I think Whisper can be run just fine on his own.

If you're planning on making regular TIE Phantoms a thing I would not leave home without at least one or two TIE Advanced to give them something to hide behind when necessary.

Yeah seems to me they'll be most effective as a kind of 'battle line', they're designed to stay in that ideal range 2 band where they can't be engaged (and are free to zoom off and do other things if needed), while something else locks the enemy squadrons down.

I feel like they might be even better interceptors than interceptors. Pop out of a ball in order to lock something down that got by.

The poor guys are pretty underwhelming in this meta with so many other options. We might have to wait for another shift for them to get played besides Whisper. I could see these guys showing up in lists that take advantage of stations/obstacles but that's about it.

I've built a fleet with a TIE Swarm led by Howlrunner and Whisper.

I call it "2 Girls, 1 Cloak"

I feel like they might be even better interceptors than interceptors. Pop out of a ball in order to lock something down that got by.

In that specific role, yes. I find the name of Interceptors leads people to think that they actually are meant for intercepting things, were on the table they are air superiority and alpha-strike monsters.

Problem with the cloak ability is that it does not add anything to the survivability of the Phantom, contrary to the cloak concept people came up with on KDY. You also have to wait (and survive) till the end of the squadron phase to actually get some milage from it, and as a 4-HP squadron with no special evasive capability you are not exactly hard to kill. And on top of that, its a speed-1 move, so the situations were you will be able to engage that one enemy squadron that managed to trench-run and might obliterate your ISD with one remaining HP if you cannot engage it at the end of the squadron phase will be seldom, at best.

Oh, and there is more. Current squadron composition almost always incorporates some source of intel, so your tricky cloak move to engage stuff only works outside of that intel bubble.

Current best use I see is as Dras depicted, jump the Phantoms in late with a squadron command to finish off something, then jump on to the next target at the end of the squadron phase. Effectively saving on Intel, however only your Phantoms benefit while the rest of your squadrons heavily suffers.. we will have to see if that is a thing in wave 5.

Speed 5+ for phantoms, 6+ for Whisper, built-in Intel … if they survive.

Since squadron direction is not as important in Armada (they all have 360 PWTs) reposistioning or in this case "slippery" doesn't seem that much of an advantage especially when there are other traits like grit and intel that keeps your squadrons from getting all tied up.

IMHO I think cloak should have been a defensive token instead. And the Phantom should have been the only non-ace squadron with a defensive token.

I think the ability should read: "At the begin of the Squadron Phase ...

I feel they should have swarm at least for that much points.

Lack of a clear role kills them for me, I'm better off with a cheap tie and some intel.

They seem more like a finesse squadron than a hammer squadron. I expect Phantoms to be the most difficult squadron to master of all the new ones. Otherwise you are pretty much paying 14 points for a Tie/I without Counter and Swarm.

I think Phantoms will be best a 2nd player. Imagine you are running against your standard Rhymerball or Yavaris BS. It's the end of round 3, your squads are engaged with the bomber escorts and are locked down. They have an Intel within range of your squads and you know the bombers are going to make a break for it as soon as 4th round comes around. But you have Phantoms, and with Cloak you can escape Intel, but still engage the enemy bombers. Your opponent has a choice to make. Expose their Intel to move 1 or 2 bombers, or focus on killing the Phantom. Easy enough with an X-Wing or E-Wing, but chances are it will take 2 activations to kill the Phantom. Your turn comes around, and you can bolster your squads and pin your opponent from multiple angles.

Phantoms don't want to be shot at. Run them with Scatter aces that draw aggro, like Soontir or Mauler, or with the new Tie/E. Bomber fleets typically have 2-3 turns of full bomber support to deal their damage. Phantoms help mitigate that.

Aye. Phantoms are defencive space holders. Always where the enemy doesnt want them. Shoot phantoms not the ships.

Basically how i used to use tycho

Aye. Phantoms are defencive space holders. Always where the enemy doesnt want them. Shoot phantoms not the ships.

Basically how i used to use tycho

Yeah well, except that Tycho has a scatter and a brace and a better ability for 2 pts more a base Tie Phantom.

Aye. Phantoms are defencive space holders. Always where the enemy doesnt want them. Shoot phantoms not the ships.

Basically how i used to use tycho

Yeah well, except that Tycho has a scatter and a brace and a better ability for 2 pts more a base Tie Phantom.

You can have more than 1 Phantom though.

I think the ability should read: "At the begin of the Squadron Phase ...

Wait a minute ... it should read: At the end of your activation ...

This way you could fly in, attack and pull out - if activated by a squadron command. This way it would at least feel like a sneaky cloak fighter.

Aye. Phantoms are defencive space holders. Always where the enemy doesnt want them. Shoot phantoms not the ships.

Basically how i used to use tycho

Yeah well, except that Tycho has a scatter and a brace and a better ability for 2 pts more a base Tie Phantom.

You can have more than 1 Phantom though.

True. But really, I like the model and the concept, I'd love to love them, it's just the points cost that sets me down.

Aye. Phantoms are defencive space holders. Always where the enemy doesnt want them. Shoot phantoms not the ships.

Basically how i used to use tycho

Yeah well, except that Tycho has a scatter and a brace and a better ability for 2 pts more a base Tie Phantom.

You can have more than 1 Phantom though.

True. But really, I like the model and the concept, I'd love to love them, it's just the points cost that sets me down.

Well I think this is the beginning of the anti-bomber meta, so if you are running like 80 points of anti-squad, putting 1 or 2 in isn't terrible.

Tycho has always felt like he needed a wingman. Whisper and the new interceptor will be great. Added phantoms for taste

14 points seems high for them.

Simply adding "Snipe 3" would have been perfect, and a nice thematic connection to being able to cloak.

I'm loving all the house rules to fix a squadron nobody has played yet.

I'm loving all the house rules to fix a squadron nobody has played yet.

Maybe if the squad gave you 14 points just to take it.... And give it bomber.

I'm loving all the house rules to fix a squadron nobody has played yet.

Because ppl are smart enough to imagine that the basic squadron is underwhelming.

I am a bit disappointed too ...

What I am worried about is the complaining that will be coming when a player has 4 of these and uses Cloak to move all of them to get in the "perfect" engagement spot. Much like the Soontir, Tie/A, Mauler stuff people complain about.

And squad shuffling. This is going to rustle some feathers I expect.

I think everyone here is glossing over the 2 red anti-ship dice.

Your mean expectation is 1 damage, and your range is 0-4. That's very hard to plan for as the other player, as there is high variance and these squadrons are a headache because of their ability to unexpectedly blast ships. Pair that with the ability to move at the end of the squadron phase (to either leave engagement so they can be squadron commanded next turn, to allow a 1-distance move before a 4-distance push to chase even speed 4 ships, or to chase slow ships so they don't even need squadron activations to continue bombing), what you have is a semi-rogue anti-ship attacker with an unusual engagement range and competence against ships.

This and the TIE defender are now the fighter-bombers of the Empire. Yes, it is good against squadrons but not great (Whisper might be insane, on the other hand). But it's also good against ships. And slithery.

The all-around threat profile is the real value.

I think everyone here is glossing over the 2 red anti-ship dice.

Your mean expectation is 1 damage, and your range is 0-4. That's very hard to plan for as the other player, as there is high variance and these squadrons are a headache because of their ability to unexpectedly blast ships. Pair that with the ability to move at the end of the squadron phase (to either leave engagement so they can be squadron commanded next turn, to allow a 1-distance move before a 4-distance push to chase even speed 4 ships, or to chase slow ships so they don't even need squadron activations to continue bombing), what you have is a semi-rogue anti-ship attacker with an unusual engagement range and competence against ships.

This and the TIE defender are now the fighter-bombers of the Empire. Yes, it is good against squadrons but not great (Whisper might be insane, on the other hand). But it's also good against ships. And slithery.

The all-around threat profile is the real value.

I agree with you, but not everyone sees the full potential in squads or are turned off by a certain thing. In this case, lack of counter and 14 points it seems.

Much like Y-Wings before Worlds. Some liked em, some didn't. Then everyone lose their mind when JJs pulled the win with Y-Wings. Now they are considered the gold standard by some people.

I'm excited for Phantoms. I know how I'm going to use them and I hope my opponent sees them as a waste so they are caught off guard when they are harder to deal with than expected.

"Much like Y-Wings before Worlds. Some liked em, some didn't. Then everyone lose their mind when JJs pulled the win with Y-Wings. Now they are considered the gold standard by some people."

Haha... yup, and Jon R. made A-Wings the gold standard from Worlds 2015.