Does anyone have experience with this type of Poe loadout?
Poe Dameron (PS9)
Black One
PTL
R2 Astromech - All 1 & 2 Speed Greens
Sensor Array - Spend Focus for Blank -> Evade
Vectored Thrusters - Add BR action
I imagine survivability is not great, I imagine pairing him with Han or Dash.
I would say that if you have the extra point and want to make Poe more arc-dodgy, go with BB-8 rather than the R2 astro. You will no longer need Vector Thrusters and can keep Autothrusters, and can still have the Sensor Cluster because you won't benefit as much from Pattern Analyzer.
He will not have as many greens, but the different places you can make him end up in are pretty vast with the BB-8 Barrel roll/PTL/Boost combo.
I would say that if you have the extra point and want to make Poe more arc-dodgy, go with BB-8 rather than the R2 astro. You will no longer need Vector Thrusters and can keep Autothrusters, and can still have the Sensor Cluster because you won't benefit as much from Pattern Analyzer.
He will not have as many greens, but the different places you can make him end up in are pretty vast with the BB-8 Barrel roll/PTL/Boost combo.
I have been tossing that around. I definitely need to get them both on the table, and get a feel for which fits my play style and the squad I squeeze him in.
On paper I think losing the two hard greens (BB-8 build) makes him less Ace-y. The green hard-turn seems to be one of the keys in having a ship that can consistently dodge and/or maintain arc. Even with BB-8 shenanigans, you would have to use a bank and a boost to change your orientation 90°. R2 Astromech lets you do that without requiring the action.
Pattern analyzer is amazing on a T-70 with R2 and PTL, trust me.
BB-8 and PTL. Dial a green; BR into PTL for second action and stress. Do green move. Clear stress, take third action. Sure, one of those actions is always a BR but you can end up with both a focus and TL (or a boost if needed) and no stress. :-)
Pattern analyzer is amazing on a T-70 with R2 and PTL, trust me.
I have been away from the game since July (grad school + work) and so I am VERY unfamiliar with Pattern Analyzer. I also suck at the mental gymnastics of all the potential interactions and usually need to see the interactions to 'get it'. Do you mind expanding on some particular situations that you find it superior to Weapons Guidance or Sensor Array?
Pattern analyzer is amazing on a T-70 with R2 and PTL, trust me.
I have been away from the game since July (grad school + work) and so I am VERY unfamiliar with Pattern Analyzer. I also suck at the mental gymnastics of all the potential interactions and usually need to see the interactions to 'get it'. Do you mind expanding on some particular situations that you find it superior to Weapons Guidance or Sensor Array?
Pattern Analyzer lets you apply the effect of your maneuver (Green or Red) AFTER you do Actions. This has two benefits:
1. Obvious: Lets you do an Action on a Red manuever
2. Less Obvious: Lets you clear a stress after you do PTL on a Green Maneuver.
So the idea with the likes of Poe (or any T-70 for that matter), is that you would PTL most of the time, but since you use Pattern Analyzer, it would clear your stress on the SAME turn. This opens up your dial, and specifically allows for Trolls or a K-turn, which normally is not possible with a PTL build. In addition, you'll even get 1 Action on those moves, which is nice. The one disadvantage of this is that the turn after you pull a Red, and do a Green, you'll need to decide to A) PTL and take a Stress AFTER the Check Pilot Stress step (this is what normal PTL aces do, but throws you off of what you were doing before, as now you'll have a stress) OR B) only do 1 Action, to essentially 'reset' yourself.
In answer to your second question, no one has really found a use for Weapons Guidance yet (but maybe with Expertise they will????), but Sensor Cluster is a very strong Tech, especially for Poe, as he can change 1 Focus into an Evade, and then change 1 Blank into an Evade with Sensor Cluster. I would recommend taking Sensor Cluster if you have R2-D2, as it really adds to your tankiness.
Really, with Poe and the T-70s, Sensor Cluster and Pattern Analyzer are both very solid, and it depends on your build and what you are aiming for.
Hope that helps!
Edited by SirCormacPretty much the above. Also Poe doesn't often want to spend his focus for weapon guidance. Sensor Cluster has the same problem on him.
Pattern analyzer is amazing on a T-70 with R2 and PTL, trust me.
I have been away from the game since July (grad school + work) and so I am VERY unfamiliar with Pattern Analyzer. I also suck at the mental gymnastics of all the potential interactions and usually need to see the interactions to 'get it'. Do you mind expanding on some particular situations that you find it superior to Weapons Guidance or Sensor Array?
Pattern Analyzer lets you apply the effect of your maneuver (Green or Red) AFTER you do Actions. This has two benefits:
1. Obvious: Lets you do an Action on a Red manuever
2. Less Obvious: Lets you clear a stress after you do PTL on a Green Maneuver.
So the idea with the likes of Poe (or any T-70 for that matter), is that you would PTL most of the time, but since you use Pattern Analyzer, it would clear your stress on the SAME turn. This opens up your dial, and specifically allows for Trolls or a K-turn, which normally is not possible with a PTL build. In addition, you'll even get 1 Action on those moves, which is nice. The one disadvantage of this is that the turn after you pull a Red, and do a Green, you'll need to decide to A) PTL and take a Stress AFTER the Check Pilot Stress step (this is what normal PTL aces do, but throws you off of what you were doing before, as now you'll have a stress) OR B) only do 1 Action, to essentially 'reset' yourself.
In answer to your second question, no one has really found a use for Weapons Guidance yet (but maybe with Expertise they will????), but Sensor Cluster is a very strong Tech, especially for Poe, as he can change 1 Focus into an Evade, and then change 1 Blank into an Evade with Sensor Cluster. I would recommend taking Sensor Cluster if you have R2-D2, as it really adds to your tankiness.
Really, with Poe and the T-70s, Sensor Cluster and Pattern Analyzer are both very solid, and it depends on your build and what you are aiming for.
Hope that helps!
Yes! Thank you! Right now I am sitting on this build:
Ace Poe (42 pts)
PS9 Poe Dameron (33)
Black One (1)
PTL (3)
R2 Astromech (1)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Vectored Thrusters (2)
Explanations:
R2 Astro > BB-8 - I want to be able to have access to the green Hard-2 that can be followed up with Boost or BR for positioning. I am looking to build an Arc-Dodger Poe and having the ability to BR later rather then immediately seems (theoretically) valuable. I am curious about the added defense of Autothrusters with the BB-8 build. Ultimately, in my mind it seems like the BB-8 build can't turn like the R2 build. Maybe someone much smarter then me can prove to me otherwise?
Ultimately, I have to get this on the table (X-Wing night isn't for another week) and get a feel for the different builds before i can feel confident.
As another conversation starter any recommendations beyond the Falcon and YT-2400 for friend(s)? What about a way to feed Poe focus tokens?
Pattern Analyzer lets you apply the effect of your maneuver (Green or Red) AFTER you do Actions. This has two benefits:Pattern analyzer is amazing on a T-70 with R2 and PTL, trust me.
I have been away from the game since July (grad school + work) and so I am VERY unfamiliar with Pattern Analyzer. I also suck at the mental gymnastics of all the potential interactions and usually need to see the interactions to 'get it'. Do you mind expanding on some particular situations that you find it superior to Weapons Guidance or Sensor Array?
1. Obvious: Lets you do an Action on a Red manuever
2. Less Obvious: Lets you clear a stress after you do PTL on a Green Maneuver.
So the idea with the likes of Poe (or any T-70 for that matter), is that you would PTL most of the time, but since you use Pattern Analyzer, it would clear your stress on the SAME turn. This opens up your dial, and specifically allows for Trolls or a K-turn, which normally is not possible with a PTL build. In addition, you'll even get 1 Action on those moves, which is nice. The one disadvantage of this is that the turn after you pull a Red, and do a Green, you'll need to decide to A) PTL and take a Stress AFTER the Check Pilot Stress step (this is what normal PTL aces do, but throws you off of what you were doing before, as now you'll have a stress) OR B) only do 1 Action, to essentially 'reset' yourself.
In answer to your second question, no one has really found a use for Weapons Guidance yet (but maybe with Expertise they will????), but Sensor Cluster is a very strong Tech, especially for Poe, as he can change 1 Focus into an Evade, and then change 1 Blank into an Evade with Sensor Cluster. I would recommend taking Sensor Cluster if you have R2-D2, as it really adds to your tankiness.
Really, with Poe and the T-70s, Sensor Cluster and Pattern Analyzer are both very solid, and it depends on your build and what you are aiming for.
Hope that helps!
Yes! Thank you! Right now I am sitting on this build:
Ace Poe (42 pts)
PS9 Poe Dameron (33)
Black One (1)
PTL (3)
R2 Astromech (1)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Vectored Thrusters (2)
Explanations:
R2 Astro > BB-8 - I want to be able to have access to the green Hard-2 that can be followed up with Boost or BR for positioning. I am looking to build an Arc-Dodger Poe and having the ability to BR later rather then immediately seems (theoretically) valuable. I am curious about the added defense of Autothrusters with the BB-8 build. Ultimately, in my mind it seems like the BB-8 build can't turn like the R2 build. Maybe someone much smarter then me can prove to me otherwise?
Ultimately, I have to get this on the table (X-Wing night isn't for another week) and get a feel for the different builds before i can feel confident.
As another conversation starter any recommendations beyond the Falcon and YT-2400 for friend(s)? What about a way to feed Poe focus tokens?
My first run was Kyle as his wingman, and it was awesome.
Here is a great visualization of what you can do with BB-8 on a T-70.
http://randolphw.github.io/echolocation/?t70xwing&&&0,0,1,1,7&27
And here is what you can do with the same T-70 but with an R2 astromech.
http://randolphw.github.io/echolocation/?t70xwing&&&2,2,3,3,7&11
What you are gaining with BB is the ability to shift to either side rather than be locked in to your original maneuver, but you can end up in a lot more places with the R2 astromech. Overall it really is a personal preference as to which you use, both have their purposes.
Edited by JReimAnother vote for BB-8. I played him yesterday on Wedge with PtL and EU. Yes, you're very restricted to green moves, but not at all predictable.
I was at the edge of the table, at a 45 degree angle, with the corner of the base touching the edge exactly. My opponent tried to guess my move with Cassian Andor. I think he guessed sharp 2, but I revealed a 2 straight. Barrelrolled to the lower rightmost corner, boost one bank, and went parallel to the edge away from his seismic charge, clearing stress. And Wedge could still take a focus.
The barrel roll before the move allows you to go anywhere, but thr real trick is this: you can choose to boost before or after moving. That's very flexible. Wedge had trouble because he was facing turrets (but did survive, somethhing I am somewhat proud of), but Poe can use autothrusters. He's the Rebels' Fel.
The question of whether to use bb8 or r2 really comes down to whether you need autothrusters or.not I think. Bb8 has a very real advantage of helping you avoid blocks, but those 2 hard greens with r2 are awesome as well.
Here is a great visualization of what you can do with BB-8 on a T-70.
http://randolphw.github.io/echolocation/?t70xwing&&&0,0,1,1,7&27
And here is what you can do with the same T-70 but with an R2 astromech.
http://randolphw.github.io/echolocation/?t70xwing&&&2,2,3,3,7&11
What you are gaining with BB is the ability to shift to either side rather than be locked in to your original maneuver, but you can end up in a lot more places with the R2 astromech. Overall it really is a personal preference as to which you use, both have their purposes.
Wow! Thank you! I never knew about that site! Will make future movement mapping MUCH simpler!
The thing that stands out to me is that the BB-8 version (1-Bank) can end up with it's arc anywhere within the 180° front. R2 Astro makes it possible to get the same movement potential as a PTL Interceptor (Minus a green 4-straight) and three green 1-speed maneuvers (R/L bank and straight). Not by much but it opened potential arc-faces to 270°.
The question of whether to use bb8 or r2 really comes down to whether you need autothrusters or.not I think. Bb8 has a very real advantage of helping you avoid blocks, but those 2 hard greens with r2 are awesome as well.
I see your point. My local meta doesn't like turrets very much. I almost got ran out of the store for bringing Dengaroo to a store credit tourney, and my old Falcon/Decimator builds brought about a lot of complaints.
I also feel it is important to note that keeping Vectored thrusters allows you to barrel roll after movement as well, giving the pilot a chance to 'horizontally' dodge arcs. I can't remember where I read it, but it seems like Barrel Roll is much more valuable as a arc-dodging while boost is more valuable to get into range 1.
I am imagining that I would fly this Poe more like Soontir (dodge into range 1 out of arc) then Inquisitor (Dance at range 3). I do worry about his durability though, which is why i initially included sensor cluster, but I think the rest of the squad will need to be built to account for his lack of a third green dice.
Pretty much the above. Also Poe doesn't often want to spend his focus for weapon guidance. Sensor Cluster has the same problem on him.
Not entirely, Poe has high PS so will normally be attacking early in the turn. By the time he is taking fire, he will normally have gotten plenty of use out his Focus token already. In today's 2-3 ship meta, Sensor Cluster is almost as good as R5-P9 but has the advantage of leaving the astromech slot free.
I wonder if VI arc dodge snap could be a thing with his free boost and BB8?
As another conversation starter any recommendations beyond the Falcon and YT-2400 for friend(s)? What about a way to feed Poe focus tokens?
PS9 Poe is fairly decent Ace. Depending on build, he normally costs in the low 40s when fully loaded which gives you plenty of options. Running another Regen ship alongside can make for a fairly tough to kill squad. Miranda Doni and Norra Wexly both cost a similar when fully loaded and can both hit hard and take some punishment in return, Red Ace comes out slightly cheaper and is very tanky although lacks killing power.
For support. Kyle Katarn used to be go-to support ship for Focus-Poecus but the HWK is a pretty underwhelming ship and even with a TLT, I found it struggled to pull its weight.
Fortunately Rebels have 2 fantastic new support ships in the shape of the U-Wing and the captured Tie fighter. A U-wing with Jynn Erso can help keep Poe fed with tokens. With 3 Red, 2 greens and 8 health, it is a bit more durable than the HWK and punches much harder. The Captured Tie is even cheaper and is a great little ship. Take Ahsoka Tano with veteran Instincts, Captured Tie, Sabine's Masterpiece and you have a ship that invisible to enemies with PS8 and below that can give a nearby friendly a free action at the start of the combat phase. If you want to be sure of gicing Poe a Focus, even when he is stressed, Jynn Erso can ride along or you can put Sabine and some Cluster Mines aboard for an invisible mine-layer.
The greatest thing about the captured Tie is that it is cheap and flexible. You can make a decent support ship for ~20 points which still leaves you enough for some serious muscle in your squads. If you want to go really cheap, Captain Rex can lay down some supressive fire for only 14 points which makes him almost a mini-Biggs and he can still give Jynn a ride.
Pretty much the above. Also Poe doesn't often want to spend his focus for weapon guidance. Sensor Cluster has the same problem on him.
Not entirely, Poe has high PS so will normally be attacking early in the turn. By the time he is taking fire, he will normally have gotten plenty of use out his Focus token already. In today's 2-3 ship meta, Sensor Cluster is almost as good as R5-P9 but has the advantage of leaving the astromech slot free.
I concur. Part of what started this line of thought was wondering if with the new toys/tech available if R2 Astro would be enough to make Poe a viable arc-dodger.
FYI, I through together a potential squad list here for critique: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/237244-poe-jake-and-the-focus-sisters/
Karhedron, this list implements some of the same ideas you mentioned. Paired Ace is Jake w/ Jyn and Jan Ors on a U-Boat for support.
Hi Folks,
Thank you for this thread. I don't get to play anywhere near as much as I'd like and like the OP I struggle with some of the interactions and timings. Could we just clear up the following for me so that I am doing things right.
If I have
:- POE (PS9) with, Black One Title, BB8, PTL and Autothrusters.
When it is Poe's turn to activate, I could, in order,
1. turnover a green 2 straight (reveal manoeuvre)
2. Perform a barrel roll (BB8)
3. Remove an enemy Target Lock from Poe or another friendly at range 1 (Black one Title)
4. Perform a boost earning a stress (PTL)
5. Actually do the green 2 straight, clearing the stress (manoeuvre)
6. Perform my action e.g. focus.
If the above is correct then:-
If I have
Sensor cluster - and Poe rolls a focus/blank on green die, he could turn them into two evades - the focus due to his pilot talent and the blank due to the sensor cluster (which also spends the focus token)?
If I have
Pattern Analyser - it would allow Poe to K-turn, then perform an action. Can I then PTL after that action and do I then get 2 stress tokens?
Sorry I have to have it spelt out like this but I would very much like to make sure I'm playing it right.
Many thanks for your help
Hi Folks,
Thank you for this thread. I don't get to play anywhere near as much as I'd like and like the OP I struggle with some of the interactions and timings. Could we just clear up the following for me so that I am doing things right.
If I have
:- POE (PS9) with, Black One Title, BB8, PTL and Autothrusters.
When it is Poe's turn to activate, I could, in order,
1. turnover a green 2 straight (reveal manoeuvre)
2. Perform a barrel roll (BB8)
3. Remove an enemy Target Lock from Poe or another friendly at range 1 (Black one Title)
4. Perform a boost earning a stress (PTL)
5. Actually do the green 2 straight, clearing the stress (manoeuvre)
6. Perform my action e.g. focus.
If the above is correct then:-
If I have
Sensor cluster - and Poe rolls a focus/blank on green die, he could turn them into two evades - the focus due to his pilot talent and the blank due to the sensor cluster (which also spends the focus token)?
If I have
Pattern Analyser - it would allow Poe to K-turn, then perform an action. Can I then PTL after that action and do I then get 2 stress tokens?
Sorry I have to have it spelt out like this but I would very much like to make sure I'm playing it right.
Many thanks for your help
You've got everything correct as far as I see.
Furthermore if at any time in Poe's activation you also perform a Boost action (in addition to Barrel Roll from BB-8) you can activate the Black One Title a second time.
Correct on all three.
SWEEEEEET!
Many thanks for the help folks
I really like that ace build on Poe, but I have most experience with BB-8. The triple action, no TL on poe is just sooo good.
As Jreim perfectly showed, the R2 astromech has a wider range of possibilities in maneuvers, but the BB-8 variant has a better opportunity to react to your opponent.
Your opponent will keep guessing and guessing where you end up, and with boost/BR before maneuvering he is a slippery bastard. I do not know how long he will survive without autothrusters though. TLT will eat him alive before he gets into range..
TLTs are the last refuge of a scoundrel. That said, I'm thinking about using those 2 points and mod slot normally reserved for autothrusters and put them towards vectored thrusters. I think the barrel roll in all other circumstances (not TLTs) could be more useful.
I really like that ace build on Poe, but I have most experience with BB-8. The triple action, no TL on poe is just sooo good.
As Jreim perfectly showed, the R2 astromech has a wider range of possibilities in maneuvers, but the BB-8 variant has a better opportunity to react to your opponent.
Your opponent will keep guessing and guessing where you end up, and with boost/BR before maneuvering he is a slippery bastard. I do not know how long he will survive without autothrusters though. TLT will eat him alive before he gets into range..
TLTs are the last refuge of a scoundrel. That said, I'm thinking about using those 2 points and mod slot normally reserved for autothrusters and put them towards vectored thrusters. I think the barrel roll in all other circumstances (not TLTs) could be more useful.
My bias is that I am playing in a local meta where everyone HATES turrets and think they never should have been made. Part of why I feel comfortable going sans-AT is because of the local hate against turrets. If I end up taking this to regionals, then I will have to be more on my game. I quit playing my Dengaroo build in order to keep the peace at local game nights. Last tournament every serious player came with lists and the stated goal of simply defeating my Dengaroo because 'screw turrets'.