Here are the numbers for lone fighters, w/ swarm and w/ swarm + their "leader".

Z95s are definitely spikey in their damage output, but it seems that their have a greater chance to one shot a TIE in the first two cases than a TIE has to one-shot the Z95.

If Howlrunner is around, the TIE has a greater chance to one-shot the Z95.

Oh wow, three red is actually alot better.

Actually, I may have messed up the Z95 + Blount numbers, and they may be better. I assumed the "in addition" in Blount's ability would mean you could reroll two separate dice, but not the same die twice. Any opinions on this?

I didn't even look at those. I just looked at the 3+ damage numbers and just assumed that the average damage on three reds is higher than three blues.

Really that's all I'm looking at: how the Z95 appears to out-class the Tie Fighter in everything but speed.

Yeah, but the big kicker is the fact that a Quarter of the time you shoot with a Z-95, you'll do no damage.

I'm not sure if going 1v1 actually works well in this fight. How about we look at how these two are used or will be used in fleet lists or various combinations with other figures? Besides Howlrunner and the shift of a TIE squadron into more of a squadron interceptor.

As a side note, I really like adding 3 Z95s as a really cheap general purpose squadron.

Here are the corrected numbers for the Blount case. Improved for the Z95, but the TIE fighter still has a better chance to 1-shot. (This is all assuming the Z95 doesn't reroll on single hits). Of course this is all just simple theory. The actual gamestate will be a much more complicated situation than a simple 1v1.

I will be really curious, however, to hear of the first case of a Z95 one-shotting a full health Defender.

Here are the numbers for lone fighters, w/ swarm and w/ swarm + their "leader".

Z95s are definitely spikey in their damage output, but it seems that their have a greater chance to one shot a TIE in the first two cases than a TIE has to one-shot the Z95.

If Howlrunner is around, the TIE has a greater chance to one-shot the Z95.

Oh wow, three red is actually alot better.

Actually, I may have messed up the Z95 + Blount numbers, and they may be better. I assumed the "in addition" in Blount's ability would mean you could reroll two separate dice, but not the same die twice. Any opinions on this?

I didn't even look at those. I just looked at the 3+ damage numbers and just assumed that the average damage on three reds is higher than three blues.

Really that's all I'm looking at: how the Z95 appears to out-class the Tie Fighter in everything but speed.

But this isnt the case. On avarage both do the exact same amount of damage unmodified. The TIEs just have a higher chance for Accuracy and are faster.

Here are the numbers for lone fighters, w/ swarm and w/ swarm + their "leader".

Z95s are definitely spikey in their damage output, but it seems that their have a greater chance to one shot a TIE in the first two cases than a TIE has to one-shot the Z95.

If Howlrunner is around, the TIE has a greater chance to one-shot the Z95.

Oh wow, three red is actually alot better.

Actually, I may have messed up the Z95 + Blount numbers, and they may be better. I assumed the "in addition" in Blount's ability would mean you could reroll two separate dice, but not the same die twice. Any opinions on this?

I didn't even look at those. I just looked at the 3+ damage numbers and just assumed that the average damage on three reds is higher than three blues.

Really that's all I'm looking at: how the Z95 appears to out-class the Tie Fighter in everything but speed.

Yeah, but the big kicker is the fact that a Quarter of the time you shoot with a Z-95, you'll do no damage.

Ah but that means 75% of the time they will hit! And I'll have about 2x of them as I would other Squadrons.

Though for you, 96% of the time you'll do no damage.

I don't like how they are cheaper than our fodder..I mean Tie-fighters. They should probably be the same cost or not have swarm.

Headhunter doesn't really have 'decent'ship battery. It has every weakness that a Tie does with less speed and a worse battery. Ties are better. Surely the average Tie anti squadron in genric vs genric is slight superior. I never look for max just the average.

I am not sure how you are saying that the TiE has a better battery? Yes it will hit slightly more often with 4 of 8 sides being a hit, compared to the 3 of 8 being a hit, but on the red one of those is a double hit. With only a one in eight of getting the double hit, it may not happen lots, but when it does it will have much more impact. So when I look at it that means it has a better battery to me at least. And the same for the anti squadron just now with more dice and a posable re-roll you can get from zero to six hits, with the blue dice you end up between zero and three.

Here are the corrected numbers for the Blount case. Improved for the Z95, but the TIE fighter still has a better chance to 1-shot. (This is all assuming the Z95 doesn't reroll on single hits). Of course this is all just simple theory. The actual gamestate will be a much more complicated situation than a simple 1v1.

I will be really curious, however, to hear of the first case of a Z95 one-shotting a full health Defender.

Just the fact that it has the possability to one shot any Empire squadron except for the YV-666 and the Decimator, and with Flight Controller it can one shot the YB-666, to me at least would make it a better fighter even if it cost slightly more. The fact that it is cheaper is salt in the wound to me, the loss of one speed is at least to me a non-issue.

When I compare this to the Empire shooting the Rebels I can not find any unit that has the possability to do this. The TiE Interceptor is the only one that I can find that can get to the six damage against squadrons and to do it, it needs both Flight Controller and Howlrunner and then it can only do a max of six, against ships it is limited to a maxim of one point, and costs four more points than the Z95 (not counting the sixteen more for Howlrunner, and six points for Flight Controller just to match). To do the two points of damage to a ship, and still have at lest some anti-squadron value (taking the TiE bomber out), you are looking at with out bomber the TiE Phantom with a max of four anti-squadron, and two anti-ship damage. When you look at bombers you are looking at the Firespray with a max of three anti-squadron, and two anti-ship damage. Both of these options cost a fair amount more, and lots of the Rebels have more hull as well.

One thing is sure for me, what ever the ''chance'' that you will have with those red dices, for the price, I will try them in a pack of three

Here are the numbers for lone fighters, w/ swarm and w/ swarm + their "leader".

Z95s are definitely spikey in their damage output, but it seems that their have a greater chance to one shot a TIE in the first two cases than a TIE has to one-shot the Z95.

If Howlrunner is around, the TIE has a greater chance to one-shot the Z95.

Oh wow, three red is actually alot better.

I wonder how you came to that conclusion by looking at the chart - as I had the exact opposite feeling before seeing the numbers and thought Z-95s to be unreliable yet superior in a shoot-out, yet the numbers convinced me otherwise.

Being able to dish out 5-6 damage in super rare occasions does not help if you are fighting 3 HP squadrons, but the chance to score nothing is more than doubled for Z-95s. TIEs hand out 2-3 damage quite reliably (assuming you manage to get 'swarm' to work with a, well, TIE swarm...) so my bet goes with the imperials here.

Rebels favour chance

Screed, sorry imperials, favour reliability.

Here are the numbers for lone fighters, w/ swarm and w/ swarm + their "leader".

Z95s are definitely spikey in their damage output, but it seems that their have a greater chance to one shot a TIE in the first two cases than a TIE has to one-shot the Z95.

If Howlrunner is around, the TIE has a greater chance to one-shot the Z95.

Oh wow, three red is actually alot better.

Actually, I may have messed up the Z95 + Blount numbers, and they may be better. I assumed the "in addition" in Blount's ability would mean you could reroll two separate dice, but not the same die twice. Any opinions on this?

I didn't even look at those. I just looked at the 3+ damage numbers and just assumed that the average damage on three reds is higher than three blues.

Really that's all I'm looking at: how the Z95 appears to out-class the Tie Fighter in everything but speed.

But this isnt the case. On avarage both do the exact same amount of damage unmodified. The TIEs just have a higher chance for Accuracy and are faster.

I'm not certain who wins here, as no side has access to both options.

Agreed with a few above. Swarm has no place in a Rebels squadron.

Rebel pilots are not numerous or expendable.

Agreed with a few above. Swarm has no place in a Rebels squadron.

Rebel pilots are not numerous or expendable.

I wonder if this is how people reacted to z-95s in x-wing.

Rebel pilots are not numerous or expendable.

I give you the First.

But not the Second.

Re: Phoenix Squadron.

Didn't say they were immortal.

The rebels need to keep every pilot possible. Each loss is difficult to replace. Phoenix Squadron is a great example of how rebel pilots aren't expendable.

After losses, the entire unit was on the verge of being non-operational. Hence the Antilles Extraction to try and save the unit.

The empire loses hundreds of TIE fighters and doesn't even blink. Their pilots are as expendable as chaff.

I see it more of a demonstration as to why they are expendable... But probably shouldn't be, when it comes to the Rebels

Swarm in this game is more about teamwork than being expendable.

Agreed with a few above. Swarm has no place in a Rebels squadron.

Rebel pilots are not numerous or expendable.

I wonder if this is how people reacted to z-95s in x-wing.

Thing is Z-95s were the same price as a TIE Fighter not cheaper. In X-wing the dial and upgrade slot(s) made them more of a filler ship than a swarm ship. So although they were priced the same and had the same firepower for me the Z-95 felt differently enough from the TIE Fighter that I couldn't call it the Rebel TIE (Ironically two years down the road the Rebels do get a TIE Fighter ).

As for Z-95 being a point cheaper that means you can cram in 19 Z-95 squadrons compared to 16 TIE Fighter squadrons. That's if swarming is a build strategy you are going for. Because of the activation move or shoot unless squadroned/rouge I don't find the speed that compelling in a dog fight for Armada. The dice and rerolls are more important and with swarm I think the Z-95s will be hitting those coveted doubles more often than the consistency of the TIEs. TIE won't stand a chance if they are outnumbered.

We're about to see a huge shift in the meta where those ever-present top-tier 16 TIE Fighter squadron Imperial fleets are about to get replaced by the new hotness, 19 Z95 squadron Rebel fleets!

Don't believe me? Just look at this thread.

...

The real winner in this matchup are the 2 ordinance Raiders that level both screens.

Swarm in this game is more about teamwork than being expendable.

I was about to say, we need to not lose sight of the fact that Swarm is just a keyword. They could have gone for "Wingman" I guess, or something similar. But in reality, this is more about squadrons working better in larger formations than on their own.

The way I see it, there is no point in comparing the two in a vacuum.

Each faction offers diverse fighters that result in completely different types of synergies.

There will be Headhunters protected by X-wings and Jan, and there will be Tie Fighters buffed by Dengar and Howlrunner.

Comparing the two is perfectly reasonable.

They are both dirt cheap fighters which throw 3 dice and have Swarm.

Hard to get much more comparable than that.

I think it's worth noting that Z-95s seem designed to have synergy with several other squadron types, while TIE Fighters are designed to have synergy primarily with other TIE Fighters.