I think it's because the gunboats aren't TIEs, and the Avenger is basically the X1.

It is because the Avenger and the Gunboat are only seen in the tie fighter and x wing video games and in no other legends media

That's part of what I mean... Why didn't anything else from that game hit the mainstream? Only the TIE Defender did, and it isn't even the Real TIE Defender (With a longer, narrower side/top down profile and bigger wings). Instead, it's the depiction from the Decipher Card Game, which really IS a TIE Interceptor on steroids. At least the TIE Avenger made it to Decipher but not anywhere else...

Sorry, I'm derailing. I can't help it- TIE Fighter brought a lot of interesting craft and it's part of my background of getting into Star Wars gameplaying. I want those entities represented in the FFG minis games, but they are becoming conspicuously absent. There are other fans of these things so I know I'm not alone.

Until then I guess I'll be buying some Mel Miniatures in the future to make up for it :s

Well the Defender was also in the Rebellion PC game which was before the decipher card game. Honestly the defender was just more popular among fans at the time.

To add 2 imperial credits to the conversation: one of the interesting advantages of rolling 3 antiship dice is that they still present a significant threat even when hiding within an obstacle, where they cannot be pinned down and are a b**** to kill. Asteroid-hopping works particularly well with Rogue, since correctly timing Squadron commands to avoid enemy screens is no longer an issue.

In combination with well-chosen objective cards, this can make Dengar a lot less critical to a Rhymerball (though the +1 counter may still make him worthwhile).

I don't know. When looking at squadrons I try to place them in one of three categories. Bombers, Interceptors and Escorts. With the obvious PRS setting Good Interceptors take down Bombers and Good Escorts keep that from happening and Bombers go kill ships to win the game. With the Decimator it is hard to place it. The counter is good for escorts but it doesn't have the escort + counter combo that YT-1300 which make them the best escorts in game. Speed 3 and heavy doesn't make them good as interceptors. The best I could come up with is well bombers. But it is hard to call a squadron a bomber when it doesn't have the bomber trait. However 3 blues does mean it is harder for ships to spend defense tokens against them and 8 hull means they won't go down to AS fire.

So Decimator is more of a anti-token bomber. However without the Bomber trait it doesn't fit in the Rhymer Ball. SO I don't think they will be replacing Firesprays.

edited so I didn't have to double post.

So giving more thought on it. I figured the Decimator is best as a Bomber for lists that don't want a lot of points into squadrons. It has rouge so you don't need a squadron command or even a token. Also they have counter-1 along with 3 black antisquadron dice so you don't have to spend many points on escorts for them. For 66 points (less than half of the maximum allocation for squadrons) you can get 3 of them and they will do an okay job getting to ships leaving the rest of the 320 or so points of ships to do the heavy hitting (Although you may want a raider or two for anti-squadron support).

Avengers and Gunboats are still mysteriously absent from the miniatures games. I don't get it. Gunboats have a cult following on the X-Wing forums for this reason (though it helps it's a beautiful fighter).

If there is a reason LFL/FFG has, I'd be interested to hear it. At least it would quash all the hypothesizing from us.

On the matter of VTs though, Mel has ATR-6s you could probably use as stand-ins. I still need to pick up a few proxies to replace the Scum (that I don't need). For instance, Escort shuttles in place of Firesprays, at least until (hopefully?) FFG gives us some real ones. At least I don't have to replace Jumpmasters with Lambdas now.

So how would both of these fit in with the new squads that doesn't make something obsolete? That's a big problem when we keep getting new content.

Also, we are only on wave 2 of imp/rebel squadrons. Not counting R&V because those are stand alone characters that also brought generics into the game, where as the squads you are asking would bring generics with a notable character who flew them.

Decimators seem nice, and taking 4 of them with Rhymer would be amazing if you are fighting an opponent who regularly goes without squadrons and argues that squadrons are a waste of points.

I don't think decimators are going to fundamentally change what we see on the table on a regular basis. 4x Z-95s plus their ace, however, will be present in almost every rebel list I can currently think of.

The ships that I think will really change the game are the shuttles and the VCX-100. Lets say you are playing intel sweep with the following:

CR90A, Raymus Antilles, Nav team, TRC

2x VCX100 in support

You can now either issue navigate tokens to make your ship ultra-manoeverable, or squadron commands to have the 2 freighters bring in tokens towards your ship. It's not a slouch in a fight either, and its very possible to choose missions which suit having the freighters around, especially if you have a horror like Mon Karren in your fleet to scare people away from advanced gunnery.

I ran my first wave 5 game with the following list and it went extremely well against a rebel opponent. My Ties were able to tie up his fighters long enough for the Decimators to land some solid hits on his Assault Frigate flagship while the ALC's were boss long range artillery. It was almost sad when my ISD closed off his only escape path. One of the big problems for him was that he chose Planetary Ion Cannon as the objective and four blue are deceptively tough. Especially when it starts exhausting defense tokens.

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
= 27 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 166 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 61 total ship cost

1 VT-49 Decimator ( 22 points)
2 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 16 points)
1 Black Squadron ( 9 points)
1 Morna Kee ( 27 points)
1 TIE Interceptor Squadron ( 11 points)

Avengers and Gunboats are still mysteriously absent from the miniatures games. I don't get it. Gunboats have a cult following on the X-Wing forums for this reason (though it helps it's a beautiful fighter).

If there is a reason LFL/FFG has, I'd be interested to hear it. At least it would quash all the hypothesizing from us.

On the matter of VTs though, Mel has ATR-6s you could probably use as stand-ins. I still need to pick up a few proxies to replace the Scum (that I don't need). For instance, Escort shuttles in place of Firesprays, at least until (hopefully?) FFG gives us some real ones. At least I don't have to replace Jumpmasters with Lambdas now.

So how would both of these fit in with the new squads that doesn't make something obsolete? That's a big problem when we keep getting new content.

Also, we are only on wave 2 of imp/rebel squadrons. Not counting R&V because those are stand alone characters that also brought generics into the game, where as the squads you are asking would bring generics with a notable character who flew them.

I know, I was speaking in general. Both fighters could make a bigger splash in X-Wing where more detail can make them distinct from other fighters. Already the XG-1 could be a small based cannon-upgrade carrier for the Empire cheaper than the TIE Defender.

In Armada the Empire could use another escort keyword fighter. Either could fit- the TIE Avenger because it's an extension of the TIE Advanced and the XG because it has been on Escort missions before. The Avenger is a little harder to imagine since I picture it as a hull-4 cross between a TIE Avdnaced and TIE Interceptor. It's a bit niche I admit, though the Gunboat could do and be more.

I'd probably stat it out as an Escort with Grit-1, three blue AA and one black battery. ~14 points? It not grit then Bomber, since it was used on attack missions as a multi-role craft. Only TIE/sa and Firespray have bomber, compared to the multitude of Bombers in the Rebellion. XG-1 was more of a Rebel-lite starfighter anyway.

Ran 2 Decimators, Morna Kee (Decimator), Bossk and 4 Interceptor flights in my game today. Decimators managed to land the killing blow on both my opponents Assault Frigate MkII A's. Rogue made sure even after he slipped past my fleet I was able to keep harrassing him and eventually hunted the Rebel scum down. The 3 blue dice, although unable to land a critical generally dealt at least 1-2 damage each time a Decimator fired against a ship. I made sure to keep in his broadsides forcing him to choose between shooting my ships or my fighters. It was a losing decision to have to make. The durability provided by 8 hit points also made sure that if his fighters did land a heavy blow I lived to tell about it. By games end all 3 Decimators and Bossk were still in play. My opponent was down 4 X-wing Flights, 2 B-wing Flights and Ten Numb with a single hit point remaining.

Anyway, long story short, the Decimator can do a little of everything. But excels at nothing. It did however force my opponent to actually consider the Decimators positions far more then he would have liked. That potential to drop 9 blue dice on a ship is a very scary threat. It is worth noting however that without my interceptors to engage my opponent early and give me room to move, they would have spent the game dogfighting.

Sheer fact that Decimators may not be able to 1shot most squads but do a reliable 2-3 damage to them AND have counter1 kinda scares me.

Kinda the opposite fear of Z's. Z's can do a whopping 6 damage w/o any outside shenanigans but its more likely they do less damage than other squads. Decimators whiffing an attack is kinda unheard of.

My friend bought a 2nd imperial squad pack and im kinda afraid hes gonna start fielding 4 decis lol

Decimators are so close I can taste it. Sometimes I get underwhelmed by their lack of bomber and zero accuracies against aces, then other times I see a CR90 has about 8 Health and 1 expected damage from two hull zones and a Decimator has 8 at 1.5 expected damage from one shot. I like Defenders but I think I owe it to myself to at least TRY Bossk+5 Decimators. It'd be just six Decimators, but Bossk is a bargain at just one point more.

I have been using Bossk with my Decimators, seemed like a logical combo. I think I am about to swap to Boba-Fett instead though.

Firesprays and decimators seem to have a good synergy

Firesprays and decimators seem to have a good synergy

I agree, the combo did hit me. In an effort to field some new items I did decide to try 4 Flights of Phantoms with 3 Decimators next game.

I have been using Bossk with my Decimators, seemed like a logical combo. I think I am about to swap to Boba-Fett instead though.

Bossk basically is a decimator,

I think it's because the gunboats aren't TIEs, and the Avenger is basically the X1.

Only if you forget it has twice the blaster load-out than the X1 (and a tractor beam if I remember right).

Had three dec face off against for x wings. Lost three xwings to the lost of three dec.

I think it's because the gunboats aren't TIEs, and the Avenger is basically the X1.

Only if you forget it has twice the blaster load-out than the X1 (and a tractor beam if I remember right).

hard for them to chase Fighters at speed 3 and heavy. I think the will need at least a tie back up to pin targets and let them attack.

hard for them to chase Fighters at speed 3 and heavy. I think the will need at least a tie back up to pin targets and let them attack.

Someone like Valen Rudor and his big "you can't attack me" sh!t eating grin?