...no wonder the Empire/First Order is desperately building Death Star after Death Star. These must be the most poorly designed ships ever. (and no, I'm not impressed with the twice as big First Order version either, with 1 Tie-fighter managing to destroy its main guns)

So I just saw the movie, and while generally I thought it was okey but not great (a meagre 7, if I were to rate it) one thing specifically disappointed me: the space battle.

For those not seen the movie but not caring about spoilers, the final part of the movie is the space battle where the Rebel fleet attacks a planetary shield gate in orbit of a planet, guarded by 2 Imperial Star Destroyers.

Those two Star Destroyers seem to do very little, except for launching fighters. A small squad of about 3-4 (surviving) Y-wings then disables one Star Destroyer entirely with a handful of ion bombs. It remains disabled for the rest of the battle.

In one rare starwars moment where Tie-fighters actually seem to do well, right after the orbital gate facility finally decides to launch its fighters (like halfway into the battle, did the station officers forget they had fighters in their hangar?) we see X-wings getting destroyed left and right, and the Tie-Fighters apparently do heavy damage to the Rebel fleet as it is announced shields are at half strength. The still functional Star Destroyer still doesn't do much on screen, but we can assume or at least hope it is firing on the rebel ships without destroying anything so far but some X-wings.

Then the Rebel admiral, a military mastermind of unequal magnitude, performs a masterstroke. He orders a tiny hammerhead corvette (which apparently is constructed as a battering ram) to ram the side of the disabled ISD. In a moment that defies non-starwars logic, the tiny corvette burrows itself into the side of the disabled 1.000 times heavier Star Destroyer taking pretty much no visible damage but ripping a sizeable chasm in the Star Destroyer's flank. (Hey its just like in Armada where a tiny corvette trades 1-1 damage to a rammed/ramming ISD!)

Then, in a moment that defies even starwars logic, the lodged hammerhead corvette activates its thrusters to push the disabled Star Destroyer against the still functional Star Destroyer hoovering next to it, causing the still functional Star Destroyer to be literally sliced in half....Yes this actually happens. Somehow.

Naturally the Imperial officers, engaged in a sampling of exotic teas, showed no iniatitive or even reaction until the collision was like 2 seconds away from happening.

Only when Vader hyperspace jumps his personal Star Destroyer in the middle of the Rebel fleet, at point plank range, and at the exact same time where they attempt to hyperspace out and thus don't fire back, we finally see a Star Destroyer that manages to destroy one or two small ships and by some miracle disables the already battered rebel capital ship, while allowing the other 20 or so ships to escape unharmed. In fact, with the Rebel fleet already having destroyed 2 Star Destroyers without loosing a single ship, judging by their track record if they hadn't hyperspaced out they would have been more than able to destroy Vader and his Star Destroyer.

We can draw several conclusion from this scene. Firstly, the Empire has not only skimped on expensive paint, which is why we are stuck with Imperial White for all our ships, apparently they also skimped on hull armour. Wat looks like hull plating is apparently only a mere centimeter thick unhardened iron purchased from Alihutta-express on last year's black friday. Yes it was listed as Durasteel, but at 1% of the price of real durasteel, did you really think it was legit?

Secondly, besides inheriting the british accent, imperial officers apparently have also inherited the British need for regular tea-time regardless of the circumstances. 15:00 is tea-time, mid-battle or not! Rebel scum.

Well, real-life Durasteel is mostly insulating board packed between very thin metal plates

In a low gravity environment, you can move objects even of large mass with the application of force. Those small ships look fast, and we can assume that a disabled Star Destroyer will have lost it's ability to hold its position.

Now, an object with a large mass, even though it needs relatively little force to get going will still have a heck of a lot of momentum.. again due to mass.

When I watched the film a second time I saw a lot of turbolaser fire that I had somehow missed the first time (I blame it on my angle and the 3D effects.)

Edit: And let's also never forget the beautiful Executor and its ignominious end at the hands of those rebel scum.

I saw several corvettes blown to bits, and I think to Nebs get split in half as well.

Yeah I too was telling my friends after the movie on the ride home about my disgust for that scene.. I mean.. TWO IMPERIAL CLASS Star destroyers.. what do they face off against.. a handful of Cr-90's A neb-B and some large Reb cap ship and maybe two of three dozen fighters. My first complaint is that 3 Y-wings and six Ion torpedoes are enough to knock am Imperial class out? Then I noticed the shield dome on the soon to be disabled SD was destroyed at some point in the battle. Ok, alright I was still skeptical of only six torpedoes knocking a Star Destroyer out, but I could on theory believe it. So, my second thought was.. Why is that second Star Destroyer still sitting there next to that other one.. CLOSE THE **** DISTANCE and end these insurgent Rebels. But no, it sat there. My third thought was ok, ok.. these are obviously Imperial-I Star Destroyers because their hull is weaker, and their shield domes apparently have zero armor... The only saving grace for this battle is when the Devastator shows up and completely wreaks face.. one GR-75 exploding as it crashed into the hull, the Neb-B getting lit up like the 4th of July, and then disables the big bad ship in like ten seconds.. compared to what? Minutes of those other two SD's fighting it. but as was explained in the OP Those two ships didn't fire a single Turbolaser battery. And if they did, I must have missed it completely. So, I'm left with this thought. Perhaps it was just the captain's and crews of those two ships that were terrible, and useless. Because again the Devastator showed us what Imperial-I's do, and that in simple terms is to punish ships at Medium range, and absolutely decimate them at close range.

Good, good let the hate flow through you. It'll mean one less person in front of me when im trying to buy popcorn for the next time I go to see it.

First of all both Star Destroyers were firing quite a bit.

It could also be that the reason Devastator was able to, well, devastate, is because the Rebel ships had been locked in a protracted battle with two ISD-1s for quite a long while.

Remember that the rebel fleet being there caught even the rebels on the ground by surprise.

Considering this was the rebel's first real "victory" (as per a new hope opening crawl), it is unlikely that any of the crew on those ships had even seen or experienced real fleet combat before, further reducing their effectiveness.

Finally, the two ISDs were clearly there to defend the installation. Especially with one of them disabled, the other ISD wouldn't have gone charging into the massed fleet to be overwhelmed if it knew reinforcements were on the way. To me it even looked like it was trying to use it's wounded comrade as cover from the massed rebel fleet.

This brings up the one thing that I think that Armada lacks- negative modifications. All we have to work with are positive upgrades (better crews, officers, tech, etc...). What is needed are "negative upgrades"- things like poor crews or poor officers where the designing player gets points back for using them.

Did I mention I hate space ramming....

Maybe its a background in astrophysics and rocket design, but the hammerhead corvette was actually not the part that bothered me about the battle.

1)once the two ISDs collided, they would just come apart. They are outside of atmosphere (assuming that shield can't be penetrated by anything) so they would just keep orbiting. Them dropping is a painfully stupid gimmick in space movies.

2)if atmosphere does escape that shield, then they would de-orbit... Over a few months or years depending on altitude.

I had a similar reaction at first, BUT it has been pointed out the Rebels had surprise on their side and it would take a lot of time to get to battle stations...this was in effect a Pearl Harbor type attack.

Maybe its a background in astrophysics and rocket design, but the hammerhead corvette was actually not the part that bothered me about the battle.

1)once the two ISDs collided, they would just come apart. They are outside of atmosphere (assuming that shield can't be penetrated by anything) so they would just keep orbiting. Them dropping is a painfully stupid gimmick in space movies.

2)if atmosphere does escape that shield, then they would de-orbit... Over a few months or years depending on altitude.

I assumed that the transferred force from the collision was what brought them into a downward trajectory.

More viewings, erm I mean, research is required.

This was the first battle of the war, a suprise attack. They were not anywhere need a heightened readiness (deploy the garrison! call the admiral!)You can see the ISD turn in you can see laser fire from all capital ships in the middle and end. It looks small because it's to scale. Did you see the twig ISDS in the death star shots?

Love how fans try to correct a movie's inaccuracies by comparing it to a game. Also the most knowledgeable Star Wars fans were advising the writers of the film. Also I thought it was the best Star Wars film since the Empire Strikes Back and I saw every single film in theaters on opening weekend. So I've been a huge Star Wars nerd since 77.

I'd elaborate more later but I want to see where this goes first.

The movie was great and well made. As has been pointed out it is actually possible to do the hammerhead maneuver to a dead floating object in space.

You Imperial Donald Duck fans should be happy everyone dies. But at least its for a good cause just like real life will be.

I would rate this as right up there with original trilogy. Different though in its dark but realistic plot line so a bit of apples and oranges in comparison.

Ya'll need to chill. A tiny asteroid took out an ISD-II's bridge in Empire Strikes Back.

Fine, it was a surprise attack, except that it was not really for the Imperial Ships, as the ground team engaged before the Rebel fleet arrives. Which I assume would put the orbitting ships on high alert no?

Then I noticed the shield dome on the soon to be disabled SD was destroyed at some point in the battle.

It has been long since established that those domes are sensor domes, not shield generators.

As for the hammerhead corvette ramming and destroying the 2 ISD's, which some people defend. How would you think of the following scene in a pacific theatre WW-II movie:

A small US fleet engages the Yamato & Musashi guarding a port. After a lucky torpedo disables the Yamato's engines, a small US Destroyer rams the Yamato, then pushes the Yamato against the Musashi, causing the Musashi to be cut in two halves bow to stern after which both super heavy battleships sink. Would that make for a believable naval scene?

Ok as mentioned above, yes, the ISD's were firing. The late response to the Rebel attack can be easily explained by looking at how the attack was handled on the surface, poorly. The Empire was caught off guard completely and the ISD's were probably not only down crew members, being off ship on shore leave, but they were probably not in their readied positions.

An attack of this size and scale was not done before at a remote supposed "secret" station. No one expected it. And yes, according to Star Wars lore if Bombers get past a Capital's defenses a hand full of bombers can wreck a large ship. Then it would have no way of stabilizing itself without power. So a small vessel can push it (and it was a slow push) into a ship stationary next to it were neither were in attack formation.

When an ISD that was battle ready showed up it was all over for the Rebels. All they could do was try to run, which most failed to do.

The Rebel fleet was demolished and only a hand full of squadrons and a few smaller ships escaped even after the Surprise attack. Samething happened in WWII in this little harbor in the middle of the pacific at one of our territories. You might have heard of it.

Didn't said ISD get smacked and lose a shield generator...the fleet focused and opened a hole...then the Y-wings hit it with a coordinated assault of ion bombs at the same spot? I mean an ISD 1 is a tough cookie, but she aint immune to sustained assault like that...

That's pretty much how Armada plays out - focus - pen shields - hit hull - crit baby crit - dead

The Hammerhead was cool, you all need to just stop...enjoy it...don't pick it apart...because it detracts from the level of cool.

Fine, it was a surprise attack, except that it was not really for the Imperial Ships, as the ground team engaged before the Rebel fleet arrives. Which I assume would put the orbitting ships on high alert no?

Then I noticed the shield dome on the soon to be disabled SD was destroyed at some point in the battle.

It has been long since established that those domes are sensor domes, not shield generators.

As for the hammerhead corvette ramming and destroying the 2 ISD's, which some people defend. How would you think of the following scene in a pacific theatre WW-II movie:

A small US fleet engages the Yamato & Musashi guarding a port. After a lucky torpedo disables the Yamato's engines, a small US Destroyer rams the Yamato, then pushes the Yamato against the Musashi, causing the Musashi to be cut in two halves bow to stern after which both super heavy battleships sink. Would that make for a believable naval scene?

Precisely. A shield generator was popped leaving the Destroyer vunerable to a full ion barrage.

The fact the rebels needed to ram one Deatroyer into the other is proof even that entire rebel fleet was no match to both Destroyers.

Fine, it was a surprise attack, except that it was not really for the Imperial Ships, as the ground team engaged before the Rebel fleet arrives. Which I assume would put the orbitting ships on high alert no?

Then I noticed the shield dome on the soon to be disabled SD was destroyed at some point in the battle.

It has been long since established that those domes are sensor domes, not shield generators.

As for the hammerhead corvette ramming and destroying the 2 ISD's, which some people defend. How would you think of the following scene in a pacific theatre WW-II movie:

A small US fleet engages the Yamato & Musashi guarding a port. After a lucky torpedo disables the Yamato's engines, a small US Destroyer rams the Yamato, then pushes the Yamato against the Musashi, causing the Musashi to be cut in two halves bow to stern after which both super heavy battleships sink. Would that make for a believable naval scene?

There's a huge difference between water which has a high resistance and space which has None! And the Hammerhead didn't just push it like a toy, it took time and with all its thrusters on full.

You still need to overcome mass and original speed of the ISD, which is unlikely for such a small vessel. The ISD has engines the size of said corvette for a reason. Or do you think you can push a large asteroid in space just because there is no gravity?

Precisely. A shield generator was popped leaving the Destroyer vunerable to a full ion barrage.

The fact the rebels needed to ram one Deatroyer into the other is proof even that entire rebel fleet was no match to both Destroyers.

Fine, it was a surprise attack, except that it was not really for the Imperial Ships, as the ground team engaged before the Rebel fleet arrives. Which I assume would put the orbitting ships on high alert no?

Then I noticed the shield dome on the soon to be disabled SD was destroyed at some point in the battle.

It has been long since established that those domes are sensor domes, not shield generators.

As for the hammerhead corvette ramming and destroying the 2 ISD's, which some people defend. How would you think of the following scene in a pacific theatre WW-II movie:

A small US fleet engages the Yamato & Musashi guarding a port. After a lucky torpedo disables the Yamato's engines, a small US Destroyer rams the Yamato, then pushes the Yamato against the Musashi, causing the Musashi to be cut in two halves bow to stern after which both super heavy battleships sink. Would that make for a believable naval scene?

There's a huge difference between water which has a high resistance and space which has None! And the Hammerhead didn't just push it like a toy, it took time and with all its thrusters on full.

You still need to overcome mass and original speed of the ISD, which is unlikely for such a small vessel. The ISD has engines the size of said corvette for a reason. Or do you think you can push a large asteroid in space just because there is no gravity?

Have to mention that those engines are used to not only bring ships to light speed but also into hyperspace so to move at less than 50 MPH is not a feat to brag about because that's about the speed the ISD was going when it crashed into the other ship.

Plus the Destroyers at that point were static, holding position over the shield gate.

Dont forget they were in low orbit over Scarif and the Hammerhead was thrusting the ISD downwards.

The Hammerhead was working its tail off but gravity was pulling down as well.

I think if anything this points to the weakness of the inter-armor between the terrace plates on the ISD's citadel. It's probably enough to ablate against Turbolaser blasts and crumple against Torpedoes, but not stop the constant velocity mass of a large projectile like the side of another Star Destroyer. The shaped end going into the hull plates probably tore through the support beams and blew through the crew decks...

basically, the designers did not intend for an ISD's armor to stop a projectile with the mass and shape of another ISD. And really, why would they?