The player failed a check to craft an item. He got 4 advantages though, so he used it for 4 PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT and added 4 blues to his next check.

Can you spend advantages of this type on a failed crafting check?

I... think... so... (I say that without the book in front of me.) If I had a player do that I would allow him to get a boost die then an upgraded die for the next time he tried it. But that's me.

Yes, because even though the project was wiffed it doesn't mean that the player can't have learnt anything from it. Sure he broke this one, but next time he knows not to use those parts in order.

In addition I would allow a sciamtic to be made; clearly the character is keeping some form of notes that would make future checks to craft this particular item easier.

It's worth noting that crafting uses up a number of hours specified, so often a character wouldn't be able to make too many checks on a long journey so it's really a consolation prize for failing.

A schematic of a failure? A schematic of what? You didn't successfully make anything.

It was an easy check to make a simple staff. I added a setback too.

If nothing else, using the standard advantage/triumph table, the player could give themselves an upgrade on the next attempt.

The crafting check did fail. I would cap the number of times he can take the practice makes purpose. There are plenty of other ways to work this out; recover a small percentage of the crafting cost, allow one of those Advantages to carry to the next attempt (failed to craft the item but most of the material is still usable and some of the job is already done well), etc.

There is plenty of things you can do with this kind of situation.

There is also one that reduces the difficulty for 3 adv (I think), but I am not sure if that can reduce the difficulty to simple

A schematic of a failure? A schematic of what? You didn't successfully make anything.

A plan to make another attempt to craft said weapon/armour/gadget that isn't a failure. As I said before, a detailed number of notes and ideas that can be incorperated into the next design, a streamlined process, using niche materials e.g. Those kind of observations that can only be made once a prototype has been designed; one can sometimes learn much more from a failed project more then anything.

Yah people can do whatever they like at their table but given the rules talk about rolling the crafting check and on a successful check there are options for modifying the item in the tables it seems to me a success is required. The one shot next check options Practice Makes Perfect and Lessons Learned, specifically call out use on the next skill check, whereas schematic talks about creating items for the template you used forever at less difficulty but there's no qualifying statement attached, so assuming it can be used on a failure is just that. I have a common sense problem with letting a PC reduce the difficulty of all checks going forward forever on an item with a failed roll, never mind RAW/RAI.

You're giving a narrative description of Lessons Learned and Practice Makes Perfect.

Then that is one interpretation of it but then both of those applications of improving the next check cost significantly less then the sciamatic. That and all items are assumed to use their standard templates until the item is produced and extra touches are only added afterwards. I would have to glance at them again; I've had alcohol and working on a report thus I'm not in the best frame of mind to check that.

That being said, I recall as with every table in this game (combat, crafting, social checks) that the perks offered there are only really suggestions. Just as well really, I found the lightsaber construction tab in Endless Vigal fairly disappointing.

A schematic of a failure? A schematic of what? You didn't successfully make anything.

I can think of several inventions that were the byproduct of failure. Penicillin and X-Rays, anyone?

So yeah, I can see someone getting some benefits from dud crafting rolls. They slap their forehead as they stand in front of their smoking circut board and droid body, realizing that they had the wrong plans or something. Seems reasonable to me.

Sure, but not a blueprint for manufacturing what you just failed to create for less difficulty forever...

Everyone understands a schematic lets the PC roll one less Difficulty on that template they are creating by one, permanently, correct? So every single energy pistol they will make going forward will be one Difficulty less, forever, from a failed roll...again, people can do as they like at their table but for my money...

To be honest I don't really see what the problem is aside from wording. My table adopts the policy of one craft between missions and to be honest our squad (being a rebellion unit) is so active that it's a pretty optimistically expectation. Now, unless this player spends a ton of time just rolling crafting checks (in which case, I would them that there are plenty of ways of expressing their talents, then building a bunch of broken blasters) I don't see the problem, I mean, how many blaster pistols/rifles/whatever does someone actually need? It would be cool to see players actually crafting something to have as a bit of a side job/commission occupation instead of the standard smuggler/murder hobo combo.

On my table it's probably the only crafting take the character would probably make the entire session hence the scimatic consolation price is fine. Different table. different policies really.

I can think of several inventions that were the byproduct of failure. Penicillin and X-Rays, anyone?

So yeah, I can see someone getting some benefits from dud crafting rolls. They slap their forehead as they stand in front of their smoking circut board and droid body, realizing that they had the wrong plans or something. Seems reasonable to me.

My whole life is a series of 'It Seemed A Good Idea At The Time' strung together

I've got no Problem with the lesson learned Boost works several times on an brohen item (since it comes with cost in time and credits)

The Shematic however can be choosen one time and one time only at my table. That way it will be never more easy to build a heavyblaster rifle than to build a normal handblaster. Otherwise my sage and my mechanic would do this each sessions:

Sage: "I use Usefull facts to give the Mechanic a usefull hint how blaster rifle were designed by the culture of the Ithorians"

Mechanican: "I use the triumph granted by the usefull facts of the sage to create a template for the third time! One more and it will be trivial!"

as the friendly neightborhood Pirate already stated:

EHHH...NO!

I'm inline with 2P51's thinking.

However, a player might be able to make a case that from a failed role, the dice suggest that a certain component of the build was exceptionally well done and that a schematic could be produced of that component. This would be a table to table rule change, of course, but I might allow a component schematic that would permanently allow a boost die to subsequent craft attempts because at least one part of the item is already well established.

But changing the difficulty on future rolls because of a failure is not something I would allow.

I am assuming that Sciamtics only ever applies once to a particular catagory range, and that to actually get any further reduction would require an assembly line. I assume most scum don't have the faculties to mass produce it to that consistency and AOR to be funneling it into the allience itself if they had that level of resources. Or alternatively if they were that successfu, why are they risking life and limb on the rim?


Needless to say, being the main mechanic of my party, I don't believe that I am gaming my GM. Our squad is an elite unit and as such we have very little time to dedicate toward crafting.

A schematic of a failure? A schematic of what? You didn't successfully make anything.

You may have successfully debugged your original design, however. If you know what went wrong, then you can fix your original drawings.