Hey guys, it's me again. Incoming rant - maybe you know players like this.

So our HotAC campaign, which I spent more than a month printing, cutting and preparing didn't go over so well with my group of 5 in general.

I'm interested to hear your opinion on the etiquette for these kind of organized events and what you would do about a 'problem' player.'

2 of the players were really really good, attentive and co-ordinated, which were the best parts of the night. It felt like how it was meant to be played. Now, anyone who has read my previous posts knows that I had my doubts about 1 player in particular, who seems to have a stigma against the game (despite owning some ships). But I gave him the benefit of the doubt and went ahead with the evening.

I have to say, the lack of attentiveness from this player alone kind of snowballed and affected the whole session. He sat back with his arms folded between turns, which communicated he was disinterested from the start and sat on his phone (Reddit, Amazon etc.) for the vast majority of the time. Not only was he not paying attention (which mean repeating myself 5 or 6 times in a row or pressing him to take his turn), but he reached a point in the night where he decided it was time to distract other people by showing them 'funny' YouTube videos - multiplying the problem.

Am I crazy or is this really rude (I was deemed crazy for mentioning this by a few people)? I know getting distracted is a temptation we all deal with from time to time, but this seemed to reach brand new levels of apathy/not giving a single crap. I did bring this up from time to time but his excuse was "well it's not my turn, so I don't need to look." Seriously..? Surely we all need to be aware of the board state, otherwise I waste time when you decide to return to us explaining what happened in your absence. Lack of interest is one thing; deliberately conveying (through body language and attitude) that you have no respect for the person who put the event together or what we're doing is another. At certain points I had to wonder.. why are you even here?

He has 2 main sticking points with this game, from what I can tell:

1) He blames dice rolls.

We ask what his maneouver is and (after looking up from his phone, still in his hand) he says things like "yeah, straight one - whatever." If you are not taking care with your moves and don't get an action (lowering your efficiency drastically), you don't get to complain about dice rolls.

2) He tunes out when it's not his turn.
Another friend tried to justify this to me, but I'm not buying it. You can't just tune out when it's not "your turn", treating it like an I-go You-Go system. In X-Wing there are a lot of things to be wary of; enemy movements AFTER you've moved, the final state of the board etc. And from a non-gameplay perspective, what's the point in only paying attention during your turn? You're missing the whole teamplay aspect of the Campaign.

*Important* Why am I not letting this slide? Well, first off, it's a recurring pattern. This person in particular hosts D&D and MTG for us and is VERY quick to tell you off if he thinks you're not listening or if you touch or move anything (never mind sitting on your phone for 90% of the time). Now, I don't mind these games, but I don't overly enjoy them either (MTG especially) - I still make the effort. I engage and ask questions and don't let my lack of enthusiasm (for whatever reason; tiredness, bad day etc.) taint the experience for everyone else. It is not a hard thing to do, it's courtesy.

My problem is, when it's his thing, we bend over backwards to accommodate it. When it's anything else, the interest drops from 100% to almost 0. I guess considering the time and expenses I put into making this happen, it rubs me the wrong way to have it thrown back in your face - especially considering the effort we put into his events.

In summary, the night was an exercise in frustration and disappointment and I doubt I will get another session with the group as a whole again. Which is a pity, because the times where I and 2 others were focused and co-ordinating it was really fun (the third player made an effort but was easily distracted by the problem player). The best I can hope for is to continue with the others, but I have a feeling they won't go for it without the 'problem' player attending, despite his obvious stubbornness. I only have a handful of friends, so I don't to rock the boat - but at the same time, it kinda feels like I was crapped all over when the others defend this behaviour. I'm made to feel like the bad guy for having a problem with this.

Thoughts? What would you guys do about this?

Why not show him the actual game instead? Might keep him more interested.

Why not show him the actual game instead? Might keep him more interested.

Same problems apply. We've been playing standard for the last year.

The co-op aspect was intended to generate more interest, but it changed nothing.

*He even owns ships, so his lack of interest is even more puzzling. He likes RPGs too, so... I don't know. It's anyone's guess.*

To be honest, after one night of these kind of antics, I would be quite clear, honest, and up front with the individual (i.e. confront him).

If he isn't interested in playing, and confirms such, I wouldn't invite him anymore.

Life's short. Move on.

If he doesn't want to play and has the social skills of a brick then play without him. Maybe have a session without him and bring an actual brick to sit in his place, as it would make for a better session.

He's just an *******.

You'll find them in all parts of life, including unfortunately the hobby world. Someone who demands that everyone respect him, while giving no respect to anyone else.

Tell him clearly, on the off chance that he doesn't know this is how he acts. Then move on if it doesn't get better.

That guy would annoy the hell out of me. If you don't want to play don't play. If you commit, put in the effort. I'd sit down and talk to him, let him know that his behavior severely detracted from your ability to enjoy the game and see if he is actually interested in playing. If he wants to keep on, he's gotta actually play. If he doesn't, don't force a square peg into a round hole.

Try to convey all that without attacking him tho, as best you can. People put on the defensive react poorly.

I know both problems. "Not my turn, not my business" and "Funny vids" distraction problem. My playgroup is just a group of friends, we play many games. I had 2 problematic playmates. First of all, it might be hard, understand them even if they are wrong. This behavior comes from not being interested in the game but being interested in playing with you or spending time with your playgroup. And people who lack skill and understanding of the game and lack time to improve want to blame something, so they blame dice. What can they say? I suck at this game, but i want to play co-op with you? Not really. There are 2 simple solutions.

1) Make him interested. Show other formats, play bad lists, suggest watching rebels show, r1 or tfa to them. Teach him how to play again, but in better way. And add a simple rule. You can't get off the table. This way your friend after chosing the maneuver wont go away to play hearthstone on his phone and say 'if there are any rolls to make, call me'. And most important - NEVER EVER ADVISE HIM HOW TO PLAY DURING THE GAME. Just after. Because this way he wont ever get interested, because he is not the one doing the plays. It's you.

2) Dont invite him. Simple as that. Play other games with him, do something diffrent. X-wing is not a game for everyone.

Yeah I must not really understand the situation here because my thoughts are why even invite him. Especially if you know he has a history of doing this? Or you are asking how to deal with bad sports at an event? Calling him out may end disastrously, but it sounds like that's your only other choice besides ignore him.

1. Call him out. In front of everyone.

2. Call him out privately. Write a letter or something.

2. Ignore him

3. Don't invite him.

Carrot vs. stick, my man. He digs role play, then role play the campaign. Use call signs, create a backstory for your pilots. You may find you like the game better too. Dangle that carrot... wait, that sounds awful...

If he doesn't want to play and has the social skills of a brick then play without him. Maybe have a session without him and bring an actual brick to sit in his place, as it would make for a better session.

This sums it up perfectly. Hobby gaming is a fundamentally social activity. Like anything social, you have to use your discretion when deciding who to spend your time and effort with, and if some one makes something unfun then the easy solution is to have fun without them. It's clear that this player doesn't enjoy HotAC (and that's fine--not everyone needs to enjoy every gaming experience), but I presume talking to him about his attitude would just make him defensive and prove unproductive. So just schedule the next night without him. If he finds out and gets offended, just tell him you assumed he would not be interested in continuing because he clearly did not enjoy the game the first time you played. I've flat-out told people before "Gaming is meant to be fun, and you are not a fun person to play with."

As "geeks" I think we're all somewhat sensitive to issues of exclusion, and no one wants to shun people. But there are legitimate and illegitimate reasons for not including someone in something. Too many gaming groups, leagues, clubs, etc. die because a socially toxic individual is allowed to continue to keep attending and spreading their misery and lack of enjoyment with the rest of the players. This is a sure-fire way to make players start dreading that tonight might be the night they have to play 'that guy' and eventually people's enthusiasm will stop being enough to bring them out for miserable evenings against 'that guy.' And then 'that guy' will hover around the game store waiting for the next gaming group or event he can join in and be miserable about. Because 'that guy' literally has nothing better to do and feels obligated to be a 'gamer' and feels like it's a part of his identity, even though he rarely draws enjoyment from it and lacks the requisite social graces to be a positive member within a gaming community.

Basic new-age self-help advice always says something like "Ain't nobody got time for negative people." It's no less true in gaming, especially so because it's where we spend our free time seeking enjoyable escape from the stresses of life. Negative people suck. Don't let them ruin your fun. Because some people will always have a negative about certain things, no matter how much you bend and cater and try to appease them. It's not worth the trouble. Just hop into your cockpits without him next time and have some fun blasting some TIEs together.

This person is incredibly rude. He's ruining your effort and everyone else's experience as well. I wouldn't waste any effort trying to gain his interest, as if you were a kindergarten teacher trying to reach a small child. I'd ask him one time whether he's interested in playing this game or not. After that he'd be out. The phone thing is especially egregious, but unfortunately phone zombies are all around and the horde is growing.

My gaming time is too limited and valuable as it is, people that don't play well with me and others don't get invited back. Pretty simple, move on and forget about him.

I would just talk to him privately and say that you noticed he wasn't too into the game.

If he says he wasn't really into it you might ask why or what could be done differently to get him interested. Or you could suggest to him that if he's not interested it's ok if he doesn't want to play (that allows him the opportunity to bow out instead of you kicking him out).

If he says that he was interested then politely as possible explain how the things he did negatively affected the group. This one is tough because the people I know who act like that are the type who are quick to get defensive. It's a tricky thing to confront these types of people this way regardless of how delicately you try to approach them.

Good luck!

I know his type all to well. He is being an annoying ****, because you are not playing what he wants. How dare you play something he doesn't approve of. Personally I would shovel it back in this face when he was on the phone and not paying attention. The best thing to do would be to play without him if the other guys are onboard, and that goes for every other game as well. His ass needs to get kicked to the curb.

I'll be honest, if he isn't interested in playing, don't invite him to play. If he's enjoyable company with other games you like playing, then go ahead and play with him then. But you don't have to invite him to everything if he's not into it.

I agree with those who say kick this player to the curb.

What obligation do you have to include this player? If he's not interested ditch. Play with the 2 who are into it. Have them fly 2 ships each and move on.

Life is too short.

3 ships is perfectly fine for playing too, so don't feel like you need to do anything too janky to make it work.

Part of his behavior I can understand. With Heroes there's a lot of dead time between turns and unless you're really into the game and have the ability to focus you're in trouble. If he's a 10 yo I can see the behavior on the phone. Ruining it for everyone else? Completely unacceptable.

Have a face to face with him alone. Explain that his behavior is not acceptable and give him the choice; actively participate or stay home.

The game is too good and life too short to tolerate this behavior.

If he's your friend, find out if he has other things in life bothering him. Maybe his behavior is tied to being depressed or unhappy.

If not, one of two things: Tell him you don't appreciate his behavior, and if he doesn't change he won't be invited. Or just don't invite him. The game plays just as well with 3 players as it does with 4, and you can always have people fly more than one ship. My first campaign was just my buddy and I testing the mechanics flying 2 ships each (An X and a Y each to test them). We had plenty of fun.

Everyone has pretty much said it all. Don't be a doormat, if he wants to act like a 5 year old treat him like one. Depending on how forceful you are that can mean anything from a public debasing to simply ignoring him and his tantrums and not invite him. The choice is yours.

I hope you give HOTAC another chance. Without that guy.

I hope you said something at the time. At least like, "Hey Joe, are you playing or what?" at which point most people would straighten up & fly right.

If that didn't fix things, I'd ask him if he minded if someone else fly his ship. If he says "No" then I'd follow up with something like "Joe, you've got to pay attention to the game. It's not fun when you've checked out. Come on, let's play Star Wars! Pew! Pew! Pew!"

Laser sounds optional.

I host games of Zombicide with a group of guys at my church. Sometimes everyone is engaged and things are clicking and we can play 2 or 3 games in a single session. Other times, people aren't paying attention and have to be prodded along. It makes it nooooo fun, especially if you're trying to run the game. In those cases, I just tell people if this game is not your thing, that's okay. We can still hang out, but don't feel obligated to come if you're not into it.

I like the suggestion of emphasizing the role-playing aspect of HotAC. That sounds like it's more your guy's speed, so play to that strength. Maybe put him in charge of playing atmospheric music and sound effects if that will keep him engaged, and it will add to the experience. Or if he has trouble focusing if he's not DMing, have him run the game.

I often have the same sort of problem with players. A serious pet peeve of mine is when gaming (roleplay, x-wing, whatever) falls out at the same time as a sports game. "We're gonna put the game on. We'll keep the volume low."

Except when everyone gets distracted by some replay on TV.

OTOH, your problem seems several levels of magnitude greater. Gaming is a social contract. . .he's is ruining it for the whole group, repeatedly, in numerous different ways. Kick him to the curb and play on without him. You are supposed to be having fun, not getting frustrated.

Hook up with his wife. That'll show him to be more attentive.