Ok, no spoiler to Rogue One

(but beware, some replies could have)

Ok so long, in TFA, in RO and even in some Rebels' episodes, i figured out hyperspace travel are REALLY WRONG

hyperspace travel time should be really short, feww hours, maybe one day top (at x1)

This is what seeing movies/series make me wonders... weeks of traveling are really unlikely...

Travel in the moves/tv series is always "speed of plot."

For example, right now, with Return of the Jedi on my TV, in the briefing scene, Mon Mothma stressed that, "The time for our attack is now ." How urgent would that be if Endor were a week or more's travel time away (explicitly, anyway)?

For that matter, the same goes for RPG's. The only real reason to stress a travel time would be if there's some sort of ticking clock or other deadline that might be missed. Hyperdrive speeds and modifiers are a mechanic provided to allow for ships to have travel times relative to one another, as opposed to the galaxy at large. For the most part, unless there's that ticking clock, even travel times in the game are, "OK, you got in your ship and took off. Aaand, now you're at your destination."

Travel in the moves/tv series is always "speed of plot."

For example, right now, with Return of the Jedi on my TV, in the briefing scene, Mon Mothma stressed that, "The time for our attack is now ." How urgent would that be if Endor were a week or more's travel time away (explicitly, anyway)?

For that matter, the same goes for RPG's. The only real reason to stress a travel time would be if there's some sort of ticking clock or other deadline that might be missed. Hyperdrive speeds and modifiers are a mechanic provided to allow for ships to have travel times relative to one another, as opposed to the galaxy at large. For the most part, unless there's that ticking clock, even travel times in the game are, "OK, you got in your ship and took off. Aaand, now you're at your destination."

I can't agree with you on this. The speed of hyperdrives in my games is a very real concern, and taking a week or more to move vessels into position is something that we incorporate into our stories. We don't do "speed of plot" but instead make the plot work with the speed of the hyperdrives.

Travel in the moves/tv series is always "speed of plot."

For example, right now, with Return of the Jedi on my TV, in the briefing scene, Mon Mothma stressed that, "The time for our attack is now ." How urgent would that be if Endor were a week or more's travel time away (explicitly, anyway)?

For that matter, the same goes for RPG's. The only real reason to stress a travel time would be if there's some sort of ticking clock or other deadline that might be missed. Hyperdrive speeds and modifiers are a mechanic provided to allow for ships to have travel times relative to one another, as opposed to the galaxy at large. For the most part, unless there's that ticking clock, even travel times in the game are, "OK, you got in your ship and took off. Aaand, now you're at your destination."

I can't agree with you on this. The speed of hyperdrives in my games is a very real concern, and taking a week or more to move vessels into position is something that we incorporate into our stories. We don't do "speed of plot" but instead make the plot work with the speed of the hyperdrives.

Fair enough. Toss a "generally speaking" and/or "in some cases" in my initial post. Me and broad strokes...always gets me in trouble.

No trouble. I enjoy this game quite a bit, particularly for the blending of traditional and narrative mechanics. I am fully aware, however, that I tend to be more biased towards the traditional mechanics side over "hard narrative" than many on these boards.

In the movies and TV shows, it's all very much speed of plot. Does anyone ever start a trip and end it in different clothes, even?

For my games, I've kept it vague; basically, it's handwaved, but travel takes time, because that's the feel I want (originally, we were talking about a Traveller game, but one player looked at the Trav rules and said nuh-uh). "A day or two later, you make it to the Wheel" is about as detailed as we've been so far, other than in Beyond the Rim.

Your differing viewpoints need not be mutually exclusive, even within the same game. Certainly, for a campaign or adventure where logistics and precise record- and time-keeping plays an important role I can certainly see the necessity for incorporating that level of planning. On the other hand, if the PCs are traveling to an adventure location, I don't see any problem with saying "OK, you arrive at 0930 local time, feeling well-rested." If the travel time itself doesn't add anything to the story, I don't any issues with ignoring it.

I think that movies and (especially) episodic series do a fairly terrible job of explaining logistics to any degree. There's little drama there for anyone other than the logistician, so it gets conveniently taken care of "off-screen." In the Clone Wars series, you knew that travel was occurring and time was passing, but it was purposely nebulous, because General Kenobi wondering if he'll arrive in time is dramatic, but General Kenobi staring at the walls of his stateroom for 10 days of hyperspace travel - not so much.

EDIT: One final note; I think that the effects of time dilation and FTL travel raise some questions amongst hardcore sci-fi enthusiasts and that hand-waving a lot of the details allows writers (both game designers and show/series writers) from wrestling with physics too much.

Keep in mind Star Wars is space opera, not really sci fi. A sci fi flick, even marginally will highlight travel times. Space opera is about the people and the story, it could be any era, it's just got a spacey skin stuck on it.

The devs provide basic math for travel times taking drive rating and rough distance traveled into account, so it certainly is laid out to be an issue if a table desires. I hand wave it and ships are mostly magic carpets in my games, but the mechanics are there for detail if so desired.

Every movie contradicts the previous movies in some way. In the movies it is "speed plot", "ability to communicate according to the needs of the plot", "R2D2 gains abilities as needed", "dialogs are changing with each new edition", etc. For the game we have to have some basic rules which each GM sets according to his view of the SW Universe. Cannon changes faster than the new edition of SW RPG are created....

I stick pretty rigidly to the travel times and differences in classes for the home game I GM.

But I also plan the galaxy spanning long jumps for the end of sessions. This is usually the only rest my party gets during their action packed adventures.

This then allows for between session xrafting, upgrading and repairing mini sessions done over Facebook, so as not to waste table time.

Got no problem with the "speed of plot" solution; mostly of time there is no need to carefully write down the time you spend on hyperspace.

Aside from special situation (ie when you're pursuing someone, or for wounded char healing factor) it could be 1 minute or several days of travel, there is no difference. And you can easily manage "by plot" the pursuing factor.

However, a RPG game need some more coherent solution.

- If an imperial starfleet can go anywhere in minutes range, an "hit and run" tactic has to be used very quickly and only on very isolated planet/location or they will be overwhelmed. If a rebel cell get caught on a planet, probably the planet will be surrounded and got into a blockade in less than 10 minute while a couple of system fleet can be in almost no time.

- Viceversa if hypespace travel is in days or weeks range, a rebel fleet can arrange a more complex tactic, even assaulting on large numbers just because the imperial response will be very slow. A rebel cell can act almost relentlessy, knowing there are a big windows of opportunity to flee

In canon, Han talk about his ship being "faster than imperial ship" (and yes, also the thing about the kessel run ). It's clearly stated is an hyperspace speed, not sublight speed. If the difference about a slow ship and a fast ship is 1 minute, there's no point on saying that.

Several episodes of clone wars/rebels start while on hypertravel

While traveling to Alderaan (sigh) Han leave the flying stick and goes talking with his passengers; Luke and Obi Wan are training, and Chewie is playing chess with the droids. We can't say how much time they are doing it, but sure they are'nt for 1 minute.

In Rogue One alone

The whole "too far from galactic core to be safe from empire's grip" take no sense if hyper travel is too fast...

I think working the plot around the rules (fisic/scientific rules, not game rules) is way better than viceversa

There seems to be a !arge gap in the abilities of craft between RPG and the game. From what Ive seen in the films star destroyers have pretty good straight line speed. The Falcon for example cannot outrun them in Empire., yet it's upgraded speed would be about the same as an x wing in game so speed 2 (stasr destroyer) and speed 4 or 5 (falcon).

The transit times in the OT were rather vague the alderaan trip could have been a few hours or na week, but given the configuration of an x wing I doubt anyone could sit in one for even 24 hrs never mind the extended hyperspace trips quoted in the RPG games, for example Luke's trip from Hoth to Dagobah, bathroom breaks alone would be a problem in an x wing.

The prequels and newer films seem to focus in on much swifter travel times as do the cartoon series. With times seemingly much faster (example getting supplies to Ryloth while Master IMA Gun Di takes the time it takes him to pull off a last stand to get there. Han tracked the Falcon and was on top of it within moments. The fleet on R1 getting to Scariff in the same amount of time that the battle was still taking place. I actually prefer this shorter hyperspace time to the days and weeks version, as if you have it standardised as such then the difference of 5 minutes of travel time to a warzone can make a huge difference but if it was going to be 2 days then the immediancy in such a large galaxy is lost, however I do think the differences should be meaningful, otherwise why get a drive that can go 0.5 past light speed and brag about it.

When it comes to hyperspace travel times I take Obi-Wan's advice.... 'No Questions Asked'

I think authors and screenwriters should write as if they were playing an RPG. They need to stick to the rules of the universe they create, it not only helps with consistency but causes them to think up obstacles and challenges for the protagonists to overcome that they wouldn't have thought otherwise. Too many so-called 'writers' nowadays use the excuse of 'narrative' to just have crap happen for the 'drama'. 'New' Who is particularly bad for this, suddenly the Doctor just pulls something out of his arse and magics it all better.

I actually requested a topic on this matter in the facebook group earlier this week!

Here it is:

I suggested this show topic a few times but unfortunately thus far to no avail... Which is understandable because it is not the most sexy of topics, but, having just seen Rogue One and all the zipping about between planets in this amazing flick, I thought I'd give it another shot.
Travel.

I feel that in a game set in a galaxy far, far away travel still doesn't feel impactful at all. We have the rules and we have the equipment. There is Astrogation, there are classes of Hyperdrives and the like.
However, I have after playing and GMing the system for years had zero excitement out of this part of the game. Travel usually is downtime and fails/threat on Astrogation usually comes down to pretty "meh" stuff....
All of this is what led me to try to float this topic idea again as even the movies seem pretty inconclusive as to how long hyperspace travel takes (I really don't like the "as long as it needs to"-reply all that much to be honest) in R1 ships leave one system only to show up in another mere minutes later, in ANH hyperspace travel takes days, etc.

The game takes place in space and travel is an integral part of it but it never feels that way...
I want to make this part of the game impactful and fun and after reading the Navigator Spec for F&D I think I might not be the only one looking for more in this field...

Either way, I never listen anyway...

Historical note: DanteRotterdam and I are now in agreement for the third time in recorded board history. Signs and portents...

I've just realised as well in, the LoTR trilogy.. Frodo turns up in Rivendell and suddenly so do all the representatives of the Free People. Didn't it take elven outriders three months to get to the dwarfes of the Grey Mountains or something,,,, Just a scene or two showing outriders getting ready, the slow recovery of Frodo from the wound of the Morgul Blade, Gandalf discussing the time/distance between the different races with Elrond etc

Historical note: DanteRotterdam and I are now in agreement for the third time in recorded board history. Signs and portents...

It's not that bad. You just remember our initial struggles too well!

I think authors and screenwriters should write as if they were playing an RPG. They need to stick to the rules of the universe they create, it not only helps with consistency but causes them to think up obstacles and challenges for the protagonists to overcome that they wouldn't have thought otherwise. Too many so-called 'writers' nowadays use the excuse of 'narrative' to just have crap happen for the 'drama'. 'New' Who is particularly bad for this, suddenly the Doctor just pulls something out of his arse and magics it all better.

Don't hate me for going all "certain point of view" on this.

From a certain point of view, they are going by the rules of the universe. As seen on screen for 34 years. The game rules came later, as a mechanic partly to differentiate the speed of different ships.

How long did the trip from Tatooine to Alderran take? Looks like maybe 15-20 minutes; long enough for Chewie to leave the cockpit and start the dejarik game, but Han stayed in the cockpit long enough to make sure they'd truly slipped those Star Destroyers.

How long did it take the Rebel fighters to get to Eadu? Looks like a little more than however long it took Jyn to leave the ship and get to the platform.

In game, these transits would indeed take longer. On screen, though, travel time and distance is only a factor if it serves the plot, like the Falcon's broken hyperdrive.

I think authors and screenwriters should write as if they were playing an RPG. They need to stick to the rules of the universe they create, it not only helps with consistency but causes them to think up obstacles and challenges for the protagonists to overcome that they wouldn't have thought otherwise. Too many so-called 'writers' nowadays use the excuse of 'narrative' to just have crap happen for the 'drama'. 'New' Who is particularly bad for this, suddenly the Doctor just pulls something out of his arse and magics it all better.

Don't hate me for going all "certain point of view" on this.

From a certain point of view, they are going by the rules of the universe. As seen on screen for 34 years. The game rules came later, as a mechanic partly to differentiate the speed of different ships.

How long did the trip from Tatooine to Alderran take? Looks like maybe 15-20 minutes; long enough for Chewie to leave the cockpit and start the dejarik game, but Han stayed in the cockpit long enough to make sure they'd truly slipped those Star Destroyers.

How long did it take the Rebel fighters to get to Eadu? Looks like a little more than however long it took Jyn to leave the ship and get to the platform.

In game, these transits would indeed take longer. On screen, though, travel time and distance is only a factor if it serves the plot, like the Falcon's broken hyperdrive.

Sorry, should have been clearer there, I'm not just talking hyperspace but in general, for anything not just Star Wars. There seems to be an ever-growing cop-out in all forms of media these days for the sake of 'drama' I feel, just look at the reasons given by the creator for the rebooted Battlestar Galactica for how it ended ("It was always just about the characters anyway!") and especially Lost.

Ok so long, in TFA, in RO and even in some Rebels' episodes, i figured out hyperspace travel are REALLY WRONG

hyperspace travel time should be really short, feww hours, maybe one day top (at x1)

Actually, go back to Phantom Menace and see how long it takes Maul to get from the center of the galaxy to Tatooine - a day tops. Now almost certainly he has the baddest, most pimped out ride that Palpatine can find for him with the fastest hyperdrive, but that still gives us a rough idea of some travel times.

The discrepancy might be solved if we assume that it's more about the quality of the route than the distance. The worse the route, the more the drive has to make "adjustments", and more adjustments means longer journeys. These can still be cut shorter by a faster hyperdrive, but it does explain a lot of the instantaneous travel seen in the media. Routes also start to have value in the right hands.

The discrepancy might be solved if we assume that it's more about the quality of the route than the distance. The worse the route, the more the drive has to make "adjustments", and more adjustments means longer journeys. These can still be cut shorter by a faster hyperdrive, but it does explain a lot of the instantaneous travel seen in the media. Routes also start to have value in the right hands.

That's not really an assumption. It's an actual in-universe fact. This is why there are specific hyperspace routes established, such as the Permilian Trade route and Corellian Run. It's much faster to travel along established routes than more risky ones.

The discrepancy might be solved if we assume that it's more about the quality of the route than the distance. The worse the route, the more the drive has to make "adjustments", and more adjustments means longer journeys. These can still be cut shorter by a faster hyperdrive, but it does explain a lot of the instantaneous travel seen in the media. Routes also start to have value in the right hands.

That's not really an assumption. It's an actual in-universe fact. This is why there are specific hyperspace routes established, such as the Permilian Trade route and Corellian Run. It's much faster to travel along established routes than more risky ones.

Well, that's close, but it's not quite what I'm saying. I'm saying if all things are equal, distance is almost irrelevant. So those old grids and calculating travel times based on the galactic XYZ coordinates can be tossed out. With the right route and a good hyperdrive you can get across the galaxy within a few hours.

The discrepancy might be solved if we assume that it's more about the quality of the route than the distance. The worse the route, the more the drive has to make "adjustments", and more adjustments means longer journeys. These can still be cut shorter by a faster hyperdrive, but it does explain a lot of the instantaneous travel seen in the media. Routes also start to have value in the right hands.

That's not really an assumption. It's an actual in-universe fact. This is why there are specific hyperspace routes established, such as the Permilian Trade route and Corellian Run. It's much faster to travel along established routes than more risky ones.

Well, that's close, but it's not quite what I'm saying. I'm saying if all things are equal, distance is almost irrelevant. So those old grids and calculating travel times based on the galactic XYZ coordinates can be tossed out. With the right route and a good hyperdrive you can get across the galaxy within a few hours.

Exactly. This isn't an assumption. The routes I mentioned are exactly what you're describing. Travelling along well established routes, are much faster (and safer), regardless of the galactic coordinates between the start point and destination, than more rarely used routes even if the distances are longer with the well established route than with the less used route. However, you're still not going to cross the entire galaxy in a matter of hours. Using the travel times listed on table 7-14 in F&D, travelling between sectors on one of the five main established routes would take only about three days, whereas using a less established route will likely take a week or more.