limit is 1/3 of that, or 167. It doesn't matter whether we've built all the way to 500 or not, that's the limit, and the squadron portion of that is 1/3.

Personally, I'm missing the part where it says to use 1/3 of your possible fleet point limit vs 1/3 of your actual fleet cost.

Rules reference, page 6

"A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons"

You have 400 fleet points. You are not obligated to spend all of them, but there is a limit on how many can be spent of fighters.

Fleet points. Not potential fleet points. Rules reference also states that first player is chosen by the one with the lowest fleet points. That rule proves there is a distinction between fleet points and potential fleet points.

That's not what it says though, it actually says:

"The player whose fleet has the lowest total fleet point cost chooses which player is the first player"

So the distinction the rules makes is between fleet points and fleet cost. The total fleet cost isn't used as a factor in determining squadron price.

We are reading this two different ways. I see it as your fleet costs this much, where as I am guessing you read it as how much of the fleet points you spent. My point of view is if I tabe 478 points then my fleet points is 478. I think this is the core of the argument and I do not see conclusively a definition of an individuals fleet point being seperate or tied to the agreed upon limit other than shall not exceed.

Let me try something else, tell me where you disagree.

As a permissive rule set the game gives you 400 points to build a fleet.

You spent 100 of those points on fighters. You still have 300 fleet points, and less than one third of your fleet points have been spent on fighters.

You spend 100 points on ships.

Your fleet costs 200 points. You have 200 fleet points unspent.

Once again, you have failed to understand or address my question. What you say is accurate only IF you assume that YOUR fleet points are equal to the decided upon fleet point limit. I am trying to introduce you to a different possibility that your fleet points may be equal to your fleet point cost rather than fleet point limit. I am asking you to defend your decision that your fleet points are tied to the limit rather than what you have. I am not arguing with you, I am just asking you where the rules state the definition of a specific players "fleet point". I do not believe this definition has been made and therefore it can be interpreted in one of two ways. I am of no opinion on which is correct, I am only asking you why you think your interpretation is right.

I also don't see anything that allows you to drop squads if you were to somehow be over your percentage after a bad couple games.. In fact the opposite is true, you can't drop ships or squads. What were you going to do in this case?

It seems clear to me that you are to assume 500pts limit when determining squad point limit after the first game.

Simple, don't drop them. Simply don't table them. Choose which ships to bring, divide that point total by 2 and you bring up to that much in squadrons.

I am looking at this a little bit of a thematic way. An aircraft carrier can hold apx 80 aircraft, but the U.S. Navy has far more than 80 aircraft in its inventory. If it wants to bring more aircraft to the fight, then it needs to bring another carrier. The fact that it has more than 80 aircraft in its inventory is irrelevant.

One could make the argument about hyper drives but then that just brings us down the rabbit hole of this many points can be hyper drive equipped and this many points cant.... Not to mention, if the game worked thematically as if squadrons hyper drived in, then what would be the point of the limit anyways?

I also don't see anything that allows you to drop squads if you were to somehow be over your percentage after a bad couple games.. In fact the opposite is true, you can't drop ships or squads. What were you going to do in this case?

It seems clear to me that you are to assume 500pts limit when determining squad point limit after the first game.

This ^^

But also, since Armada's inception, every single tournament held - including those held by FFG and not just a FLGS - have not disqualified lists for having 134 points of squadrons but only 390 points overall in the list. (or 100 pts of squadrons and 290, back in prehistoric Wave 1 times...)

That suggests to me that the overall limit - not the current point cost of your fleet - is what matters for squadron limits. Otherwise, tournaments - at least high-level ones like Nationals and Worlds - would have made it explicitly clear that it did not work that way.

I don't believe this is conclusive for what the definition of fleet point is, however it is at least relevant to my original question, more importantly than that; it certainly sets a precedence for future use in the absence of a formal definition.

How does this question differ from the one answered in the FAQ?

"Q: During fleet- building, how many fleet points can a player spend on squadrons?

A: A player can spend up to one third of the fleet point total,rounded up. For example, if playing a 200-point game, a fleet could contain 67 points of squadrons, even if the total cost of that fleet was only 190."

Nailed it. I digress.

This thread needs to be locked kr deleted. Tbis issue has been settled.