I faced Mindlinked Fenn and Teroch backed up by Manaroo with Ryad, Vessery and OL and I still manged to kill them for only the loss of OL.

Hey, could you specify what was in your list exactly? I've faced mindlinked Fenn backed by Manaroo and Ventress and got beaten hard twice. My list was Vessery on crack, Ryad with juke and TIE/Mk. 2 engines and Inquisitor with PTL, AT and title. I haven't even destroyed a single ship... I think I haven't flown that bad, but maybe I didn't know how to prioritize targets.

Its good.

As some one who only plays his brother our him self I guess I just dont see thing like other gamers do

I'm starting to sense a pattern...

Also anyone else read the thread title like Seinfeld?

"What's the deal with Defenders?"

I faced Mindlinked Fenn and Teroch backed up by Manaroo with Ryad, Vessery and OL and I still manged to kill them for only the loss of OL.

Hey, could you specify what was in your list exactly? I've faced mindlinked Fenn backed by Manaroo and Ventress and got beaten hard twice. My list was Vessery on crack, Ryad with juke and TIE/Mk. 2 engines and Inquisitor with PTL, AT and title. I haven't even destroyed a single ship... I think I haven't flown that bad, but maybe I didn't know how to prioritize targets.

Sure:

36 Ryad (34), PTL (3), /x7 (-2), Tie Mk2 (1)

35 Vessery (35), Juke (2), /x7 (-2)

29 Omega Leader (21), Comms Relay (3), Juke (2), Stealth Device (3)

Omega Leader went down surprisingly quickly. I think my opponent blinked at her reputation as a late-game finisher and prioritised her. Normally a fair move but against the /x7 tag-team that is Ryad and Vessery, it was a mistake as it allowed me to start putting damage on the Fangs faster than he was putting it on the Defenders.

Ryad's ability to pull variable length K-turns was crucial. I knew my opponent had the 4K and 2T but they give him stress which meant no repositioning moves. This meant that provided I could weather the initial joust, I could control range better on the 2nd and subsequent passes, even with lower PS. Part of it was luck in judging when my opponent would 4K and when he would 2T but asteroids and my lower PS ships usually allowed me to make safe guesses as to where he would end up.

As some one who only plays his brother our him self I guess I just dont see thing like other gamers do

If you dont have to worry about that, my advice.. dont worry about it!

As some one who only plays his brother our him self I guess I just dont see thing like other gamers do

With such a limited 'meta' your games are probably unlike anyone elses. What you and he like to fly with define everything. In the wider scene, especially competitive xwing there are definitely shifting hierarchies to consider.

If you dont have to worry about that, my advice.. dont worry about it!

or, if you want to worry, just focus on beating evade results

which aren't limited to x7s, but it's kinda their thing atm (esp with palp)

and really, why wouldn't you try to beat those spiteful little green assholes what take your involvement right outta the game anyway

I guess all not worry about it as we dont really abuse rules to take advantage of each other

Playing according to the rules is not "abusing" them.

I guess all not worry about it as we dont really abuse rules to take advantage of each other

No one here is abusing anything. It's just the game.

That said, not worrying about the hyper competitive stuff sounds just fine e as I said earlier.

As long as you are both having fun that's all that matters.

If your gaming partner comes across one of the game power combos and smashes you with it remember though.. he isn't abusing anything he's just found something powerful to use.

A lad in our local meta is using a x3 X7 line up at the moment, he flies them well....But let's face it, as long as you fly them at 3,4 or 5 speed, they fly themselves. The white K turns to boot, make repositioning even easier and more threatening to enemies, with the extra evade. Don't forget you get the evade whilst stressed too!

I used a fun Rebel Synergy list the other day which I put together, cutting to the chase....I lost 2 of the 3 ships fairly quickly, whilst managing to kill 1 defender. This left Poe against 2 full life defenders in the end game....I was rolling hits as if my dice were weighted, and I was also getting lucky on defence by managing to regen with the focus at the end of my turn, so I put up a **** good fight. From about a 1/3 of the way through I started to count the amount of hits I rolled with Poe, I rolled 18 hits across around 5-6 rounds, do you want to know how many went through? 1.

I flew my nuts off with Poe, having to make him work harder than I have ever worked a ship, and I got absolutely no reward from it. The game went on for ages and we called it, and obviously he had killed more than I had. The point is, he didn't even need to break a sweat all game.

And from my point of view that is game abuse

If me and my brother ever ran across something that was one of the top comb's and curb stop each other our what have you we would not be using it again am sorry we both like to win but just doing it in fair like is not cool

A lad in our local meta is using a x3 X7 line up at the moment, he flies them well....But let's face it, as long as you fly them at 3,4 or 5 speed, they fly themselves.

I do remember a game v mindlink Rau, manny and Zuckuss where I ran two x7s (glaive and vess) and Backdraft

the x7s, I kid you not, unleashed some four-five consecutive white 4-ks because it was later in the evening and I was tired and saving my brainpower for the SF

still won

disclaimer, though, in that Vess got absolutely wrecked

and, really, backdraft won the game

(oh hey, this is the first and only time I got the SF double-tap. I remember rolling two blanks on manny )

so idk

I do feel they are among the most forgiving ships in the game (nowhere near as mindless as fat han in his hayday, though), but sometimes you need that to take the edge off and cruise through a game or two

besides, if your opponent knows what they're doing, it doesn't really matter how forgiving they are

...well, as long as the dice aren't full of ****

I understand the love for x7 Defenders, And I get why Palp was so awesome when paired with Intercetpor Aces, but I don't see the need for Palp with Defenders. 3+ green dice + a focus and an evade means that on average you're going to stop a lot of damage. And the 3 shields + 3 hull means that if your dice really flub you are still in the game. Palp was the guarantee against dice flubbing on other imperial aces that died after only 3 damage and likely also relied on a stealth device. Which meant the goal was to get them as close to impossible to hit as you could. Palp was really nice in that situation. But you don't need Defenders to be impossible to hit. Because they actually can take a pretty good amount of punishment.

Palp my be 7 points, but the shuttle he rides around on cost 21 at least. 28 points. I can have a whole mother Defender for that.

I guess I just dont get palp and how his ability is so good change one dice just dont seem that great our am not understanding the card

Ok, I understand this. However, that one dice makes all the difference on certain ships. It is all about the guaranteed evade factor on valuable ships.

I am a Dash player, I have been a YT-2400 fanboy since the Shadows of the Empire N64 video game.

Dash (in the Outrider) has a 4 dice shot in that 360 degree donut. Which is awesome, 4 dice are fairly capable of hitting most naked ships at least once per turn. (Roughly speaking)

Now take a Soontir Fel. 3 evade dice naturally. Plus auto-thrusters gives him 1 guaranteed evade (against a turret), he can take an evade token which is another guaranteed evade, then you add Palpatine and that is 3 guaranteed evade dice! That is most ships firepower! Soontir Fel can get a guarantee evade against a single ship once per turn on most ships. Plus his focus and a stealth device makes him extremely hard to hit, even with 4+ dice, even when you out fly him, to get him in your arc.

With Dash you have to roll all 4 hits just to even have a chance of hitting a Soontir Fel supported by Palps. Even when you do get all 4 dice hitting, the chance he rolls one evade is pretty likely. (Not to mention Fel's awesome Arc Dodging ability that I am not even factoring in.)

That is just one example.

Palp list do have weaknesses, as you point out, it is only one dice. So the more ships the opponent has, the less effective Palps will be. But that one dice per-round on the average 100 point game is a much bigger factor than it sounds. Especially when used on evades.

(PS I am not complaining, since that is the nature of the game, I enjoy crafting list to take down the top meta.)

I understand the love for x7 Defenders, And I get why Palp was so awesome when paired with Intercetpor Aces, but I don't see the need for Palp with Defenders. 3+ green dice + a focus and an evade means that on average you're going to stop a lot of damage. And the 3 shields + 3 hull means that if your dice really flub you are still in the game. Palp was the guarantee against dice flubbing on other imperial aces that died after only 3 damage and likely also relied on a stealth device. Which meant the goal was to get them as close to impossible to hit as you could. Palp was really nice in that situation. But you don't need Defenders to be impossible to hit. Because they actually can take a pretty good amount of punishment.

Palp my be 7 points, but the shuttle he rides around on cost 21 at least. 28 points. I can have a whole mother Defender for that.

Now, while I am defending Palp's use with Defenders, I do prefer grabbing the x7 Delta myself as well.

I understand the love for x7 Defenders, And I get why Palp was so awesome when paired with Intercetpor Aces, but I don't see the need for Palp with Defenders. 3+ green dice + a focus and an evade means that on average you're going to stop a lot of damage. And the 3 shields + 3 hull means that if your dice really flub you are still in the game. Palp was the guarantee against dice flubbing on other imperial aces that died after only 3 damage and likely also relied on a stealth device. Which meant the goal was to get them as close to impossible to hit as you could. Palp was really nice in that situation. But you don't need Defenders to be impossible to hit. Because they actually can take a pretty good amount of punishment.

Palp my be 7 points, but the shuttle he rides around on cost 21 at least. 28 points. I can have a whole mother Defender for that.

It's all about guarantees. Defenders are able to take some damage, but keeping those hit points for late game isn't a bad option. Also, with Defenders, you can use Palp more consistently for damage output. Also, you have the psychological effect of Palp on opponents, which should give your defenders more time to chew up the opposition.

Now, while I am defending Palp's use with Defenders, I do prefer grabbing the x7 Delta myself as well.

Maybe if I flew with Palp more I would like him, but I think I would rather take another 3 attack dice attack over 1 guaranteed dice roll.

I do give my Defenders Preditor for that extra offensive pow.

I also worry about my opponents hunting down the shuttle.

I understand the love for x7 Defenders, And I get why Palp was so awesome when paired with Intercetpor Aces, but I don't see the need for Palp with Defenders. 3+ green dice + a focus and an evade means that on average you're going to stop a lot of damage. And the 3 shields + 3 hull means that if your dice really flub you are still in the game. Palp was the guarantee against dice flubbing on other imperial aces that died after only 3 damage and likely also relied on a stealth device. Which meant the goal was to get them as close to impossible to hit as you could. Palp was really nice in that situation. But you don't need Defenders to be impossible to hit. Because they actually can take a pretty good amount of punishment.

Palp my be 7 points, but the shuttle he rides around on cost 21 at least. 28 points. I can have a whole mother Defender for that.

It's all about guarantees. Defenders are able to take some damage, but keeping those hit points for late game isn't a bad option. Also, with Defenders, you can use Palp more consistently for damage output. Also, you have the psychological effect of Palp on opponents, which should give your defenders more time to chew up the opposition.

Now, while I am defending Palp's use with Defenders, I do prefer grabbing the x7 Delta myself as well.

Maybe if I flew with Palp more I would like him, but I think I would rather take another 3 attack dice attack over 1 guaranteed dice roll.

I do give my Defenders Preditor for that extra offensive pow.

I also worry about my opponents hunting down the shuttle.

Predator is a solid choice.

The enemy hunting the shuttle can be used to the player's advantage. If they're focusing on a less offensively focused target, the other vessels can start hammering the enemies. there is a problem if the shuttle dies quickly, but if it can survive for about 3 turns or more, it can be a worthwhile distraction.

As far as the Fang vs Defender debate goes, it's hard to rely on anecdotal pieces of evidence to determine who has the advantage. When using the 'Parrattani' list, I have never lost to Defenders in a tournament (And let's face it, there are always a lot of them). Even defenders can't shake off modified 5 dice attacks turn after turn. In addition, Fen and Asajj can catch and drop the shuttle very quickly, far faster than the Defenders can catch and kill Manaroo.

However, it seems that a lot of people here flying defenders have yet to lose to Fang lists.

The solution? Go have a look at the regional results thread. There's plenty of evidence there showing that Fang lists (Especially Mindlink variants) can beat Defenders, and that Defenders can beat Fangs. It's a fun and challenging matchup for both sides, and I believe that the win goes to the person who played that particular match better, which is what X-wing should be

mindlink Fangs can do it

without mindlink...well PTL is just stupid predictable after playing as many games against Fel as I and the majority of my local group have

(wave 7 store champs, first four consecutive wins were palp aces)

but mindlink manny? hell, that's some mods

and at range one Rau, you're sporting the same "evade" + focus...and then another focus...and then another red and green dice

without even factoring in the PS difference, you can see that mindlink Rau can easily stack up to x7s

mindlink Fangs can do it

without mindlink...well PTL is just stupid predictable after playing as many games against Fel as I and the majority of my local group have

(wave 7 store champs, first four consecutive wins were palp aces)

but mindlink manny? hell, that's some mods

and at range one Rau, you're sporting the same "evade" + focus...and then another focus...and then another red and green dice

without even factoring in the PS difference, you can see that mindlink Rau can easily stack up to x7s

Yeah, not a fan of PTL on Fen. Part of the reason that Mindlink Fen is so good is that he almost always has the full dial available to him. Being stuck into 2 turns makes it harder for him to close into range 1 of his chosen target, and makes him a lot more predictable, too.

mindlink manny is also just too **** funny

note, not Rau (because everyone here uses Rau, to the point where I faced him four consecutive rounds in a five round tournie) but same principle

behold: "how not to give a **** about hotshot co-pilot + gunner"

(note those are all foci; didn't have my tokens )

mindlink manny is also just too **** funny

note, not Rau (because everyone here uses Rau, to the point where I faced him four consecutive rounds in a five round tournie) but same principle

behold: "how not to give a **** about hotshot co-pilot + gunner"

(note those are all foci; didn't have my tokens )

How does Mindlink Xizor go for you? Who else have you got alongside him (besides Manny)?

mindlink manny is also just too **** funny

note, not Rau (because everyone here uses Rau, to the point where I faced him four consecutive rounds in a five round tournie) but same principle

behold: "how not to give a **** about hotshot co-pilot + gunner"

(note those are all foci; didn't have my tokens )

How does Mindlink Xizor go for you? Who else have you got alongside him (besides Manny)?

oh excellently, but only against the one opponent I had who wanted to practice hotshot Cheri and an x7

3 games, only ever lost the scout

Xizor (mindlink, fcs, virago, thrusters)

Manny (mindlink, feedback, int agent/unhinged)

Scrub Scout (mindlink, 4-lom, plasmas, extras, g-chips)

scrub scout could be zuckuss (pilot), but I kinda like jm5ks not giving a goddamn about mindlink stress