The entire plot for R1 was a reverse engineered answer to the question "how do we explain such an obvious and dumb flaw in the Death Star?" Some things should stay a mystery. What's next, an entire movie dedicated to the Stormtrooper who smacks his head on the doorframe?

I would watch that. It would have to be closely linked to Jango doing it also.

Jux it's nice to know I'm not alone.

Never alone Hobo; more than one person can share the same opinion and still be wrong, after all. Like Brexiters. And Trump supporters...

The biggest reason for me to like TFA, as I've said before, is the scene where Leia arrives. The look she shares with Han bridges the gap for me and tells the story of their relationship. From that moment on she propels the movie (which I've also posted before, don't want to come across as jumping on a bandwagon).

This is crazy. So many people dissing Episode 7. Like - After episode 7 first came out everyone was praising it and there were very few naysayers. Now it feels like everyone's opinion has changed. Almost like it's the prequels all over again. This is crazy. It's like next year people will be trash talking Rogue one.

I stepped out of the theatre after seeing Rogue One and all I could think was "I need to shower myself in Episode VII." The conclusion that my friends and I drew after watching TFA was that the prequels failed not because of horrible dialogue and acting, but because they threw a light on all of the mysteries that made the OT special. I think that's more or less where we stand right now with Rogue One; it wasn't a story that needed to be told, and now that it has we're no better off for it. I agree with what you've said about TFA, and how it perpetuated the myth making that truly made the OT special. That was Star Wars, and I think given another year's time people will begin to see that Rogue One is no better than the prequels: a couple of cool fight scenes chained together with empty plot points and hollow characters.

Someone mentioned something about seamlessness, and I couldn't disagree more. The CGI of Tarkin and Leia, however you want to qualify it, completely spoiled the immersion. I just couldn't suspend disbelief at that point. The inclusion of Dutch and Hobbie, while cool (I cheered along with everyone else), was similarly spoiled by the obvious cut and paste job. For a moment during the movie I even wondered if they'd been yanked right out of ANH, and that's not a thought that should be crossing my mind mid-action. Immersion ruined again. And then there's Vader, who is an undisputed badass... and hours or days later in universe time, he's shambling around again like an old man fitted with four prosthetic limbs. I just couldn't put that image, Vader tearing through rebel troopers, side by side with any other scene from ANH. It wasn't seamless, it was severely disjointed. Trying to reconcile Rogue One with A New Hope is like watching the special edition Jabba scene from Episode IV and then skipping straight to RotJ. What we're left with is a movie that barely succeeds on its own, and only then by virtue of the last big fight scene, and certainly doesn't mesh with the rest of the trilogy.

This, this, a thousand times this.

I "liked" Rogue 1, but I liked it as a collection of action sequences. Movie-wise it hit a definite "meh".

Honestly it watched more like a collection of game cut scenes than a proper film. Which was fine, but it doesn't elevate it to OT standards to my eyes. Whoever said that all the stuff left off screen for us to imagine is what makes the OT good probably got it right.

Ep. 7 had a cut and pasted plot with inane details, but my emotional response to it was far better than R1. Not a "great movie" either, by any stretch, but a fun experience IRL. At the end of it I liked the characters more than I did the ones in Rogue 1.

For me, and this was probably the fault of my theater enthusiastically laying into the volume, but every locale change was accompanied by a harsh blast of the new score, to the point where a new planet was practically a jump scare.

At the end of the film the only characters we care about are Chirrut and K2, and that's because of funny one liners, not any particular development or arc or anything.

Tarkin and Leia are this year's Jar Jar. Tarkin would have been cool as a quick cameo, a reflection in a window would have been fine. Hell, having the actor just be himself as Tarkin would have been fine, he looked enough like him and played the part quite well. Hollywood has a long tradition of casting alternate actors to portray the same characters, I would not have had a problem with that. But the CGI puppet was distracting, disrespectful, and basically just godawful.

And frankly I prefer Daisy Ridley's acting to Felicity Jones any day. Regardless of how well the characters were written, Rey emotes far more convincingly and appealingly than Jan, and that's not some "this girl is prettier than that girl" bollocks. A thousand years from now when some Phrenologist unearths Daisy Ridley they'll be shocked by someone who is all forehead and teeth, but her ability to convey emotional context via facial expression is spot on.

I didn't hate it at all, I actually quite liked it, but I liked it because of space battles and splody stuff, the characters and plot were just so much noise. And if you notice, most of the folks who tout it as the missing link of Star Wars films are the same ones who rewound the fight scenes from the OT until their VHS copies wore out in those spots, (which was me too )

Well said.

The characters were really a big part of why I loved Episode 7. Especially the big 3. There were some weaker characters too, like Hux and Phasma - but there were really strong characters.

Adam Driver really sold the angsty rebellious young adult - and when he eventually redeems himself it's going to be amazing.

Daisy Ridley was spectacular. In every way. And I don't even think she's that attractive - it's really her performance that makes you fall in love with her.

John Boyega - My favorite. He's just the best.

Oscar Issacs - Dude started the whole thing off with a bang. He was funny and gung ho.

BB-8 - Everybody loves BB-8.

Harrison Ford - He single Handedly made the movie great. He is god.

In rogue 1 you had K2SO which was awesome, but after that it was just Chirrut Imwe with limited screen time, and to a lesser extent Cassian Andor, who was kinda cool.

...and people who think The Force Awakens was good. And climate change deniers. And UKIP...

This is crazy. So many people dissing Episode 7. Like - After episode 7 first came out everyone was praising it and there were very few naysayers. Now it feels like everyone's opinion has changed. Almost like it's the prequels all over again. This is crazy. It's like next year people will be trash talking Rogue one.

I stepped out of the theatre after seeing Rogue One and all I could think was "I need to shower myself in Episode VII." The conclusion that my friends and I drew after watching TFA was that the prequels failed not because of horrible dialogue and acting, but because they threw a light on all of the mysteries that made the OT special. I think that's more or less where we stand right now with Rogue One; it wasn't a story that needed to be told, and now that it has we're no better off for it. I agree with what you've said about TFA, and how it perpetuated the myth making that truly made the OT special. That was Star Wars, and I think given another year's time people will begin to see that Rogue One is no better than the prequels: a couple of cool fight scenes chained together with empty plot points and hollow characters.

Someone mentioned something about seamlessness, and I couldn't disagree more. The CGI of Tarkin and Leia, however you want to qualify it, completely spoiled the immersion. I just couldn't suspend disbelief at that point. The inclusion of Dutch and Hobbie, while cool (I cheered along with everyone else), was similarly spoiled by the obvious cut and paste job. For a moment during the movie I even wondered if they'd been yanked right out of ANH, and that's not a thought that should be crossing my mind mid-action. Immersion ruined again. And then there's Vader, who is an undisputed badass... and hours or days later in universe time, he's shambling around again like an old man fitted with four prosthetic limbs. I just couldn't put that image, Vader tearing through rebel troopers, side by side with any other scene from ANH. It wasn't seamless, it was severely disjointed. Trying to reconcile Rogue One with A New Hope is like watching the special edition Jabba scene from Episode IV and then skipping straight to RotJ. What we're left with is a movie that barely succeeds on its own, and only then by virtue of the last big fight scene, and certainly doesn't mesh with the rest of the trilogy.

This, this, a thousand times this.

I "liked" Rogue 1, but I liked it as a collection of action sequences. Movie-wise it hit a definite "meh".

Honestly it watched more like a collection of game cut scenes than a proper film. Which was fine, but it doesn't elevate it to OT standards to my eyes. Whoever said that all the stuff left off screen for us to imagine is what makes the OT good probably got it right.

Ep. 7 had a cut and pasted plot with inane details, but my emotional response to it was far better than R1. Not a "great movie" either, by any stretch, but a fun experience IRL. At the end of it I liked the characters more than I did the ones in Rogue 1.

For me, and this was probably the fault of my theater enthusiastically laying into the volume, but every locale change was accompanied by a harsh blast of the new score, to the point where a new planet was practically a jump scare.

At the end of the film the only characters we care about are Chirrut and K2, and that's because of funny one liners, not any particular development or arc or anything.

Tarkin and Leia are this year's Jar Jar. Tarkin would have been cool as a quick cameo, a reflection in a window would have been fine. Hell, having the actor just be himself as Tarkin would have been fine, he looked enough like him and played the part quite well. Hollywood has a long tradition of casting alternate actors to portray the same characters, I would not have had a problem with that. But the CGI puppet was distracting, disrespectful, and basically just godawful.

And frankly I prefer Daisy Ridley's acting to Felicity Jones any day. Regardless of how well the characters were written, Rey emotes far more convincingly and appealingly than Jan, and that's not some "this girl is prettier than that girl" bollocks. A thousand years from now when some Phrenologist unearths Daisy Ridley they'll be shocked by someone who is all forehead and teeth, but her ability to convey emotional context via facial expression is spot on.

I didn't hate it at all, I actually quite liked it, but I liked it because of space battles and splody stuff, the characters and plot were just so much noise. And if you notice, most of the folks who tout it as the missing link of Star Wars films are the same ones who rewound the fight scenes from the OT until their VHS copies wore out in those spots, (which was me too )

Well said.

The characters were really a big part of why I loved Episode 7. Especially the big 3. There were some weaker characters too, like Hux and Phasma - but there were really strong characters.

Adam Driver really sold the angsty rebellious young adult - and when he eventually redeems himself it's going to be amazing.

Daisy Ridley was spectacular. In every way. And I don't even think she's that attractive - it's really her performance that makes you fall in love with her.

John Boyega - My favorite. He's just the best.

Oscar Issacs - Dude started the whole thing off with a bang. He was funny and gung ho.

BB-8 - Everybody loves BB-8.

Harrison Ford - He single Handedly made the movie great. He is god.

In rogue 1 you had K2SO which was awesome, but after that it was just Chirrut Imwe with limited screen time, and to a lesser extent Cassian Andor, who was kinda cool.

Bill Weasley was probably the biggest offender of the lot. I get why they did what they did, but that isn't much in the way of justification. Phasma left a bad taste in my mouth too, but I recognized right away the potential she has to redeem herself in the next episode or two. I assume that when we look back on episodes 7-9 many years from now we'll be able to see her complete story arc with some modicum of vindication. For now, though, it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

I thought Rogue One was pretty bad actually. I earnestly wanted to like it, but there was just too much garbage. CGI Tarkin tops the list, ruining immersion completely. Near the top is the crashing star destroyers stunt, which was so stupid it was actually insulting.

And I thought we got over this with Ewoks, but once again Stormtroopers are killed by sticks. Tiny Erso with her metal stick, and Karate Kid with his wooden stick. It doesn't even break the armor (and nothing counts as armor if it's vulnerable to *sticks*)... no, not a cracked helmet here. They just flop over dead when you stick-tag them.

Overall a rather moronic offering.

You might want to have a good look at that Chittur scene again, because you can hear and see bits of armour flying off.

And just because they're lying still on the ground doesn't mean they're dead. You don't die every day you go to bed do you?

Oh, and nothing counts as armour if it's vulnerable to sticks?

The Quarterstaff was long considered to be the best of all hand weapons. I assume you're not saying knights did not wear armour? Nor did Samurai?

You can still be knocked out if you are wearing a helmet.

You might want to have a good look at that Chittur scene again, because you can hear and see bits of armour flying off.

And just because they're lying still on the ground doesn't mean they're dead. You don't die every day you go to bed do you?

I'm suddenly reminded of Badman.

You might want to have a good look at that Chittur scene again, because you can hear and see bits of armour flying off.

And just because they're lying still on the ground doesn't mean they're dead. You don't die every day you go to bed do you?

Yes that's why I don't sleep I constantly drip feed monster straight to my brain!!!!

And all of a sudden, things start to make sense. .

For me the acting in TFA had more impact than R1. But the BIG deficiency in R1 was lack of John Williams. Don't get me wrong, movie composers are geniuses. JW is next level. My favorite scene in all the movies is the final Luke VS Vader in ROTJ. Not because of the visuals but because of the soundtrack. When that plays, it makes me feel like tbe whole galaxy is holding its breath watching Luke turn to the dark side.

Even after seeing TFA for the second time, watching the trailer would choke me up due to the score. R1 did not have this layer of emotional amplification.

Won't stop me seeing it again though .

Oh, and nothing counts as armour if it's vulnerable to sticks?

The Quarterstaff was long considered to be the best of all hand weapons. I assume you're not saying knights did not wear armour? Nor did Samurai?

This did bug me when I watched it. But having just re-watched ROTJ, I can say that this is no less belivable than Ewoks crushing Stormtroopers with sticks and stones. That white armor is good for nothing.

It's Star Wars. Why do you assume Chirrut Imwe#s weapon is "just a stick"? Has no one here heard of vibroweapons? Corotosis weave?

Even a 500 year old quarterstaff, used correctly, could incapacitate a stormtrooper by hitting with the right amount of force at the right places.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyzs1MPMXB4

And yet more people gather to my way of thinking.

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red letter media too.

I feel like the RML guys are super hypocritical. They criticize Rogue One for fan pandering, but defend TFA which has way more "member Star Wars?" in it.

They also claim that the TFA characters are more fleshed out and deep, but in my opinion they really aren't (and don't make a lot of sense). Rey's background is basically a complete mystery. All we know is she was dropped off on Jakku and now just salvages parts and eats dehydrated food. However, she magically becomes a formidable Jedi without any training whatsoever. She's good at everything! Great character! She really has no arc. Her arc is touching a lightsaber and all of a sudden becoming a Jedi. However, before that she can out fly trained Imperial pilots in a ship she has never set foot in. Hopefully Episode VIII will give us some explanation, either she was formally trained and had a mind wipe... Or that Luke has become powerful enough he can manipulate people that are force sensitive and guide them. At least Luke had to go through some turmoil before he was able to face Vader and win.

Poe is a good pilot and a smartass... Cool. That's all we get. No background other than he's the best Resistance pilot and has the map that can find Luke. He is miraculously "thrown from the wreckage." and manages to find his way back in the desert. He does nothing else but shoot Tie Fighters the rest of the movie.

Now to Finn... My God I hate Finn. Not because Boyega gave a bad performance or anything, but that the character doesn't make any sense. He's in his 20 somethings, been indoctrinated since birth to become a Stormtrooper, but seems fairly incompetent at the task. He also has no military bearing whatsoever. Having gone to Basic Training myself, I saw first hand undisciplined goofballs become stoic and serious soldiers. That was in 8 weeks. You mean to tell me that someone trained/brainwashed since birth to be a soldier would have any sort of goofy personality or a sudden sense of morality. I'm fine with the morality bit, but the way he acts doesn't jive with his background. He would act more like the Unsullied from Game of Thrones. Otherwise he'd have been terminated by the First Order for being a **** solider long ago. I get they needed a comic relief character but it shouldn't have been him. I'm not even mentioning his silly sanitation background. You are a Stormtrooper or a sanitation worker. Not both. That's not how any military works.

Really I think they should have combined the Poe and Finn character into one. Have Poe figure a way to escape captivity and have him run into Rey. They did not need to be separate characters.

And yet more people gather to my way of thinking.

Yeah, and 17 million+ people voted in favour of Brexit, doesn't mean they're right though.

They also claim that the TFA characters are more fleshed out and deep, but in my opinion they really aren't (and don't make a lot of sense). Rey's background is basically a complete mystery. All we know is she was dropped off on Jakku and now just salvages parts and eats dehydrated food. However, she magically becomes a formidable Jedi without any training whatsoever. She's good at everything! Great character! She really has no arc. Her arc is touching a lightsaber and all of a sudden becoming a Jedi. However, before that she can out fly trained Imperial pilots in a ship she has never set foot in. Hopefully Episode VIII will give us some explanation, either she was formally trained and had a mind wipe... Or that Luke has become powerful enough he can manipulate people that are force sensitive and guide them. At least Luke had to go through some turmoil before he was able to face Vader and win.

Has she never set foot in the Falcon though? How would you know?

And she is far from a jedi. In desperation she can barely hold off a wounded and severely distraught Ren.

Now to Finn... My God I hate Finn. Not because Boyega gave a bad performance or anything, but that the character doesn't make any sense. He's in his 20 somethings, been indoctrinated since birth to become a Stormtrooper, but seems fairly incompetent at the task. He also has no military bearing whatsoever. Having gone to Basic Training myself, I saw first hand undisciplined goofballs become stoic and serious soldiers. That was in 8 weeks. You mean to tell me that someone trained/brainwashed since birth to be a soldier would have any sort of goofy personality or a sudden sense of morality. I'm fine with the morality bit, but the way he acts doesn't jive with his background. He would act more like the Unsullied from Game of Thrones. Otherwise he'd have been terminated by the First Order for being a **** solider long ago. I get they needed a comic relief character but it shouldn't have been him. I'm not even mentioning his silly sanitation background. You are a Stormtrooper or a sanitation worker. Not both. That's not how any military works.

Not much to argue here, Finn is far from being a professional soldier. Though soldiers doing other stuff than solduering isn't that farfetched of course. As Heinlein wrote, everybody fights.

And yet more people gather to my way of thinking.

Yeah, and 17 million+ people voted in favour of Brexit, doesn't mean they're right though.

That's not a right or wrong issue though a vote was taken more wanted to leave than stay, opinions are subjective you can't take a high ground on it.

Politics is about violence the strongest side imposing its will on the weaker side, crying over it for a week or two is fine but it's been months now accept it and move on.

Brexit is happening trump will be president and pc culture is dying.

Well I enjoyed R1 more the second time round. Cassian and Krennic seemed more relatable. Still rate TFA higher but it is a fun ride.