Maybe someone has a different interpretation, but this seems like if you have to stick to the 33% rule, could become very complicated or time consuming.

If I loose a ship or squadrons and my fleet total will go down and I could end up having to pull squadrons off the table even though they are not destroyed.

And then when expanding your fleets, it seems like a lot of work to recalculate squadron totals for each little point you go above 400.

because you are not just adding to your fleet total and then buying upgrades. You add to your fleet total by buying ships and upgrades.

OR...after your initial fleet build is the 33% rule out the window?

it only says in your initial fleet build do you need to follow fleet building rules. It does not say that when you are expanding your fleet.

I'm pretty sure in one article it said there was a way to go above your squadron limit, but I could not find it in the rules, unless the 33% does not count after initial fleet build.

I'm hoping I missed a rule some where.

I'm pretty sure in one article it said there was a way to go above your squadron limit, but I could not find it in the rules, unless the 33% does not count after initial fleet build.

If your opponent attack one of your bases, you can pick a Base Defense objective. One of those gives you 40 points of extra squadrons. The card specifically says that you can exceed the normal squadron limit with these.

But the rules don't say that expanding your fleet via the Resource Points needs to follow the fleet restrictions. However, I suspect that a FAQ will say that you don't lose squadrons if you lose a ship and that you simply can't buy squadrons until you've repurchased you lost ships (or the equivalent).

i would imagine the squad cap would be the 1/3 of 500pts (167pts) since thats the max you can go period. With the base defense objective allowing you to reach 200pts.

You build to 400 points at the start. It explicitly states that the Fleet Build Point and Limit is 400 to start with...

So certainly, before your first game, you should not be breaking 134 points of Squadrons.

after your first game, well, thats where stuff gets Nebulous. It does not officially state it. In fact, here's me typing out the section:


After removing scar ID tokens, each player may spend resource points (not refit points) to add new ships, squadrons and upgrade cards to his fleet. A fleet's total value may drop below 400 fleet points, but cannot exceed 500 points.

At which point, I would want to suggest you default to the absolute wording in the rulebook...

• A fleet cannot spend more than one third of its fleet points, rounded up, on squadrons.

But in doing so, you set yourself in a bit of a circular conundrum... What is your limit if you don't know your absolute limit? Can I call my fleet a 405pt Fleet if I want to squeeze in 135 points of Squadrons?

So yes... after initial Building, after your first game, that is when I would sugges,t if you're going to go for the 500 "Limit" build, then do it then....

Don't start with a 400 Fleet in 500pt Build Limit... because you're specifically told to build to 400.

O take it you build a 400 point fleet with 134 for sqaudron.then can increase it to 500 with that extra 100 going to all squadrons

So 500 and 234 pf squadrons

O take it you build a 400 point fleet with 134 for sqaudron.then can increase it to 500 with that extra 100 going to all squadrons

So 500 and 234 pf squadrons

No.

Respect the Rulebook.

What's 1/3 of 500?

Squadrons should never be more than that number. Because you can build your fleet to that limit, after the first game.

I don't think it as simple you all think.

The problem is your fleet can be any number. If my 400 point fleet has 134 of squadrons and I loose a 120 IsD. My fleet will only be 266. If nothing else died. So now I have to pull 46 points of squadrons points off the table. Which now makes my fleet 220 and I would have to pull more squadrons off the table.

There is no way to stick to the 1/3rd rule.

There needs to be a rule that the 1/3rd rule stays at 400 points even if your fleet goes below. Or 500 if it goes above 400.

I don't think it as simple you all think.

The problem is your fleet can be any number. If my 400 point fleet has 134 of squadrons and I loose a 120 IsD. My fleet will only be 266. If nothing else died. So now I have to pull 46 points of squadrons points off the table. Which now makes my fleet 220 and I would have to pull more squadrons off the table.

There is no way to stick to the 1/3rd rule.

There is.

Your Fleet build is based on potential points.

AT the start, its 400. The book explicitly states you build a a fleet point total of 400 points.

After your first game, and moving forward, its 500. Because now you can build up to 500 utilising your Resource Points.

That's how you stick to the 1/3rd Rule.

I mean, let us face it - in the current game, if you build a 380 Point list..... How many Squadrons can you have? 134pts, becuase your Fleet Build is 400 - Even if you choose not to use it.

Wait, I thought the 33% rule was based on a point cap, not the actual value of your fleet.

Like if I had a two hundred point inititive bid, that wouldn't stop me from having 100 points of squadrons and 100 points of ships.

I'm not so sure. I don't have my book but there is a rule that says your fleet points can go below 400. It does not say it's still considered 400 or 500.

It says it could go below 400 and be built up to 500.

But if that's how it works it would make it simpler.

Honestly, unless you're in fan of being caught in a mathematical recursive loop of additiona nd subtraction and - heaven forbid - quadratic equations to work out the current point limit to squadron cap, and not inadvertently break your head....

Its easiest to say "At the start, I build to 400, because the rules say to build to a Fleet Build Limit of 400. I get 1.3rd of that as Squadrons."

And then, afte ryour first battle go:

"My maximum Fleet Build Limit is now 500. I get 1/3rd of that as Squadrons."

- as the FourDogs states and I attempted to reinforce earlier - your Point Bid - how far you are UNDER your limit is irrelevant, your Fleet Build Limit is to what you base your Squadron Percentage on....

Also, there is no initiative bid in CC, it's based on attacker/defender, so the only reason not to have 500 points at all is you don't have the resources, so your squad limit after r1 should be 1/3 of 500 no matter what your actual fleet size is

Okay this is how its going to go.

You make a 400pts fleet with 134 points of squadrons,

But as you only are allowed to have one upgrade card per ship to begin with you would:

1) Start to Unscar Ships and Squadrons.

2) Add extra upgrades to your ships, to bring them up to the combat standard you prefer or are used to have, during tourney or casual play

3) Add new squadrons and ships.

So when you reach the point of buying new squadrons, you would most likely have added enough in upgrades to compensate for adding extra squadrons beyond the 134pts mark.

And if you loose a ship or two, that you where unable to unscar, would you not like to buy new ships first, before squadrons?

As otherwise it would leave you vulnerable to an easy defeat, remember if you only have squadrons left on the table you loose the battle per default at the end of the status face of a game round.

So what if you manage to have a 250pts of fighters in your fleet, you still need to have ships to control them, in order to make them +100% effective, and in my past experience, if you have to many squadrons for your ships to control, some is often left leaderless and out of the fight.

And too few ships leaves you open to be defeated easily by having them quickly blown away.

So its a question of the right balance... from my point of view

So I say go ahead make a fleet with 450pts of fighters and two flotillas, a well balanced force would just quickly hunt down those two flotillas and take what ever beating the squads might make.

Honestly, unless you're in fan of being caught in a mathematical recursive loop of additiona nd subtraction and - heaven forbid - quadratic equations to work out the current point limit to squadron cap, and not inadvertently break your head....

Its easiest to say "At the start, I build to 400, because the rules say to build to a Fleet Build Limit of 400. I get 1.3rd of that as Squadrons."

And then, afte ryour first battle go:

"My maximum Fleet Build Limit is now 500. I get 1/3rd of that as Squadrons."

- as the FourDogs states and I attempted to reinforce earlier - your Point Bid - how far you are UNDER your limit is irrelevant, your Fleet Build Limit is to what you base your Squadron Percentage on....

This far and away makes the most sense.

The more I read the rules the more I don't think it's either 400 0r 500 fleet points.

The final battle you will add up total fleet point cost of destroyed enemy ships and squadrons.

If I'm facing 2 fleets and 1 is 456 points an another is 475 points. I get 456 + 475 for victory points not 500 or 400 each.

Think we definitely need some clarification on how many squadron points you get and when to calculate.

Saying it's 134 or 165 does seem the simplist. But seems kind of silly that you get 134 for 1 battle and then 165 for the rest of the campaign.

One other way of looking at it to split it - your Fleet Build limit and your actual fleet cost are two separate things.

Thus, you start with a 400pt build limit with 134 Sq pts. If, after the first battle you then buy an extra (say) 45 pts for your fleet the following situation occurs: Your fleet build limit is now 445, you can have 147 Sq pts BUT your fleet does not have to reflect this - you could only purchase upgrades, sqds etc up to 441 but your build limit would stay at 445 regardless of what ships etc you actually have in your fleet.

Then, further down the line, you purchase another 30pts for your fleet - your build limit is now 475 with max 157 Sq pts but your actual fleet will be any number equal to or less than 475.

I would house rule it. Before the campaign starts, agree to how you want to do squadron limits after the first round. I feel the actual Correlian Campaign is more for the casual players. i feel as more people play a lot more questions will come up about the campaign. I am sure our group will set the limit to 167 points of squadrons after the first round. Since you are playing with a group of friends I would just keep it simple.

You could argue that other than the initial 400 point fleet build, there are no limits on fleet composition after that.

I think it's more likely that other than the initial setup, the squadron limit would be linked to 500 as per campaign rules. It shouldn't matter if it goes up and down, the limit is still based on the highest allowed.

I'm hoping to house rule 134 point max. That way we can have another 100 points for ships, instead of trying to fit more squad synergy in.

Personal preference from a player who always runs max squads.

I figure it's one of three:

1. squads stay at 134 points (400/3) my preference
2. after first round squads become limited to 167 (500/3)
3. after first round squad limit becomes 1/2 of the ship & commander costs as built (which becomes 1/3 of total) and the total must be under 500. In this case I would assume you have to abandon squadrons in the event you can't replace capital ships to full value while not taking squadron losses

I figure it's one of three:

1. squads stay at 134 points (400/3) my preference
2. after first round squads become limited to 167 (500/3)
3. after first round squad limit becomes 1/2 of the ship & commander costs as built (which becomes 1/3 of total) and the total must be under 500. In this case I would assume you have to abandon squadrons in the event you can't replace capital ships to full value while not taking squadron losses

I can think of no reason the squadron limits would ever apply, though?

The pg 5 'build fleets' rule does seem pretty clear that the initial 400 point fleet must 'follow the fleet-building rules found on page 6 of the Armada rules reference...', which would indeed limit fighters to 134 points of that initial fleet.

However, pg 11 'refit and expand' only says of fleet changes over time... 'each player may spend resource points (not refit points) to add new ships, squadrons, and upgrade cards to his fleet. A fleet's total value may drop below 400 points but cannot exceed 500 points.'

There is nothing indicating any limits, there. Unlike page 5, where the rules specifically say you use the standard building rules for your initial fleet (with exceptions) - there is no indication of any limits on fighters here, at all. (Limits on other things, sure - cannot un-equip or re-equip a title, etc - but not on squadron purchases)

I guess I'm curious why folks think there is a limit on how many squadrons you can buy using the pg 11 'refit and expand' rules?

I figure it's one of three:

1. squads stay at 134 points (400/3) my preference
2. after first round squads become limited to 167 (500/3)
3. after first round squad limit becomes 1/2 of the ship & commander costs as built (which becomes 1/3 of total) and the total must be under 500. In this case I would assume you have to abandon squadrons in the event you can't replace capital ships to full value while not taking squadron losses

I can think of no reason the squadron limits would ever apply, though?

The pg 5 'build fleets' rule does seem pretty clear that the initial 400 point fleet must 'follow the fleet-building rules found on page 6 of the Armada rules reference...', which would indeed limit fighters to 134 points of that initial fleet.

However, pg 11 'refit and expand' only says of fleet changes over time... 'each player may spend resource points (not refit points) to add new ships, squadrons, and upgrade cards to his fleet. A fleet's total value may drop below 400 points but cannot exceed 500 points.'

There is nothing indicating any limits, there. Unlike page 5, where the rules specifically say you use the standard building rules for your initial fleet (with exceptions) - there is no indication of any limits on fighters here, at all. (Limits on other things, sure - cannot un-equip or re-equip a title, etc - but not on squadron purchases)

I guess I'm curious why folks think there is a limit on how many squadrons you can buy using the pg 11 'refit and expand' rules?

Because the 'total value' of a fleet cannot exceed 500 points, and squadron limits are 1/3rd of the total fleet value, or limit.

I figure it's one of three:

1. squads stay at 134 points (400/3) my preference
2. after first round squads become limited to 167 (500/3)
3. after first round squad limit becomes 1/2 of the ship & commander costs as built (which becomes 1/3 of total) and the total must be under 500. In this case I would assume you have to abandon squadrons in the event you can't replace capital ships to full value while not taking squadron losses

I can think of no reason the squadron limits would ever apply, though?

The pg 5 'build fleets' rule does seem pretty clear that the initial 400 point fleet must 'follow the fleet-building rules found on page 6 of the Armada rules reference...', which would indeed limit fighters to 134 points of that initial fleet.

However, pg 11 'refit and expand' only says of fleet changes over time... 'each player may spend resource points (not refit points) to add new ships, squadrons, and upgrade cards to his fleet. A fleet's total value may drop below 400 points but cannot exceed 500 points.'

There is nothing indicating any limits, there. Unlike page 5, where the rules specifically say you use the standard building rules for your initial fleet (with exceptions) - there is no indication of any limits on fighters here, at all. (Limits on other things, sure - cannot un-equip or re-equip a title, etc - but not on squadron purchases)

I guess I'm curious why folks think there is a limit on how many squadrons you can buy using the pg 11 'refit and expand' rules?

Because the 'total value' of a fleet cannot exceed 500 points, and squadron limits are 1/3rd of the total fleet value, or limit.

According to what?

You only use the 1/3 limit when building your initial fleet, sure (pg 5). There is no limit on squadrons when expanding your fleet that I can see, though (pg 11). Those two things are different processes that use different rules. The only time that squadron limit seems to trigger, again, is if you 'retire the fleet' (pg 13) - looks like you are back to 1/3 of 400 pts as your squadron cap, once more.

So you are contending that when you Refit your Fleet, you have effectively no limits?

Because to take the argument to absurdity (which seems to be the trend here)

"A Fleet cannot spend more than 1/3rd of its fleet points on squadrons" is a dot point on fleet building. This is the only place where the squadron limit is mentioned.

If we assume that we are not paying attention to anything in this section because we're not outfitting a fleet, we're upgradinga fleet.. Then we don't even look at the points costs of cards anymore, because the fleet point cost of each ship, squadron and upgrade is printed in the lower right corner

Oh, and we don't have to worry about fleets must be rebel-aligned or imperial aligned, because that's part of that section, too...

Yes. It is that absurd. Does it really answer the question though? No, no it does not. And I doubt we'll get anything specific to it.......

My Opinion:

- The Corellian Conflict must adhere to the standard rules for fleet building when upgrading a fleet - otherwise those fleets would never be legal. There is no balance step to check for fleet legality because it is assumed it is legal.

The 500pts limit is legal inherently in the rules, because the fleet building steps tell us that we can build a fleet to any amount of points agreed upon by the players (and agreeing to play the Corellian Conflict sets a 500pt limit after the first round).

The subsequent rules on the composition of the fleet does not change.

Choosing to ignore a single section because its not specifically stated, opens the door to changing a lot of other factors - ignoring the section on Rebel Aligned and Imperial Aligned is one... It may refer to Rebel Admirals and Imperial Admirals in the Campaign booklet....

The only logical and sensible way to move forward, is to assume, after your initial fleet build, you gain an additional 100 points of "Fleet capacity"... 33 points of which (as we rounded up in the first 400) can be spent on Squadrons... There is no requirement, to, of course, but it is at least a capability that you entail.

If the Squadorn Limit was to stay at 134, then you would not be able to "Add new squadrons" to your fleet. You could only replace destroyed ones... I mean, if I start with 134, and I have no capability to add, then why say I can add?

Honestly, the argument is quite invective - the rules have been set out so people can come together in a friendly manner and play games - expecting everything to be beaten down in hardened minutia is... counter-productive to the friendly nature inherent to and of a Campaign, versus a Tournament.

So you are contending that when you Refit your Fleet, you have effectively no limits?

Not 'no limits', just the limits outlined in the CC rulebook.

Specifically:

Then we don't even look at the points costs of cards anymore, because the fleet point cost of each ship, squadron and upgrade is printed in the lower right corner

Not so, page 11 of the CC notes you 'may spend resource points' to 'add new ships, squadrons, and upgrade cards' to your fleet. So clearly the costs are referenced.

Oh, and we don't have to worry about fleets must be rebel-aligned or imperial aligned, because that's part of that section, too...

Also in the CC rulebook, page 5 - '...divided into two teams of opposing factions - the Galactic Empire or Rebel Alliance'. Seems pretty clear that the two teams must be of different factions.