The Arvus Lighter is a small shuttle craft mentioned in the DH Vehicle Apocrypha (Forge World do a model of it as well) and it is mentioned as being able to carry twelve passengers or "several tonnes" of cargo. My question is - do you think you could get a Rhino APC (or similar vehicle) in there?

I know that the scale of the models is often deceptive (I can't see how ten fully armed and armoured marines could squeeze into the current Rhino model), so I'm prepared to say (for the benefit of my scenario) "Yes it fits, but it's a squeeze. " (and apply suitable difficulties to the Drive (Ground Vehicles) or Trade (Stevedore) rolls to get it loaded without damaging either vehicle) - but I was wondering if anyone had any further knowledge or thoughts on the subject. I'd rather not fly in the face of canon (as I have some devout WartyK-ites in my group) if I can.

For more details on the ship itself see: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arvus_Lighter

I'd say no. I take your point about the scale of the models not being totally exact, but I still think the Arvus is too small to carry a Rhino. It might be able to carry ten or so guys, a couple of folded sentinels, or a cyclops controlled demolition robot or maybe three or four bikes, but not a large APC.

Bear in mind that even the Thunderhawk Gunship (a much larger shuttle) can't carry a Rhino. Marines use a Thunderhawk transporter for that.

I'd say that the amount of space in an Arvus is probably similar to that of a long wheelbase Ford Transit. Which, in my experience, means you'd struggle to move house using one, and probably hit a concrete bollard when you try to park the bl**dy thing...

Funny little fact:

The US Army new Stryker IFV was originally specced to be able to fit into C-130 air transport. It was tested and passed... kinda.

The thing they didn't notice before the vehicle was supposed to be deployed into Iraq was that Stryker had passed the test to fit into C-130 when running tires flat and all external weapons and antennas removed. This means that while it could , theoretically, be air transported actually getting it back into combat fit after unloading required several hours of repairs and refitting...

See what I'm getting at?

A Rhino won't fit. Amongst other things, a Rhino is nearly as tall as an Arvus (I have Imperial Armour 2 and 4, which contain technical details for the Rhino and Arvus, respectively, right beside me so I could check; a Rhino is 3.6m tall, an Arvus is 3.68m). From the diagram of the Arvus on page 115 of Imperial Armour 4, and the measurements on page 114, it looks like the cargo compartment is less than 3m wide (2.93m, approximately).

A Rhino is 4.5m wide. It simply won't fit.

That said, the Arvus is, as noted on page 113, frequently customised for other duties (variations exist that haul liquid cargo like fuel, or which have expanded cargo compartments), so it isn't inconceivable to imagine a customised or variant shuttle capable of carrying an Rhino. Or, as the Arvus is merely one of a variety of patterns and models of cargo shuttle in use by the Imperium, you could easily make up an entirely new type of shuttle that can fit an APC in the back.

It should be noted that 40k vehicles tend to be only 75% of thier proper size at scale but this applies pretty universally for all of them. So while the Arvus model is too small the Rhino model is too small by about the same amount.

Does it need to be an Arvus, there is thousands of patterns of lighter and lander in the Imperium. You can easily make one up that can transport a Rhino sized vehicle.

Kaihlik

Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far - it's very much appreciated

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Indeed - and that's what I'll end up doing. I do like Polaria's point about stripping the vehicle so that it fits though (I can't ever have things *too* easy for the Acolytes) so I may have the ship big enough to hold the vehicle, it's crew and their assorted gear but only if the Tech Priest strips it all down.

It then presents the issue that if they ever need a quick evac do they leave the ground craft behind? Plus their extremely zealous Tech-Priest may take issue with "dis-quieting " the APC's machine spirit too frequently. Any idea that promotes role-play or potential complications and challenges is good in my book.

It could be possible for it to carry one, just not inside of itself, by attaching it to the underside of the main hull.

BYE

That would kind of effect its aerodynamic characteristics somewhat. Also I don't think Rhino's are designed to survive re-entry. Really there seems to be no real reason to use the Arvus. Just make up something a bit bigger and modify the Arvus rules slightly.

Kaihlik

Kaihlik said:

They do every time they're used: Marines bring them planetside using external mounts on Thunderhawk Transporters. The Rhinos are mounted along the hull of the Transporter, grasped by clamps.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/thawktranport.htm

Thus presumably, they can and do survive re-entry...

Lightbringer said:

The larger equivalent of the Thunderhawk Transporter (used in Epic, capable of carrying 6 Rhinos or 4 Land Raiders) is described as using disposable heat shielding that fits over the transported vehicles during re-entry and is discarded during flight. I imagine similar constructions are used for the smaller-scale Thunderhawk Transporter, at least for Rhinos (Land Raiders have the same kind of heat-resistant composite armour that Thunderhawks do, just more of it, so it's less necessary for them). Presumably replacements can be fitted from components carried down from orbit at a later point for a vehicle's return to orbit (Astartes tactics are frequently based on swift deployment; being able to retreat to orbit quickly is a somewhat lesser concern).

There is so many other considerations when strapping something like a Rhino to an Arvus anyway than just could the Rhino surive it. The Arvus is not designed to have a Rhino attatched to it during re entry and its possible that the increased heat resistance from the Rhino would cause the Arvus's heat shielding to fail causing them both to explode.

1 cracked area of heatshield caused Shuttle Columbia to fail due to the immense heat or re entry, I cant imagine that strapping a Rhino to the bottom of an Arvis would not have a similar effect.

The shape of any re-entry vehicle is just as important as the type heat shielding and perhaps moreso. Dropping a Land Raider from orbit would cause it to break up regardless of its armour properties because its just not the right shape. What would probably happen to the Arvus if the Rhino could survive unaided would be that the areas at which the two were joined would experiance failure weakening the heatshield and causing both to fail.

And of course the massive extra weight would likely cause the Arvus to crash anyway if it did make it down.

Kaihlik

N0-1_H3r3 said:

That's interesting...I didn't know that! Where is this stated?

In the Epic Armaggeddon Rulebook found here . Its in section 5, the second download from the top, page 84 of the rulebook and 27 of the PDF.

Kaihlik

Kaihlik said:

I think aerodynamics work differently in the 40k universe. What with square edged wings and all, not to mention the thunderhark is a big flying block with squared wings.