Sorry you had a lousy time. This happens sometimes in competitive tournaments. Stinks that people were being verbally abusive like you said though. I'm actually very surprised by that, as X-Wing players have ALWAYS been incredibly supportive and nice from my experience.

I will echo the surprise as well. I got stomped at my first tournament too, but people was nice, and I kept playing.

I have never tried heard about verbal abuse in a tournament before.

But as the rest of the people say. Learn from the plays in the tournament, not the socially handicapped skills your opponents displayed.

.. And btw. Who drinks alcohol at a tournament?

Sadly X-wing has attracted some annoyingly hardcore gamers. I also think it's gone down the path of power creep further diluting the beauty of this once great game.

That sucks dude. And my post is going to reiterate what a lot of folks have already said, but I feel like it's important enough to say again. So, first off, good for you in having pride and confidence in an original list that you put together. I know I highly prefer playing against those type of lists, and always try to bring one myself, or at least a non-mainstream "meta" list (aka, Kanan/Biggs, Kanan/Miranda, Poe/Corran, etc, which are archetypes but under-represented ones).

That said, you have to expect to go up against meta lists. At least the meta has widened - it was obnoxious back in the day when you'd play against literally the same. exact. list. three or four times in a row. And you have to realize they are meta lists for several reasons, including they have a low entry barrier (both cost and skill), they have a high skill cap, and they are consistent. That has been the #1 theme in meta lists since the start of the game... TIE swarms dominated from W1 to W3 due to their consistency (established from the sheer volume of shots), Fat Han dominated W4-5 due to C3PO, Gunner, and PWT, W6-8 was dominated by AT token stacking aces, W8+ has been dominated from Palp and x7 due to guaranteed evades. Your list has a high variance, which does not mean that it's a bad list, it just means that you will lose at least one game due to dice, so there's little room for error on your behalf. Challenge Accepted! It does sound like you self admit to making mistakes with your piloting, forcing yourself to BR away from a rock, and barely clipping an edge of a rock. This is a loss that you will be able to turn into a win with practice, and it sounds like you recognize that.

Onto the next bit, it's always good to circle back to your friends in between rounds, check in on them and see how they're doing, retell your tale of your match, regardless of how the match went, humans are a social species and as such it's a pick-me-up to socialize with the preselected people that you enjoy. Now, without knowing what all was actually said regarding "poking fun at my bad game," there may or may not be anything wrong going on here. Statements like "what the heck were you thinking bringing that POS list to a tourney" are not acceptable, but things like "Man, clipping that rock really screwed you" are acceptable comments. Either way, if you don't like what all they're saying, nothing you can do be walk away, as it sounded like you did. If they were the non-acceptable variety of comments, then shame of them for being Aholes, and good for you on being the bigger man.

I know exactly the type of person you're referring to when you talk about an opponent who consistently nudges ships to his advantage. I've found the best way to counter that is to "help" them be more precise. It's difficult for them to argue with you holding templates, ships, or asteroids while they complete their maneuver with their ship. And now that FFG has officially adopted the rules from vassal about how to align ships that bump (center the numbs on the template), there is no more arbitration necessary.

Fortressing sucks, it's a cheap "tactic" that goes against the purpose of the game... TO PLAY. But it does allow you to take the advantage - you can approach him however you want to, presumably without the shuttle having arc. Furthermore, with the higher PS from Jax, coupled with PTL, you should have been able to shut down one of the Defenders for everyone else to pewpew - I'm not sure going for the shuttle was the right move in this game (well, at least in the way I'm envisioning the board being setup, but I could be absolutely wrong about the setup). But regardless, your opponent was clearly correct, "Don't start celebrating yet." Regardless of whether he was correct or not, if you're letting your opponent affect your mental psyche, then you're allowing yourself to be manipulated, which only favors your opponent. And to the free evade from the x7, that is not the place to complain about it. There are plenty of people that agree with you that the x7 title is too good, but at the end of the day, complaining about it when you're losing to it just sounds like you're being a sore loser. If your statement that he never performed moves that didn't grant him the free evade is accurate, it sounds like you allowed him to take a fast move every turn.

As for the cafe handing out free "Red Lightsaber shots," I don't see the problem. It's not like part of your $10 entry fee went towards getting a drink, and they refused to give you a non-alcoholic one. They decided to do something fun for their guests, and it just so happened that you weren't included in that. It's really no different than handing out random door prizes and complaining that you didn't get one. It also sounds like you didn't actually expect to get a free drink since you "jokingly asked."

Byes suck, they always do. Everyone comes and pays money to play X wing. Sadly, there's no better way to handle byes if there's an odd number of people. I would say in the future to stay at least until the end of the 2nd round, it's not uncommon for someone to drop for one reason or another, in which case there would no longer be a bye.

While it's always demoralizing to get curb stomped, I'm sad to hear you think it was a waste of a Sunday. You still got to play 2 games of X wing, and any day I get to play X wing I consider a win. It sounds like in the 2hrs you were there, you got to play 80 minutes of X wing, which really isn't a bad ratio for a tourney (there's typically at least 15min between rounds, and then most people finish by 60min and have at least 15min of waiting for the round to be over, so 2/3 is probably about average). And it sounds like the only "berating" happened after the first round as you were getting food.

It seems like you started the day with a bad attitude (being disappointed in Rogue One, breaking an Interceptor... it's understandable), and were overly sensitive when things didn't go your way. At the risk of sounding like a bully and perhaps mis-interpreting what all happened, I'd say buck up! If you don't like playing against competition that doesn't give you easy wins, perhaps the tourney scene isn't for you. And if can't handle smack talk, either at the table or away from it, then I got news for you - your problem isn't with X Wing, it's with the world.

It sounds like you have a good subset of friends there, and a brother who genuinely cares for you. I question why you left early even if you were given the bye - your friends were on the top tables, why not stay and cheer them on, and observe how they play and perhaps next time you too can be on the top tables? I get that you were in a bad mood, and sometimes when people get like that, you just want to be alone, and that's fine too, but it comes across as childish when you come onto the forums to rant about how sucky the world is. But what do I know - I'm probably just another interwebz troll out to bully you as well.

1. Usually people playing "meta" lists at the store tourney level aren't particularly talented. If you have a list that you like and have practiced you can beat them. If you get trashed then maybe you need to reexamine your list or your practice methodology

2. I've found 1/3 of my opponents at store tournies to be kind of jerky. I like to shake hands and say good luck to my opponent at the start of every game. Most of them are so surprised; it doesn't even compute for them. It's like they didn't play enough real sports growing up or something where they were forced to walk in a line, show some real sportsmanship, and say good game/ high five to every player on the field. Where I'm going with this is that I think you should probably play in a more casual environment; and if you go to these types of events to expect these types of players.

3. Also, don't let them change you. I still shake hands and try to say good game even if I get tabled by that jerk I described above. If you let that get to you that's on you, not them.

I fully support the mixture of X-Wing with beer. The things with which alcohol does not mix well are a-holes and/or the operation of dangerous machinery.

The most fun tournament that I ever attended was held at a brewpub (/used bookstore!). The attitude was very casual. There were scenarios for each round (each round of X-Wing, that is - not each round of drinks). There was even a vote at the end and a prize awarded for best sportsmanship. I had a couple of really good brews and the best darned grilled cheese sandwich ever.

I mostly play casual at home with friends, it is just more fun. Or promotional tournaments like Campaign against Cancer. Tournaments I always get destroyed in, I just don't play enough to be competitive with the people playing every day.

1. Usually people playing "meta" lists at the store tourney level aren't particularly talented. If you have a list that you like and have practiced you can beat them. If you get trashed then maybe you need to reexamine your list or your practice methodology

...

This.

I intentionally DONT play meta lists unless im pissed at something and i need to wreck something to blow off some steam. I face meta lists all the time though, and my winrate is pretty high.

People who only play meta lists are usually narrowminded and bad at adapting, which i prey upon. They rely on a gimick to keep them alive or kill things, not proper flying.

Sadly X-wing has attracted some annoyingly hardcore gamers. I also think it's gone down the path of power creep further diluting the beauty of this once great game.

i cant speak to annoying gamers as that is the inveitable fate of all games that are even the least bit competitive

But power creep? We're seeing some incredible variety atm

The only trick you need to have a nonmeta list do well is this: **** dice

Uofrade to modify them/ignore them/overcome guaranteed defenses

Ideally all of the above

You dont need to be an x7 defender to avoid variance.

Hell, seems just about anything with mindlink can suffice. Even g-1as (and a leechos) took a freaking regionals

Just have to think a little bit to get dice mods in your lists

In the case of strokers, for example, look to hux when he comes out

Major striden with hux and a systems officer will feed them all they need while being a scary bugger to boot (just add fcs)

1. Usually people playing "meta" lists at the store tourney level aren't particularly talented. If you have a list that you like and have practiced you can beat them. If you get trashed then maybe you need to reexamine your list or your practice methodology

...

People who only play meta lists are usually narrowminded and bad at adapting, which i prey upon. They rely on a gimick to keep them alive or kill things, not proper flying.

Completely baseless generalization.

Meta lists are popular not without reason: they are reliable and gives highest chance of success, thus competitive players use them.

If you think that using Imperial Aces during 8th wave didn't require proper flying and good strategy then I can only conclude that you don't know anything about this game.

Because when two competitive players with meta lists met at the table all that matters are flying skills.

Also try to fly Corran + Miranda list - it is one of those meta standards, or double bomber K-Wings for that matter. The last thing you can say is that those lists are easy to fly.

At the moment truly easy meta lists to fly are Dengaroo and quad TLT's - with those I agree with you, they are disgustingly easy to fly and minimal skill is involved when using them.

...

It was a waste of a Sunday night, to sit there and not even really get to play, to get berated by the drunken older guys for losing my matches or playing a list they thought was bad. I had high hopes for an, at least, decent night, win or lose. Instead I lost so quickly that I spent more time waiting for a game than playing, and basically spent $10 for an alt art Predator card.

It was a disappointing day.

That does sound like an all-together bad time. I'm sorry it was such a let-down. You know, a lot of people here, want to try and solve your problem, but sometimes, you just want to vent and have a sympathetic listener commiserate with you.

I am curious though ... after hearing one of your worst X-Wing experiences, what is your favorite X-Wing memory?

I don't really have a choice but play at least semi-competitively; the other players at my club use casual games to practice for tournaments or experiment with new lists and not much else. It's been a while since I played Epic or Cinematic.

So I might as well play the occasional tournament, and have done sporadically well. Some of the players from the 'local meta' (western Netherlands) did well at worlds so I guess we have a broad level of competition. And that's nice; you can be challenged in many ways at the tournaments here. The biggest disadvantage of tournaments is that every now and then, you meet a player who is not very gracious in defeat. Blaming the dice for the opponent's success, throwing rulers on the table, constant shouts of disbelief at bad results, impatient behaviour, etc. Generally, any game against a friendly opponent is a good game as far as I'm concerned.

I think it's a good habit to think about what you want to get out of a game and a tournament. If you only want to win, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

The take away I feel is:

1) You are not alone. We've all had a bad run every now and again. I'm sorry people weren't as kind as they could have been.

2.) Your list had plenty of merit. Given a different match-up you may have had a better time whether or not you won. Playing against "That Guy" can really sour the game and can be tough to get past.

3.) Overall, your self awareness shows a maturity and intelligence that we need more of in this game. I hope you stick around for a long time.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Talking about it (if this can count as talking) is really helpful, for you, for me, and anyone reading or replying whether you know it or not.

Time will go on and you'll eventually get better at everything you set your mind to. Just try to keep moving forward.

Best of luck in the future.

Yikes, sounds like you had a rough time of it. My first tournament featured me running 89 points of Tie Fighters and Interceptors, since I didn't have enough to meet the full hundred and I got smoked pretty hard core. I would definitely recommend playing some casual games that don't require a buy-in, over a tournament, if you're not feeling like you're enjoying the competitive scene. If nothing else, it's a great way to get practice in and make some friends over a no-stakes, fun game.

Yeah and I play casual all the time, so i though that would be a nice change in pace. I kind of hoped I could win some store credit for a U-Wing.

While your experience sounded sh*tty... I Guaranty anyone going into a tournament with the attitude that "I kind of hoped I could win some store credit for a U-wing" is going to have a bad time.

1. Usually people playing "meta" lists at the store tourney level aren't particularly talented. If you have a list that you like and have practiced you can beat them. If you get trashed then maybe you need to reexamine your list or your practice methodology

...

People who only play meta lists are usually narrowminded and bad at adapting, which i prey upon. They rely on a gimick to keep them alive or kill things, not proper flying.

Completely baseless generalization.

Meta lists are popular not without reason: they are reliable and gives highest chance of success, thus competitive players use them.

If you think that using Imperial Aces during 8th wave didn't require proper flying and good strategy then I can only conclude that you don't know anything about this game.

Because when two competitive players with meta lists met at the table all that matters are flying skills.

Also try to fly Corran + Miranda list - it is one of those meta standards, or double bomber K-Wings for that matter. The last thing you can say is that those lists are easy to fly.

At the moment truly easy meta lists to fly are Dengaroo and quad TLT's - with those I agree with you, they are disgustingly easy to fly and minimal skill is involved when using them.

I think you misread what we were saying. Nobody said meta lists where easy to fly, even though some are, as you yourself stated. What we said was that most tryhards flying "meta", at a store tourney level (where OP seemed to play), aren't particularly amazing at flying (compared to top tables are regionals or nationals) and can be beaten reliably if you have a "decent non-meta" list that you have practiced thoroughly.

I dunno about vineheart, but I stated it more as to tell OP that there's hope to beat the fortressing jerk described above if he stays positive and keeps practicing diligently good flying mechanics with a "solid but not meta list" that he likes as descrived above. (Unless ofc by some sheer stroke of horrendous bad luck that fortressing jerk just happens to be someone who places regularly at top regional or national tables).

(and also to be fair, the way this guy above said "don't celebrate just yet" makes me think OP may have started/said something first which he neglected to tell us above).

"(and also to be fair, the way this guy above said "don't celebrate just yet" makes me think OP may have started/said something first which he neglected to tell us above)"

You would think that, but that was just because I pushed a crit through on his palp shuttle.

This dude doesn't trust others generally. I fired Ion Missiles and he tossed my target lock away, not knowing the rules about them.

Sue me if I was excited, that was the only other ship I damaged that day. He got his win and I didn't even touch his defenders.

I think most of us have been there in some way, shape or form.

Back when I was dipping my toes into the water (many years ago, & different game) I'd just come out of losing my 2nd round in a tournament and happened to overhear my opponent talking about the round with his buddies. The exact specifics of what was said is something I don't remember very well, but suffice to say it didn't paint my skills or my choice of deck (card game) in a very positive light.

But two years later I was playing at nationals... And I do think that my initial motivation to improve was due at least in part to what I heard on that day.

I have to say that in my time I've probably been on both sides of the "new guy" thing, and with perspective, comments like this are most often more thoughtless than malicious (especially if there's alcohol involved).

There are a few things that I feel need to be said (and I mean these things in the most positive and constructive of lights).

1) No expectations:

When you turn up to a tournament, the only expectation you should have is that you're going to have fun and play some x-wing.

Sure it's nice to win, but you must be careful how much investment you place in that outcome. Placing a high emotional investment into victory can be seriously demoralizing if you don't achieve it. (and this is a danger that never goes away)

2) Try to leave your baggage at home.

I was trying to think of a less harsh sounding way to write this, but every other euphemism I could think of involved some degree of profanity.

This is also an important life skill, not just applicable to x-wing;

Trust me when I say that everyone has problems in their life; issues... Now, I apologise if I sound like I'm marginalising yours; that is not my intention.

My point is that when you come to play a tournament you need to set these things aside. Carrying them with you will do you no good.

3) Respect the Meta

Not essential to having a good tournament experience, but very important if you want to succeed.

I respect someone who sets up and flies their own list, but if you're going to do that you really want to make sure it's equipped to fight the things that you expect to face.

You may dislike defenders (and I don't blame you) but they are here to stay from the looks of it, so you need to make sure you can handle them. After all, nothing is going to make playing against defenders more enjoyable than crushing them, right?

The same goes for other popular lists you may have in your area. If a particular lost gives you trouble, get some practice playing against it (if possible with a more experienced player who is willing to share thoughts and insight on the matchup). Be prepared to tweak and otherwise alter your list based on the results of these matches. Despite any attachment to your list I urge you to be brutal here; keep what works, discard what does not.

Tournament play may not be for everyone, it's a lot more different from casual play than people (who haven't seen both sides of it) realise. Culture shock in the transition is a real thing.

But nonetheless it's not better or worse; just different.

1. Usually people playing "meta" lists at the store tourney level aren't particularly talented. If you have a list that you like and have practiced you can beat them. If you get trashed then maybe you need to reexamine your list or your practice methodology

...

People who only play meta lists are usually narrowminded and bad at adapting, which i prey upon. They rely on a gimick to keep them alive or kill things, not proper flying.

Completely baseless generalization.

Meta lists are popular not without reason: they are reliable and gives highest chance of success, thus competitive players use them.

If you think that using Imperial Aces during 8th wave didn't require proper flying and good strategy then I can only conclude that you don't know anything about this game.

Because when two competitive players with meta lists met at the table all that matters are flying skills.

Also try to fly Corran + Miranda list - it is one of those meta standards, or double bomber K-Wings for that matter. The last thing you can say is that those lists are easy to fly.

At the moment truly easy meta lists to fly are Dengaroo and quad TLT's - with those I agree with you, they are disgustingly easy to fly and minimal skill is involved when using them.

they are popular because they are stupid easy to play and either cut the hard part of the game out (flying) or allow you to be stupid and still win. Or in the case of Palpaces, Dengaroo and Tripboats, are so brokenly powerful that if you dont face it perfectly you lose and the player using those lists just has to not hit obstacles or bump.

You have any idea how many palpaces or palpdefender players ive faced that played it because it was "unstoppable"? They flew like idiots for the most part, expecting this magical being that is Palp to save them from every situation not just 1. Dengaroo as well, though not quite as bad. Ive seen so many stupid dengaroo builds and they thought that since they had those 2 ships they'd just auto win.

Not ALL meta list players are dense mofos, but a great deal are. There is a massive degree of understanding in this game if you concoct your own lists, even if they arent the best lists. I play literally everything except Iggys so i can understand how everything functions. "Meta players" only play what is current flavor of the month and never delve into any "lesser" lists, robbing them of some important knowledge.

Dont assume anything is a baseless opinion. Im not someone that plays this game once in a blue moon. I base my opinion on experience, and since i learned how the foundation of this game functions i noticed a trend in dang near ALL "meta lists" i see - theyre idiots flying an OP list they saw online. Theyre also stupid predictable as a result.

flying a meta list and flying well aren't mutually exclusive

X Wing tournaments are a whole other thing . You've got to leave aside the ships you love, and take the ships you know and the ones that are effective. You've got to keep your thumb closely on the pulse of the meta-game, stay up to date with the FAQ and Errata and with gaming etiquette, etc.

Frankly, I loathe it. It sucks everything that is Star Wars out of X Wing and leaves just a competitive, mathematical exercise.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, and my recommendation to you is to not do it again. Play casual. And I don't mean casual 100/6 games, I mean really get into the Star Wars universe and enjoy the game. Play Epic matches, play 600+ points a side matches with special objectives and scenario rules, play Heroes of the Aturi Cluster, play progressive campaigns where your pilots gain skill and renown, etc. Competitive play is fine every now and then, but it sure ain't the be-all and end-all of X Wing

X Wing tournaments are a whole other thing . You've got to leave aside the ships you love, and take the ships you know and the ones that are effective. You've got to keep your thumb closely on the pulse of the meta-game, stay up to date with the FAQ and Errata and with gaming etiquette, etc.

Frankly, I loathe it. It sucks everything that is Star Wars out of X Wing and leaves just a competitive, mathematical exercise.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, and my recommendation to you is to not do it again. Play casual. And I don't mean casual 100/6 games, I mean really get into the Star Wars universe and enjoy the game. Play Epic matches, play 600+ points a side matches with special objectives and scenario rules, play Heroes of the Aturi Cluster, play progressive campaigns where your pilots gain skill and renown, etc. Competitive play is fine every now and then, but it sure ain't the be-all and end-all of X Wing

We match build points: First player makes his build and the other matches the points, 143 vs 143 for example.

I could never stomach what a "Luke Skywalker versus Luke Skywalker" match does to the Star Wars theme of the game.

It is a whole other thing (also) in that you are forced to use obstacles which is optional in the core rules, and you are forced to play in a 3 foot by 3 foot area which is optional in the core rules.

With tournaments it's Star Wars but it's not Star Wars: If it were Star Trek and you could justify it with the Mirror Universe then that would make sense. But Han Solo killing Chewbacca, F**k that.

X Wing tournaments are a whole other thing . You've got to leave aside the ships you love, and take the ships you know and the ones that are effective.

again, not true

you just have to understand what is effective

and what's effective is dice modification

this has been the case since howlrunner existed

you just have to figure out a way to fly whatever you like with enough modifiers to prevent the dice from screwing you over

and sure, running predator r2-d2 integrated luke skywalker isn't "optimal", but "optimal" doesn't mean jack in a local environment when you're only pushing some 3/4 rounds without a cut. You can more than easily place high with good flying

without torp scouts to just completely blow through most squads in the game, the meta is pretty wide open and accepting

besides, if you don't like flying a ship you're just not going to learn to fly it as well as a ship you like

because you probably like flying the ship you like and will be willing to practice it more via flying

hell, that's how I got ARCs to breeze through x7 after x7 (and rau after rau, so many goddamn raus)

and more recently, Xizor. The starviper is a horrid overpriced ship, but Xizor still gets to troll around with target-lock re-rolls, autothrusters, gobs of focus and an "evade" (ability) if you build him right

seriously, mindlink makes every scum ship viable

you just have to figure out a way to fly

You can more than easily place high with good flying

besides, if you don't like flying a ship you're just not going to learn to fly it as well as a ship you like

because you probably like flying the ship you like and will be willing to practice it more via flying

you just have to figure out a way to fly

You can more than easily place high with good flying

besides, if you don't like flying a ship you're just not going to learn to fly it as well as a ship you like

because you probably like flying the ship you like and will be willing to practice it more via flying

I'd fly it

...

It was a waste of a Sunday night, to sit there and not even really get to play, to get berated by the drunken older guys for losing my matches or playing a list they thought was bad. I had high hopes for an, at least, decent night, win or lose. Instead I lost so quickly that I spent more time waiting for a game than playing, and basically spent $10 for an alt art Predator card.

It was a disappointing day.

That does sound like an all-together bad time. I'm sorry it was such a let-down. You know, a lot of people here, want to try and solve your problem, but sometimes, you just want to vent and have a sympathetic listener commiserate with you.

I am curious though ... after hearing one of your worst X-Wing experiences, what is your favorite X-Wing memory?

Playing my ruthlessness Vessery. I played against one of my buddies that I mentioned and it was a riot throwing around z-95's and spreading damage all around. I had X7, PTL, Ryad and Yorr too. I lost that game but it was a long game, maybe an hour and 15 minutes. I hilariously killed my own Ryad by getting greedy with ruthlessness and throwing a range 1 Ryad into a Shadowcaster. I lost but I loved the the match.

My other one was with a mini-swarm, Mauler and a Blacks with Crack, and two Deadeye, Homing, Gamma Bombers. I set up the first engagement really well, and decided not to spend my focus on my bomber to dodge a single crit so I could retaliate. I got Blinded Pilot.

My opponent had his own little swarm and Quickdraw, and I kid you not, my one bomber rolled double natural evades at least 3 times and diced up Quickdraw. The one turn I could shoot a missile with my bombers (which my opponent did a fantastic job of preventing) I deleted his howlrunner. I barely squeaked out the win by having the two Blacks face off with Dark Curse in the final rounds.