But activation advantage also should give you the ability to park in front of a target ship and force them into range of your blacks before you activate.

Oh for speed 0 entrapment nebs.

But activation advantage also should give you the ability to park in front of a target ship and force them into range of your blacks before you activate.

Oh for speed 0 entrapment nebs.

Sure, but the point still stands that activation advantage wins that fight for you too, as their opponent. If I can be threatening side arcs on two of those speed-zero Nebs as of the end of the round, one of them is getting blown away like the gutless yellowbelly he is even if he has first player.

But activation advantage also should give you the ability to park in front of a target ship and force them into range of your blacks before you activate.

Oh for speed 0 entrapment nebs.

Sure, but the point still stands that activation advantage wins that fight for you too, as their opponent. If I can be threatening side arcs on two of those speed-zero Nebs as of the end of the round, one of them is getting blown away like the gutless yellowbelly he is even if he has first player.

But then they will be speed 2! Brace tokens work at entrapment speed 0

Activation and activation advantage are just game mechanics that you just have to get used to and learn how to manipulate as you learn to play this game.

Like everything else, the required amount of activation will ebb and flow with the rest of the meta.

Brace tokens work at entrapment speed 0

You're pulling my leg, right? We can't all be British...

Brace tokens work at entrapment speed 0

You're pulling my leg, right? We can't all be British...

well the world would be a better place!

Pelta enabled temp speed 0

I find ships that heavily rely on black dice really need first player,

I'm not sure I agree. Certainly, first player+activation advantage makes them easier to use. But activation advantage also should give you the ability to park in front of a target ship and force them into range of your blacks before you activate. This can actually give you a comparable concentration of fire to a last/first activation, with the added advantage of playing your own objective.

So really, activation advantage is a bigger deal than initiative for black-dice ships, imo. With the caveat that I play Rebels so I see the world through MC30-colored glasses.

I guess everyone has different metas and experiences. Up here in SnowLand people are still going with 20+ point bids for first player, with a bid that size I don't think they care about activation advantage. I've been running 5 activation fleet for the past few months and have only been out activated by all ship lists or lists with more than 3 floatillas, in either case they had to give up something important to get that many activations. Another way to look at it is you can lose activation advantage, but you can't lose first player. You can park in front of me, but unless you have something else to deter me, I could just stop.

Brace tokens work at entrapment speed 0

You're pulling my leg, right? We can't all be British...

well the world would be a better place!

Pelta enabled temp speed 0

Right, but you can still only activate one at a time to jump up from speed zero. The Pelta speed change hits during Determine Course, not when the Pelta spends the token.

Meaning that if, like I said, two are threatened at the end of the round, one's going kablam before it gets to brace.

Brace tokens work at entrapment speed 0

You're pulling my leg, right? We can't all be British...

well the world would be a better place!

Pelta enabled temp speed 0

Right, but you can still only activate one at a time to jump up from speed zero. The Pelta speed change hits during Determine Course, not when the Pelta spends the token.

Meaning that if, like I said, two are threatened at the end of the round, one's going kablam before it gets to brace.

Only if you get 6 dmg past a bracing ship. Even mc30s struggle with 12 dmg!

Oh the troll

Despite my reservations on the squad front...

I do like where the game is heading post CC/W5. I like the variety, the alternative gameplay, and the new options especially on the Imperial side of the fence.

I hope CC draws players in. Even if it's not tournament play, I'd like to see some life locally in the game. Otherwise I'm convinced the local scene is never destined to grow.

I completely agree. I'm taking the initiative here locally after the first of the year, all I can offer is advice to do the same.

Oh. Well if we have anecdotal statistically-significant evidence prior to the release of three squadron expansions, then I guess we can put all concerns to rest.

FTFY.

And statistically significant evidence that the meta is just fine prior to the release of all those squadrons is a little more credible than alarmist wildass guesses.

Let's just wait and see, k?

Oh. Well if we have anecdotal statistically-significant evidence prior to the release of three squadron expansions, then I guess we can put all concerns to rest.

FTFY.

And statistically significant evidence that the meta is just fine prior to the release of all those squadrons is a little more credible than alarmist wildass guesses.

Let's just wait and see, k?

Oh yea? Significant at what p value, exactly?

I think one interesting thing with all this new stuff is there are more solutions to extreme builds. All A-Wings are now capable of being hard countered with Snipe (or all Interceptors), all bombers will be easier to deal with with more options to attack the,, Rebels got some new aces with scatter, and a cheap squadron, Imps got some new aces that change things up as well and a side-shooting TRC boat. Flotillas are easier to deal with for Imperials mini-Home One squadron, and the rebels have a solid, cheap carrier that can pull of some wheelie tricks. It does seem that the meta is as wide open as ever, thanks mostly to the new objectives.

Despite my reservations on the squad front...

I do like where the game is heading post CC/W5. I like the variety, the alternative gameplay, and the new options especially on the Imperial side of the fence.

I hope CC draws players in. Even if it's not tournament play, I'd like to see some life locally in the game. Otherwise I'm convinced the local scene is never destined to grow.

I completely agree. I'm taking the initiative here locally after the first of the year, all I can offer is advice to do the same.

I can't!!!! I don't know how..... I try and fail! I need all the pointz!!!

Impressions of wave 5 so far from 2 games yesterday:

• Jerrjerrod and VSDs are absolutely legit. It's like a completely different ship. Try it, you'll love it.
• Arquitens are a really new thing for Imperials and those side arc broadsides from downtown are impressive. I ran them in two different configurations, both of which were very good.
  • Needa (so 2 Evades)+TRCs+Blast Doors w/Jerrjerrod
  • Intel Officer+Enhanced Armament+Blast Doors w/Vader
• TIE Defenders are respectable. I need some more playtime with them. Marek Steele is quite good, especially when he's working double duty as a fighter and a bomber.
• Whisper (TIE Phantom ace) is also quite good and difficult to pin down. I need to try regular TIE Phantoms, but Cloak shows promise.
• Relay 2 on the Lambdas is helpful. Relaying Gozanti squadron commands through it is efficient. Colonel Jendon double-tapping Marek is mean.
• Minister Tua+ECMs on a VSD is also very effective for keeping a VSD in the fight much longer for a minimal additional cost. Brace getting locked down is a frequent problem for VSDs and usually a good reason not to invest in too many upgrades on them (just to keep their durability for the points ratio favorable).
• Peltas seem to require a steady stream of tokens to remain effective. Without some means of providing those (Raymus, Comms Net, Garm, etc.) it's okay but not great.
• Z95s are funny but those red dice are very unreliable. They seem to be pretty reliant on Swarm/Blount to be reliable and they're miserable against ships. They like having bigger friends to hide behind.
• Snipe is useful and was used to pick off Mauler Mithel before he got to mauling (or Mitheling?). I'm not sure it's going to have a huge effect on the squadron mini-game but it's nice to have for sure.
• It would be nice to have an FAQ on how exactly Rapid Launch Bays work (there's two competing schools of thought, as most of you likely know by now).
• New objectives are fun. Wrapping my head around all the new everything is going to take some time.

There's still a LOT more playtesting that needs to happen before I feel even close to a settled opinion but so far it's all very exciting.

Oh. Well if we have anecdotal statistically-significant evidence prior to the release of three squadron expansions, then I guess we can put all concerns to rest.

FTFY.

And statistically significant evidence that the meta is just fine prior to the release of all those squadrons is a little more credible than alarmist wildass guesses.

Let's just wait and see, k?

Oh yea? Significant at what p value, exactly?

I don't have a calculator handy, but as Shmitty has captured a sample that is just about as large as the population of regional competitions, I'd say it's probably pretty good.

It's ok. I'll wait.