It looks like you had a tough time against some more experienced yet unpleasant opponents, and on top of that made a few mistakes while flying a difficult list. Carnor Jax is probably the single most difficult ship to keep alive while using his ability, but when you manage it he ruins x7 defenders. I've yet to try the strikers (they haven't been released where I am) but I doubt that they're easy to fly with the title. If I were you I would simply keep practicing on Vassal and/or on casual game nights, and keep my chin up because, like others have said, we've all been curb-stomped before. And don't forget that the vast majority of the X-Wing community is made up of generally nice people, so hopefully your unpleasant opponents that day were just outliers and most of your community is more fun to play against.

In my area I kind of have a reputation for being a difficult opponent to beat and whenever I'm facing a new player they tend to already know who I am and often start the game telling me that they're new and that they're going to lose. In these cases I feel like an ambassador to the game (so no trash talk like I do with my friends) and generally reply that you can never know the result before playing. Sometimes the matches are much closer than expected because they're super-concentrated on not making mistakes and end up doing everything right, and sometimes they're a walk through the park, but after the match I always try to start a polite discussion on where the match was decided, which maneuvers may have been better and generally try to improve their game. If we both walk away with a smile despite the result then all the better, because all we really want by playing is to spend a few hours going pew pew pew with plastic space ships.

Strikers aren't going to be easy ships to fly. They're fragile and very weird to manoeuvre by comparison to the average.

I wouldn't expect your list to counter palp/defenders well at all TBH. Carnor is the only thing you have that does that in any way at all, and he still doesn't counter them completely - they still get their evade token from /x7 even if they end at R1 of him, so unless he ends at R1 of them, they still get a good chunk of their defensive value.

The best counters I've seen for Defenders are bombs, particularly Conner Nets. Ionised Defenders are just sad. Especially if you Ionise Ryad whilst she's stressed...

--

Overall: it's a tough meta to get into competitive games right now. Palp Defenders is really a tough nut to crack until you know the tricks, but learning the tricks isn't easy - the tricks primarily being ionising them, tractoring them, blocking them, overwhelming them with massive single attacks, and killing palp first. And Homing Missiles. Running up against them twice in a row whilst running a brand new list with brand new, fragile, weird-to-manoeuvre ships is a recipe for a bad time unfortunately. The iffy environment didn't help either, and your opponents should have been more chilled.

But as long as you've learned something from your experience, you'll come back to the next time stronger.

I think your list, while clearly not powerplay, is quite decent. It suffers from some ships (the Academy TIE) being outpowercrept, but it has some real potential. Also a high demand on you as a player, though!

What I found is that I perform better the less i expect of myself. I went into my first tournament expecting nothing - went second. I went into my second tournament thinking "hey, last time I was pretty good, let me keep that up!". Well...28th out of 30 I think? Recently won my first tournament with bomber K-Wings whom I brought because it was what I wanted to play, even though I had only played the specific list twice and lost both games - that day went pretty well!

Sucks a lot that the players around you don't have the social skills to make every game an enjoyable experience for everyone involved, winning or losing. Especially in a casual setting like a bar that should be expected!

Honestly, I have no problems playing against somebody who is fortressing (as long as their dials are put down quickly, because opening moves for a fortress are almost always planned in advance). It may not be the most fun thing to watch, but I find it to be a good lesson for myself when playing against it. It taught me to be patient, and plan my approach correctly. If you're playing against somebody who is fortressing, just know that while they are sitting in the corner, there is another 3/4 of board space free to roam around in. Flank your opponent, let them sit in the corner while you set up the perfect attack vectors. Also, final salvo should be a consideration when playing against a fortress. I'm more than content to let my opponent sit in the corner as long as they desire because as long as you have more printed attack dice than them, they will have to leave it eventually. Also, some degree of fortressing is almost a necessity when flying the Lambda, otherwise that thing will never keep its guns on target for multiple rounds, and I admit I do fortress a bit when flying it. As I said earlier though, opening moves for a fortress are usually planned out before the game even starts so I always strive to have my all my dials down within 10-15 seconds during the opening rounds when I do choose to fortress.

Making fun of someone because he's a minor is just... low.

Kids these days.

/ runsandhides

There's some really nice posts here to help the OP which is really nice. But I think one thing I wish I could impress on older players is in general how poorly they've behaved and treated younger folk in general at xwing and armada games I've seen. I think most of the time the scene is great but a lot a lot of older players have rubbed me the wrong way over and over. Being overly tricksy to beat a 12 year old. Being uncommunicative and sulky. Not offering good sportsmanship and respect during matches. In general being assholes.

I think you guys can kind of take a realize this of course doesn't mean everyone but by and large interactions I've had with older gamers has not been good fun. It has been deeply below the standard ID hope for.

Especially if this doesn't pertain to you, I'd hope you can pass this along within your communities so that others don't encounter the same problems.

Huh.. All I get from this is showing off that you have a Striker and have seen Rogue One.

Try living my life.

The kicking your list got from other lists that were top tier is just what it is. It sucks but it happens and can only be got around by researching what you will have and planning how your list will have and chance against them etcetc.

The people though? Sounds pretty toxic. Where I play we love when younger players show up and cater to them equally. It's a real shame this place wasn't like that, is there somewhere else you can get to? In my experience the vast majority of xwing scenes are friendly and accommodating to all ages.

As a young player myself, I know how it feels to be thrashed in a tournament. When I was a tad younger, I had to ride my bike everywhere, including 4 miles to the nearest tournaments. This was normally worth it.

However, I arrived a tad late to a tournamen once, paid my $15 entry fee and took a loss for the first round (0 MOV). I then lost the second and third rounds so fast I had time to play a second game against my opponent, where I lost equally fast. By the end of the tournament, I was in bottom place with 0-15 MOV, so I took the loss and got some gunner alt-art cards. $15 for some demoralising losses and a couple cards I already had. I felt awful because its basically a whole day event for me (ride in, compete, ride out again) and I work in the evenings. So a pretty awful way to waste my day like that. The only good part was that my opponents were fairly understanding.

Also, my list may or may no have had TIE Punishers in it. I've learned that at tournaments you either take a competitive list that you've practiced with at casual games, or something so off the walls that your opponent loses out of shock.

You aren't responsible for what others do to you, but they aren't responsible for how you feel about it either. You can either choose to have a poor attitude about their poor attitude and misconduct in how they treated you as you lost, or you can.choose to learn from it and work on finding a different venue for playing.

Even if I was a top ace, and I'm not, I wouldn't want to play with those guys from just their attitude alone. I think the best thing you can do is find a more casual atmosphere where folks are welcoming of newcomers, or at least can limit the trash talk to friendly instead of putting folks down.

Your list isn't a bad list, but it's hard to fly well. The margin between brilliance and blowing apart is a thread. Take that and put it against top meta lists and you're bound to have issues until you learn how to fly it really well and how you can best counter those lists with yours. Try to learn from it, and just get back out and play so you can pick up how your ships move.

The best weapon in the game of xwing isn't your list. It's the experience that comes with playing many other lists and knowing how best to tackle the problem you're faced with. I'm no expert at this - I probably have a close to 50-50 win-loss "record" if we bothered to write down the outcomes, but I always do what I can to learn something when I lose.

Your list isn't a bad list, but it's hard to fly well. The margin between brilliance and blowing apart is a thread. Take that and put it against top meta lists and you're bound to have issues until you learn how to fly it really well and how you can best counter those lists with yours. Try to learn from it, and just get back out and play so you can pick up how your ships move.

It's also worth noting that with a list like that, even if you *do* fly it perfectly, it has a total of 15 HP behind 3 green dice. A few unlucky rolls can kill it in a snap.

It's a bummer to lose when playing 'experimental' lists. If they cannot see past the fact they have probably been playing some iteration of that list for months, then that's on them. If you like your list, keep practicing it. I usually play a different list at every single tournament. I do not get enough games in between, so the only time I get to try new stuff is when it's showtime. It's still very possible to beat these 'meta' lists, regardless of what list you bring.

The bar/gaming thing is one of the downsides of that kind of establishment. I am of age, but I choose not to drink and personally have hesitations about it at a gaming establishment, though I can see the marketing appeal. I would also be annoyed at that situation regardless of if it was happening to me or someone else. I simply dislike being around drunks.

We all get crushed sometimes, even when we had the upper hand at some point. I have learned from those experiences to make my flying what it is today.

You aren't responsible for what others do to you, but they aren't responsible for how you feel about it either. You can either choose to have a poor attitude about their poor attitude and misconduct in how they treated you as you lost, or you can.choose to learn from it and work on finding a different venue for playing.

Even if I was a top ace, and I'm not, I wouldn't want to play with those guys from just their attitude alone. I think the best thing you can do is find a more casual atmosphere where folks are welcoming of newcomers, or at least can limit the trash talk to friendly instead of putting folks down.

I mean, I'm proud of myself for going there when the next youngest person around me was at least 5-6 years older.

I could go into more detail about the crap I've had in my life that made me want to enjoy one night of X-Wing, but this is not the place for that.

I am encouraged to fly that list more, but as far as local gaming communities go, I live in the middle of nowhere, and have an 8-mile radius around my home where theres nothing to do. There are really only two stores. I may be moving in a couple years so hopefully I can be closer to civilization, but until then I'll keep on playing.

I am sorry to hear you had a bad run of it man. I have been playing in Wargaming tourneys since I was 13, so I am used to it now. When I was younger though, I did run into a couple bad eggs that almost got me to quit. You had the double misfortune of running into these types WHILE they were drinking, which usually amplifies peoples attitudes for good or ill.

Don't be too hard on yourself. This was your first tournament, and from what I read here you actually flew pretty well considering your sub optimal build. Try another small tournament, and put in some practice for it ahead of time. You will get better and better and the competitive scene really is a ton of fun once you acclimatize.

Wasn't trying to say you were having the wrong attitude about it, only a caution that there are two ways to look at everything and more of a small nudge towards taking the higher road.

I understand the limited venue thing -- not for X-wing specifically, but other things I enjoy doing, in my area, have really limited opportunity. Hope that your venue turns around some though, because that attitude is what pushes new folks away and eventually kills the establishment.

The guys I usually played were at the top tables, all sorts came out of the woodwork. I understand about the attitude thing, and I honestly believed I could of put up more of a fight. I'm not a sore loser by any means, and I really can laugh at my own misfortune, but that night was a special combination of disappointing events.

Hi JB, don't get too discouraged. I've had similar experiences at previous tournaments. Sounds like you got quite invested in your list, which happens all the time: it 'looks good' on paper, and maybe has even done well in a few limited games but then gets stomped upon. That's an unexpected shock and can really put a downer on the whole event.

Your list is quite high variance, and there's a good write up on that here: http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/in-my-experience-theres-no-such-thing.html?m=1

With few hit points in total, if your green dice fail your going out early. Deathfire needs both of those glass cannons around to be able to get into a good position, and if either Sabaac or Carnor go down you're facing a massive struggle - judging by report that's basically what happened. As a newer player I'd recommend taking ships with more "beef". You'll likely still lose BUT you will get more table time, which equates to a better experience and importantly MORE experience; a chance to really evaluate your opponents play.

Try playing X7s yourself: what moments or opponents cause you difficulty? Then leverage that knowledge when you face them yourself.

Also be mindful of your own emotions pre, during and post game. You rightly noted that you had put a lot of expectation into the event, had some set backs (broke a ship), were 'left out' of the drinking etc etc. Learn from that experience and then next time pause to evaluate how you feel.

I don't think you'll make the same errors next time (you'll make new ones!) but every game and every tournament you will learn from those mistakes even to the point where you will surprise yourself by seeing other people make them!

You aren't responsible for what others do to you, but they aren't responsible for how you feel about it either. You can either choose to have a poor attitude about their poor attitude and misconduct in how they treated you as you lost, or you can.choose to learn from it and work on finding a different venue for playing.

Even if I was a top ace, and I'm not, I wouldn't want to play with those guys from just their attitude alone. I think the best thing you can do is find a more casual atmosphere where folks are welcoming of newcomers, or at least can limit the trash talk to friendly instead of putting folks down.

The guys I usually played were at the top tables, all sorts came out of the woodwork. I understand about the attitude thing, and I honestly believed I could of put up more of a fight. I'm not a sore loser by any means, and I really can laugh at my own misfortune, but that night was a special combination of disappointing events.

I mean, I'm proud of myself for going there when the next youngest person around me was at least 5-6 years older.

I could go into more detail about the crap I've had in my life that made me want to enjoy one night of X-Wing, but this is not the place for that.

I am encouraged to fly that list more, but as far as local gaming communities go, I live in the middle of nowhere, and have an 8-mile radius around my home where theres nothing to do. There are really only two stores. I may be moving in a couple years so hopefully I can be closer to civilization, but until then I'll keep on playing.

If you are looking to get good games in with a larger variety of opponents and a generally good community (there are still some bad apples), try out Vassal.

Hi JB, don't get too discouraged. I've had similar experiences at previous tournaments. Sounds like you got quite invested in your list, which happens all the time: it 'looks good' on paper, and maybe has even done well in a few limited games but then gets stomped upon. That's an unexpected shock and can really put a downer on the whole event.

Your list is quite high variance, and there's a good write up on that here: http://stayontheleader.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/in-my-experience-theres-no-such-thing.html?m=1

With few hit points in total, if your green dice fail your going out early. Deathfire needs both of those glass cannons around to be able to get into a good position, and if either Sabaac or Carnor go down you're facing a massive struggle - judging by report that's basically what happened. As a newer player I'd recommend taking ships with more "beef". You'll likely still lose BUT you will get more table time, which equates to a better experience and importantly MORE experience; a chance to really evaluate your opponents play.

Try playing X7s yourself: what moments or opponents cause you difficulty? Then leverage that knowledge when you face them yourself.

Also be mindful of your own emotions pre, during and post game. You rightly noted that you had put a lot of expectation into the event, had some set backs (broke a ship), were 'left out' of the drinking etc etc. Learn from that experience and then next time pause to evaluate how you feel.

I don't think you'll make the same errors next time (you'll make new ones!) but every game and every tournament you will learn from those mistakes even to the point where you will surprise yourself by seeing other people make them!

Daaaaamn that's deep man.

Makes me realise I've really been looking for a low variance option but keep coming back to high variance options with big attempts at variance reduction (e.g. well-built Imp Aces, now Mindlink) and when I've used my highest variance lists (in particular, Soontir/Carnor/OL at Yavin), I've had a miserable time because even when variance isn't hurting you, those sorts of lists are horribly intolerant of mistakes.

Bring me my deci/upsilon list.

I started playing a couple of years ago and went through a lot of frustration before I was able to place and even win in local tournaments.

I still make mistakes, but my experience has taught me to learn from them and move on.

Don't be afraid to fly out of the box. I regularly fly a Punisher list with good success - managing top 8 at our store championship with it.

I also recently made Top 16 at my first ever regional with a list I had only flown 2-3 times. I flew horribly in 3 of the 7 games I played, but 4-2 Swiss was enough to get me in Top 16.

Keep at it and don't get too discouraged.

You can't blame people for wanting to perform well in tournaments.

But you can for getting drunk and taking the [censored] out of minors who are having trouble/bad luck.

Sorry to hear things didn't go well - but I generally go to an event assuming I'll lose (but doing my damndest to win).

It's an unusual squad - but once you get your head around it (and tweak it to how you fly) you will get dangerous with it. Nothing's more dangerous at an event where everyone brings "that list off the internet" than someone with something weird that they've played a lot of games with (and lost a lot of games with) against "those lists off the internet", because they know how to take your squad apart, and you don't know theirs.

TIE/x7 defenders are powerful, but there are ways to kill them. Each time you lose, have a sit down and think how you could have done better - not "if I rolled better", but actually what you'd want to do, tactics or strategy, to best them.

You've got blockers, ion mines, two aces with higher pilot skills than the normal defender suspects, and the ability to take that free evade away. All of those are really, really bad things for a TIE defender pilot. You've got the tools to take defenders out....you just need the practice and the plan. (And no, sorry, I don't have the experience to offer one - not my squad style). But you can come up with one. And then you can bring the same squad back and make a mess of the squads you lost to this time.

If you don't have access to a store to practice easily, I heartily concur with those recommending Vassal.

Each time you lose, have a sit down and think how you could have done better - not "if I rolled better", but actually what you'd want to do, tactics or strategy, to best them.

This is a really important piece of advice if you want to avoid burning out on x-wing, or any competitive game, for two reasons:

1: the point about dice. Two things on them: one: sometimes variance does kill you, especially when you run 4 ships with 18hp between them, and only one shield. Two: variance is very rarely the *only* thing that kills you - so learn to recognise when your dice are hot or not, and regardless of whether they are hot or not, to recognise your mistakes.

2: the point about learning from your mistakes - this is vital - recognise where you went wrong, and do your best not to repeat it. But importantly, don't dwell on your bad beats, and especially don't dwell on your stupid mistakes. Once you've filed the lessons learned away, keep them that way if you can.

That does sound frustrating and the people sounded like jerks. I'm sorry that you had a crappy time. It happens like that.

I say you have two options before you. The first is to practice a lot vs. the tournament lists that you know you will see. I've really found you have to know how a lot of other lists fly and figure out how to beat them. It really does take a lot of time figuring out your list and getting to know how to fly it. It takes a lot of work and practice, but it's required if you want to do well at tournaments.

The other is to stop going to tournaments. Seriously, though, do you really need to? You have to spend money to do it and then you are basically flying some of the worst lists out there over and over again. It brings out the worst people to play against, as well (not that everyone at tournaments are bad, but the bad do go to tournaments). I've quit going and had a lot more fun without them.

Sorry you had a lousy time. This happens sometimes in competitive tournaments. Stinks that people were being verbally abusive like you said though. I'm actually very surprised by that, as X-Wing players have ALWAYS been incredibly supportive and nice from my experience.

I will echo the surprise as well. I got stomped at my first tournament too, but people was nice, and I kept playing.

I have never tried heard about verbal abuse in a tournament before.

But as the rest of the people say. Learn from the plays in the tournament, not the socially handicapped skills your opponents displayed.

.. And btw. Who drinks alcohol at a tournament?

Going to tournaments alone always makes it more likely something like this happens.

When I'm heading into a tournament where I don't know anyone my #1 objective is to get to know people, my #2 objective is to try and win games. Tournaments can be really lonely, especially if you're starting out and don't have somebody to lean on.

What I'm taking away here is that minors shouldn't go to bars.

Then maybe they shouldn't host an X-wing tournament in a bar...