Disclaimer: This thread is based purely on speculation since we've not yet seen any of the new squadrons in action.

I think Phantoms might be a bit underwhelming. The Cloak ability seems neat but I wonder how often you'll actually be able to use it. Cloak triggers at the end of the Squadron Phase but in the current squadron-heavy meta most enemy fighters are activated during the ship phase. Combined with only 4 hull I wonder how many Phantoms will actually be left standing at the end of the squadron phase to use their ability.

What do you guys think?

Yeah, I'm a little underwhelmed too. Their ability is hard to quantify. Whisper looks pretty solid though, since he can trigger a bamf immediately following an attack.

Disclaimer: This thread is based purely on speculation since we've not yet seen any of the new squadrons in action.

I think Phantoms might be a bit underwhelming. The Cloak ability seems neat but I wonder how often you'll actually be able to use it. Cloak triggers at the end of the Squadron Phase but in the current squadron-heavy meta most enemy fighters are activated during the ship phase. Combined with only 4 hull I'm wondering how many Phantoms will actually be left standing at the end of the squadron phase.

What do you guys think?

1 more Point an an X-Wing

1 more Move than an X-Wing

with

1 less Hull than an X-Wing

and

No Escort, which is good or bad, depending on your position - but in this case, they don't *have* to be targeted.

I think they'll do plenty.

Cloak, as a key rule in and of itself, is icing on the cake... As a First player, you're basically setting up your survivors for a second strike the next turn.... Without having to provide Intel for them.

Would I love it to be at the end of their activation? Absolutely... But I would struggle to find either points or players... Cloak is just icing, to me, and I'm instead paying 14 points for a fairly solid 4-die combat platform. If I manage my activatins well, I'm effectively not having to bring Intel to strike the targets I want.

I personally find it hard to justify the 3 pts. increase per squad compared to Interceptors...

I'm considering using them as a fighter screen, using cloak to either break engagement or initiate it, whichever is needed.

Yea their value seems to be derived from their tactical potential rather than straightforward stats. One way I want to use them is by using cloak to essentially jump over their squadrons screen and go straight for their ships. That way it forces their squads to stay away from my ships. Two red die without bomber is weird but it can also do potentially 4 damage..

You can also force your opponent to use squad activations to attack phantoms. For example if a phantom is in range 1 of 4 enemy squadrons it would probably be a good idea to use cloak to position the phantom to be in range 1 of only 1 enemy squadrons. That way your enemy is forced to activate the other 3 enemy squadrons if they want to shoot the phantom.

I think Whisper can be run just fine on his own.

If you're planning on making regular TIE Phantoms a thing I would not leave home without at least one or two TIE Advanced to give them something to hide behind when necessary.

TIE Phantoms in Legends were scalpels, not claymores. The cloak keyword allows them to be scalpels. Get in, attack, and get out.

TIE Phantoms in Legends were scalpels, not claymores. The cloak keyword allows them to be scalpels. Get in, attack, and get out.

I don't see them getting out though.

More like:

Get in, attack, get obliterated by E-Wing Snipe counterattack...

If the opponent uses squad commands.

Well, they're what, going 2-1, 3-1 to try to do that? I mean... 3 Blue Dice vs 4 Hull... Its at best 2... More likely 3... Occasionally 4...

If so, y'know. Points well spent on your end.

Since you reposition with your slightly cheaper squadrons and throw Four dice back.

TIE Phantoms in Legends were scalpels, not claymores. The cloak keyword allows them to be scalpels. Get in, attack, and get out.

I don't see them getting out though.

More like:

Get in, attack, get obliterated by E-Wing Snipe counterattack...

If the opponent uses squad commands.

I think to remedy this you use phantoms to attack squads that already activated. So at the end of squad phase they move out and your opponent is forced to waste activations to engage your phantoms. At that point you no longer need to waste squad commands on your ships because the enemy squads are coming to you. Although this won't really help against E-wings, but I guess we can consider them the "counter."

OK PSA guys, Whisper is a girl, at least according to X Wing. Sorry but it was bugging me.

I personally find it hard to justify the 3 pts. increase per squad compared to Interceptors...

Same here. No swarm, no counter. I have a feeling they originally had an "after attacking" move that didn't make it through play testing. I guess these guys could hang out on the station. I'm not sure what role they're supposed to fill.

I'm confused at the lack of love for them. As a rebel they are the thing I'm most worried about.

Being able to bounce around like that will be awesome

I'm confused at the lack of love for them. As a rebel they are the thing I'm most worried about.

Being able to bounce around like that will be awesome

This is kind of where I am.

Four Hull says "Dedicate to Kill me. You won't do it accidentally."

Cloak says "Dedicate to Kill me now, because next turn I'll be gone..." (Most probably in ur base, killin' ur d00ds, or something Empire-y)...

As a X-Wing player I am really disappointed in the Phantom. Although to be honest I am not sure how they could have translated what the Phantom does in X-Wing to Armada. It is unpredictable with cloak, and the whole point of Whisper (a female btw) or Echo is to fire first, then cloak for extra defensive dice; if they fire 2nd they are glass cannons without the cloak. They are 4 attack dice (highest of any ship), 2 agility dice (on the lower side) or if they are cloaked 4 agility dice, highest in the game. I have no good answer for how they should have been made, so I will not be negative about their ability.

As a X-Wing player I am really disappointed in the Phantom. Although to be honest I am not sure how they could have translated what the Phantom does in X-Wing to Armada. It is unpredictable with cloak, and the whole point of Whisper (a female btw) or Echo is to fire first, then cloak for extra defensive dice; if they fire 2nd they are glass cannons without the cloak. They are 4 attack dice (highest of any ship), 2 agility dice (on the lower side) or if they are cloaked 4 agility dice, highest in the game. I have no good answer for how they should have been made, so I will not be negative about their ability.

Its also very different when you're talking about Individual actions versus squadrons of things...

I think they're very much a practice with squad. It's going to take some time to use them just right and not have them just get obliterated. I was hoping for something a bit different for cloak but it's a good ability.

I see 1-2 of them behind Soontir and the Advanced and everything else. At end of round, adjust positions outside of intel bubbles to lock squads down.

Disclaimer: This thread is based purely on speculation since we've not yet seen any of the new squadrons in action.

I think Phantoms might be a bit underwhelming. The Cloak ability seems neat but I wonder how often you'll actually be able to use it. Cloak triggers at the end of the Squadron Phase but in the current squadron-heavy meta most enemy fighters are activated during the ship phase. Combined with only 4 hull I wonder how many Phantoms will actually be left standing at the end of the squadron phase to use their ability.

What do you guys think?

You sir are probably correct in you're assessment, but I've often noticed when the overall general view is negative before it comes out, when we get our hands on it it becomes great......To be. Continued! *Back to the future song*

I feel Phantoms have the potential to be nasty if you got the timing down with them, something I think I want to invest some thought into in the future. The hangup is that their cloak move is at the end of the turn, so immediately I can think they need to be activated last to bounce in, do their attacks, then cloak back out of range (or into friendly activation range) to begin the next turn not-engaged.

In the very least this prevents Yavaris from having fun with enemy squadrons. It forces the opponent to make an activation and push outward towards the Phantoms to get them engaged.

The "safe space" for the Phantoms could include Escorts to force shots elsewhere, or some Decimators/TIE INterceptors to start chewing up the pursuit force. I'd like to drop a Lambda or two in there as well, "Fortifying" that space with some activations. Maybe drop intel in there to let the Phantoms escape on their normal move to cloak back into the safety zone again.

In any case, Phantoms having that ability is something no other squadron can do. I think they're also one of the few (if only?) squadrons capable of putting 4 damage on a capital ship.

I don't know if this will actually end up mattering much, but they are the only non-rogue squadron to be able to move and shoot without being activated. the free move at the end may prove to be very valuable when squad commands aren't available.

when the squadron battle develops into a ball of fighters (which definitely happens sometimes) being able to move without intel after everything has activated might allow you to ignore the enemy intel and lock down bombers. cloak may be a nice way to avoid intel to a point, or at least force bomber fleets to bring multiple sources of intel.

I don't know if this will actually end up mattering much, but they are the only non-rogue squadron to be able to move and shoot without being activated. the free move at the end may prove to be very valuable when squad commands aren't available.

when the squadron battle develops into a ball of fighters (which definitely happens sometimes) being able to move without intel after everything has activated might allow you to ignore the enemy intel and lock down bombers. cloak may be a nice way to avoid intel to a point, or at least force bomber fleets to bring multiple sources of intel.

I think this may end up being the key to their effectiveness. They will probably still need a command to get them into the fight, but once there they might be fairly 'fire and forget'

I feel Phantoms have the potential to be nasty if you got the timing down with them, something I think I want to invest some thought into in the future. The hangup is that their cloak move is at the end of the turn, so immediately I can think they need to be activated last to bounce in, do their attacks, then cloak back out of range (or into friendly activation range) to begin the next turn not-engaged.

In the very least this prevents Yavaris from having fun with enemy squadrons. It forces the opponent to make an activation and push outward towards the Phantoms to get them engaged.

The "safe space" for the Phantoms could include Escorts to force shots elsewhere, or some Decimators/TIE INterceptors to start chewing up the pursuit force. I'd like to drop a Lambda or two in there as well, "Fortifying" that space with some activations. Maybe drop intel in there to let the Phantoms escape on their normal move to cloak back into the safety zone again.

In any case, Phantoms having that ability is something no other squadron can do. I think they're also one of the few (if only?) squadrons capable of putting 4 damage on a capital ship.

This is how I was picturing using them - dropping them in on a late activation as something of a "finisher", and with the option of moving them out afterwards. With four blue dice, they can do some serious damage to any already crippled squad, and they'll also make for a nice double tap alongside Colonel Jendon if you get your activation right.

But the cloak ability could also work really nicely to get your squadron into combat, ready for an alpha strike on the next turn. As much as it provides a means of escape, it can also help you to position yourself perfectly within the squadron battle. Since it ignores engagement, you could shift the Phantom away from an escort to attack a more dangerous target (moving away from Jan's X-wing escort, for instance, to line up for an attack on Jan herself).

And, if nothing else, it gives your fighter an extra distance one per turn when flying towards (or away from...) your enemy. I think they'll end up being the kind of squadron that people forget about at their peril.

They are great against squadrons without Rogue. If you get attacked you can move either out of range of the next attack or move to block the movement of another/other squadrons. Whisper is good...move onto stations/into debris and that really helps get a good brace mitigation or scatter.