I liked the movie, but it had more weakspots that I had imagined.

Here are my quick pro & contra:

PRO

- The chracters are written well and played very well.

- Strong, liekable main character
- strong female main character

- very nice design

- good settings
- a good plot

- much action and some fine fighting scenes
- VADER massacre

- Y-Wings see some action

- Actually hurting rebel losses

- Mon Calamari Admiral

- TIE-Striker look and feel nice, and make sense.

- typical Star Wars: dangerously mechanical decives: This time a airlock meant to chopp down maintaince workers

CONTRA
- very few females.In the whole movie, from perhaps 80-100 people we see and hear, around 5 are female (Mon Montha, jyn Erso, Rebellion Counil member, two pilots), in the "volunteer" squad there are 16 human males, 1 alien (we see a second later), 1 droid, no human female

- very few aliens, even in the Rebellion
- where did the Bothans die again?
- silly, silly US helmets on the rebell commandos
- silly vietnam MG from flyer scene
- the Imperium is unable to act for 3 turns each time. Fighters are launched ridiculous late all the time.
- fighting shenanigans:
--Hammerhead pushing two ISD into each other, total destroying them both
--Every blaster is stormtrooper homing. Each shot kills one.
--Dead stormtroopers are just hitting the floor like rain

--Stormtrooper armour is worth nothing. Even against sticks. However a rebel jacket absorbs most of a blaster shot.
-nearly 100% loosses on imperial side (in the beginning of the raid against the archive) against the Rebel kommandos, even when it becomes a open firefight, however as soon as the plot armpour wears off, the kommandos are just slaughtered. First we saw ONLY dead Imperials, and then we see each rebel commando die, nothing can save them.
- Vaders costume looked strange in details

- plotholes: Why could the Tantine IV escape? the whole start of Episode IV hardly makes sense anymore.
- Leia scene
- one time even a shuttle has a huge backwash, but a ISD has not. The first use of the death star doesnt create a blast wave...
- the Mon Cal Cruiser doesnt look like other Mon Cal designs

The Bothans haven't died yet...they die stealing the Death Star II plans...

What? That blast wave was so huge it tossed big chunks of the planet into orbit...

Could you elaborate a bit on your first contra point? Why exactly is it bothering you personally, or why did it hamper the enjoyment in any way?

On the overal poorly depicted performance of imperial military - please remember that this actually is rebel propaganda at its finest, and on top of that its Disney.

I'll address the cons, as I agree with your Pros!

CONTRA
- very few females.In the whole movie, from perhaps 80-100 people we see and hear, around 5 are female (Mon Montha, jyn Erso, Rebellion Counil member, two pilots), in the "volunteer" squad there are 16 human males, 1 alien (we see a second later), 1 droid, no human female

- very few aliens, even in the Rebellion
- where did the Bothans die again?
- silly, silly US helmets on the rebell commandos
- silly vietnam MG from flyer scene
- the Imperium is unable to act for 3 turns each time. Fighters are launched ridiculous late all the time.
- fighting shenanigans:
--Hammerhead pushing two ISD into each other, total destroying them both
--Every blaster is stormtrooper homing. Each shot kills one.
--Dead stormtroopers are just hitting the floor like rain

--Stormtrooper armour is worth nothing. Even against sticks. However a rebel jacket absorbs most of a blaster shot.
-nearly 100% loosses on imperial side (in the beginning of the raid against the archive) against the Rebel kommandos, even when it becomes a open firefight, however as soon as the plot armpour wears off, the kommandos are just slaughtered. First we saw ONLY dead Imperials, and then we see each rebel commando die, nothing can save them.
- Vaders costume looked strange in details

- plotholes: Why could the Tantine IV escape? the whole start of Episode IV hardly makes sense anymore.
- Leia scene
- one time even a shuttle has a huge backwash, but a ISD has not. The first use of the death star doesnt create a blast wave...
- the Mon Cal Cruiser doesnt look like other Mon Cal designs

-maybe, who says more of the random aliens aren't female evening out the numbers?

-Look at the show rebels, there aren't many in that cell aside from Hera and Zeb.

-the Bothans dies for the Death Star II plans. Wrong Death Star

-I liked the helmets, it hearkens back to the original trilogy with all the guns being WWII surplus chopped up.

-Dont really see that as silly, they just focused fire on a natural and obvious weak joint. As for using the U-Wing as a gunship... it is one...

-I agree here, the Star Destroyers were doing nothing

-It should have been a Nebulon B that did the pushing! Kinda silly that it was a small corvette.

-Stormtrooper armor IS crap...

-Stormtrooper armor IS crap... In rebels rex even says that he cant hit anything because the new helmets suck!

-Did you SEE RotJ? The most elite Stormtrooper legion got swamped by TEDDY BEARS armed with get this... ROCKS... ON STICKS!

-These are the Seals/SAS of the Rebellion, they eventually got swamped by numbers, and they were falling earlier, before the plot armor wore off.

-I didnt really notice this.

-Because it was hidden and jumped moments after emerging!

-what do most of these have to do with one another? perhaps in atmosphere the engines act different?

-I thought it looked just like a Mon Cal design, it just didn't look like a modified cruise liner with after the fact gun pods mounted all over. As though this was an ACTUAL Mon Cal military vessel.

- Vaders costume looked strange in details

The red eye lenses and inner cape detail are directly referencing the original A New Hope version of Vader's costume. The ISD-I's look different in details as well because they reference the original ANH models that were phased out when they built a more detailed model for Empire Strikes Back. There are so many call-outs to A New Hope's way of things that it makes me smile broadly as a fan to see them pay attention to.

They could have phoned it in and dropped a bog standard ISD-II model and just re-used Vader's costume from Revenge of the Sith. But they didn't, they went to lengths to make sure the movie would match a New Hope.

And the cruiser? The Profundity is a MC75 series cruiser according to the support books for the movie. It's driven by the Mon calamari and has a mon calamari bridge... I don't know what else to tell you.

As for the hammer head, there is this thing called inertia, and it really does work in space. The tug actually had to work up to it. Also they are massive ships but they aren't in gravity. So some real physics there, which is very odd for a star wars movie where space has atmosphere.

How did the Devastator track down the Tantive 4 exactly? Maybe they were able to track it because it was at the battle and followed it in hyperspace. Also explains why Vader knew they had the plans and were worried about transmission being made. It seems awkward at first but does make sense.

Most movies lack women, this one did better that most actually.

Storm troopers sucking after they stopped using the clones is well documented. You do know the "armor" is actually just cheap plastic, right?

The Mon Cal Cruiser was the cheapy version. The Rebellion wasn't well supported until after their huge victory over the death star. It should look ghetto compared to the premium Mon Cal cruisers. This was well done in the movie.

The first use of the death star doesnt create a blast wave...

What? That blast wave was so huge it tossed big chunks of the planet into orbit...

Yet you could fly direct in front of the rocks without turbulences (or the U-Wing has super powerful engines)

- Vaders costume looked strange in details

The red eye lenses and inner cape detail are directly referencing the original A New Hope version of Vader's costume. The ISD-I's look different in details as well because they reference the original ANH models that were phased out when they built a more detailed model for Empire Strikes Back. There are so many call-outs to A New Hope's way of things that it makes me smile broadly as a fan to see them pay attention to.

They could have phoned it in and dropped a bog standard ISD-II model and just re-used Vader's costume from Revenge of the Sith. But they didn't, they went to lengths to make sure the movie would match a New Hope.

And the cruiser? The Profundity is a MC75 series cruiser according to the support books for the movie. It's driven by the Mon calamari and has a mon calamari bridge... I don't know what else to tell you.

Not it was mostly minor details like the neck/throat part. It just looked as if it would fit. And the chest console also looked strange.

As for the hammer head, there is this thing called inertia, and it really does work in space. The tug actually had to work up to it. Also they are massive ships but they aren't in gravity. So some real physics there, which is very odd for a star wars movie where space has atmosphere.

How did the Devastator track down the Tantive 4 exactly? Maybe they were able to track it because it was at the battle and followed it in hyperspace. Also explains why Vader knew they had the plans and were worried about transmission being made. It seems awkward at first but does make sense.

Most movies lack women, this one did better that most actually.

Storm troopers sucking after they stopped using the clones is well documented. You do know the "armor" is actually just cheap plastic, right?

The Mon Cal Cruiser was the cheapy version. The Rebellion wasn't well supported until after their huge victory over the death star. It should look ghetto compared to the premium Mon Cal cruisers. This was well done in the movie.

But the ISD should have inertia left, as it was flying before. And how again did the "tug" bring the ISD to a speed, that both ISDs sliced themselves apart?

The Armour is armour not cheap plastic:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_armor

And stormtroopers were not as good as clones, but still good (remeber what Kenobi said about them).

Better than most that do bad is not good enough.

CONTRA

------- removed most of this to save space

Same thing happened after Episode 7... many complaints were due to people not paying attention... or simply missing important details.

• Fighters launched late? You DO know this was a complete surprise right? Ever heard of Pearl Harbor? it takes time for pilots to wake up and get dressed.
• Hammerhead pushing Star Destroyer - They had just ion'ed the heck out of it and disabled it. It's not like the hammerhead overpowered an ISD - it was simply pushing dead weight at that point, much like a stalled car, put into neutral and you push it off the road. If you get it going fast enough and then hit ANOTHER car with it... it's gonna do some damage. This was actually my favorite part of the movie.

As for other stuff.... most Star Wars battles are based off real life events, real wars. This was obviously meant to emulate Vietnam.

My only real problems with the movie are minor gripes, because the film as a whole was AMAZING. BUt here are the minor gripes:

• Some characters lacked depth. Honestly it's not a full series, it's only a standalone movie, so I understand. But I would have like for Bohdi Rook to have a deeper character. "Why did he feel so guilty that he needed to betray the Empire?" "How does a Cargo Pilot end up doing something so bad that he has a crisis of conscience?" And even Jyn Urso, come to think about it. You never get a good enough grasp of who she is outside of this mission. What exactly would she have gone back to if they had simply let her go free after her meeting with Saw? One one hand it makes you think she's a rebel, and a freedom fighter... but at the same time she also acts like she wants nothing to do with all of this.... So I really feel like she was DESTINED to die on this mission, because she had absolutely no life to go back to. They didn't have time to really delve into it... and I understand why, but it might have better to have it, time permitting.
• Vader's Costume - I think they wanted it to look more like the Episode 4 version, so I understand that... but something about it just looked....... off. Maybe there's a good reason, I dunno.
• Ghost crew! I wanted to see them! ha ha!
• Leia's Escape - This was the biggest one. Episode 4 makes you think that she got transmissions beamed to her ship, as if she was doing a FLY-BY while on a mercy mission or diplomatic mission to Alderaan. But this movie has her escaping directly, from an Attack on the Empire. Basically her ship WAS there the whole time during an attack??!?! I have heard some explanations for it and I suppose they are ok... but this was my one major gripe.

• Leia's Escape - This was the biggest one. Episode 4 makes you think that she got transmissions beamed to her ship, as if she was doing a FLY-BY while on a mercy mission or diplomatic mission to Alderaan. But this movie has her escaping directly, from an Attack on the Empire. Basically her ship WAS there the whole time during an attack??!?! I have heard some explanations for it and I suppose they are ok... but this was my one major gripe.

It does grate a little given the exchange between Vader and poor old Raymus:

Vader: Where are those transmissions you intercepted? WHAT have you DONE with those plans?

Antilles: We intercepted no transmissions... [gasps] ... This is a consular ship... We're on a... diplomatic mission...

Vader: If this is a consular ship, WHERE is the ambassador?

• Vader's Costume - I think they wanted it to look more like the Episode 4 version, so I understand that... but something about it just looked....... off. Maybe there's a good reason, I dunno.

I haven't seen it yet but if they modeled on the EP4 Vader costume as close to the original as possible, Vader's helmet actually isn't symmetrical in EP 4. They fixed it in the later movies. According to behind the scenes from the DVD of EP 4. Maybe that explains it? Fun bit of trivia anyway.

-double post- Sorry

• Leia's Escape - This was the biggest one. Episode 4 makes you think that she got transmissions beamed to her ship, as if she was doing a FLY-BY while on a mercy mission or diplomatic mission to Alderaan. But this movie has her escaping directly, from an Attack on the Empire. Basically her ship WAS there the whole time during an attack??!?! I have heard some explanations for it and I suppose they are ok... but this was my one major gripe.

It does grate a little given the exchange between Vader and poor old Raymus:

Vader: Where are those transmissions you intercepted? WHAT have you DONE with those plans?

Antilles: We intercepted no transmissions... [gasps] ... This is a consular ship... We're on a... diplomatic mission...

Vader: If this is a consular ship, WHERE is the ambassador?

They did intercept a transmission -- from the surface of Scarif. And earlier Bail said he was going to send someone in his stead that he "trusted with his life." Leia's presence then makes for plausible cover as a "diplomatic mission" -- which Vader clearly doesn't buy, as he saw the ship flee the battle. He calls Antilles out on it, not knowing that Leia, an Imperial Senator is aboard.

• Leia's Escape - This was the biggest one. Episode 4 makes you think that she got transmissions beamed to her ship, as if she was doing a FLY-BY while on a mercy mission or diplomatic mission to Alderaan. But this movie has her escaping directly, from an Attack on the Empire. Basically her ship WAS there the whole time during an attack??!?! I have heard some explanations for it and I suppose they are ok... but this was my one major gripe.

It does grate a little given the exchange between Vader and poor old Raymus:

Vader: Where are those transmissions you intercepted? WHAT have you DONE with those plans?

Antilles: We intercepted no transmissions... [gasps] ... This is a consular ship... We're on a... diplomatic mission...

Vader: If this is a consular ship, WHERE is the ambassador?

With all the attention to detail of everything else, This was my biggest annoyance, If they had changed up the ending slightly they could still have that line from ANH have a better feeling of continuity.

After that my only other major gripe was the U-wing hyperspace jump from within atmo at the first testing site, (forget the name atm) it breaks the rules of the franchise, TFA hyperspace from the cargo bay is at least not jumping near a large enough grav well, but that U-wing jump /shudder. still a great movie

edit:

They did intercept a transmission -- from the surface of Scarif. And earlier Bail said he was going to send someone in his stead that he "trusted with his life." Leia's presence then makes for plausible cover as a "diplomatic mission" -- which Vader clearly doesn't buy, as he saw the ship flee the battle. He calls Antilles out on it, not knowing that Leia, an Imperial Senator is aboard.

that was in mention to getting obi-wan not going on the rejected mission plan....

• Leia's Escape - This was the biggest one. Episode 4 makes you think that she got transmissions beamed to her ship, as if she was doing a FLY-BY while on a mercy mission or diplomatic mission to Alderaan. But this movie has her escaping directly, from an Attack on the Empire. Basically her ship WAS there the whole time during an attack??!?! I have heard some explanations for it and I suppose they are ok... but this was my one major gripe.

It does grate a little given the exchange between Vader and poor old Raymus:

Vader: Where are those transmissions you intercepted? WHAT have you DONE with those plans?

Antilles: We intercepted no transmissions... [gasps] ... This is a consular ship... We're on a... diplomatic mission...

Vader: If this is a consular ship, WHERE is the ambassador?

They did intercept a transmission -- from the surface of Scarif. And earlier Bail said he was going to send someone in his stead that he "trusted with his life." Leia's presence then makes for plausible cover as a "diplomatic mission" -- which Vader clearly doesn't buy, as he saw the ship flee the battle. He calls Antilles out on it, not knowing that Leia, an Imperial Senator is aboard.

"We're on a diplomatic mission, even though you just saw us undock from a rebel warship that openly attacked your forces."

I felt the female lead was very strong (she is actually one of my favourite characters now) and thus I am not bothered by the perceived "lack" of female rebels. Besides, the Alliance is a MILITARY organization and it makes sense that it would be dominated by men.

• Leia's Escape - This was the biggest one. Episode 4 makes you think that she got transmissions beamed to her ship, as if she was doing a FLY-BY while on a mercy mission or diplomatic mission to Alderaan. But this movie has her escaping directly, from an Attack on the Empire. Basically her ship WAS there the whole time during an attack??!?! I have heard some explanations for it and I suppose they are ok... but this was my one major gripe.

It does grate a little given the exchange between Vader and poor old Raymus:Vader: Where are those transmissions you intercepted? WHAT have you DONE with those plans?

Antilles: We intercepted no transmissions... [gasps] ... This is a consular ship... We're on a... diplomatic mission...

Vader: If this is a consular ship, WHERE is the ambassador?

They did intercept a transmission -- from the surface of Scarif. And earlier Bail said he was going to send someone in his stead that he "trusted with his life." Leia's presence then makes for plausible cover as a "diplomatic mission" -- which Vader clearly doesn't buy, as he saw the ship flee the battle. He calls Antilles out on it, not knowing that Leia, an Imperial Senator is aboard.

"We're on a diplomatic mission, even though you just saw us undock from a rebel warship that openly attacked your forces."

I mean, you never know if the lie will work or not if you don't try at least.

I mean, you never know if the lie will work or not if you don't try at least.

As for the hammer head, there is this thing called inertia, and it really does work in space. The tug actually had to work up to it. Also they are massive ships but they aren't in gravity. So some real physics there, which is very odd for a star wars movie where space has atmosphere.

How did the Devastator track down the Tantive 4 exactly? Maybe they were able to track it because it was at the battle and followed it in hyperspace. Also explains why Vader knew they had the plans and were worried about transmission being made. It seems awkward at first but does make sense.

Most movies lack women, this one did better that most actually.

Storm troopers sucking after they stopped using the clones is well documented. You do know the "armor" is actually just cheap plastic, right?

The Mon Cal Cruiser was the cheapy version. The Rebellion wasn't well supported until after their huge victory over the death star. It should look ghetto compared to the premium Mon Cal cruisers. This was well done in the movie.

But the ISD should have inertia left, as it was flying before. And how again did the "tug" bring the ISD to a speed, that both ISDs sliced themselves apart?

The Armour is armour not cheap plastic:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_armor

And stormtroopers were not as good as clones, but still good (remeber what Kenobi said about them).

Better than most that do bad is not good enough.

Google car accident, you'll see the inspiration for that collision. As to the tug bringing the ship to speed, they aren't in gravity. It ends up being thrust over time to build up that inertia necessary to move both ships. You can have a small amount of thrust over a longer period of time or a large amount for a shorter amount of time. In gravity with friction small thrust doesn't do much but in vacuum and no gravity, it actually works. This is very odd for a star wars movie where ships in space act like they are in atmosphere, complete with sound. That is the problem, they use so much fantasy physics in star wars that when they use real physics it seems phony.

Yeah, that armor is plastic, it stops blaster blots and ewok thrown rocks like it is just for show plastic. What else could it be?

Kenobi was out of it for a while and may been remember his clone troops? And really, he may have been BSing, it's his thing when Luke was around. That or stromtroopers are really really good at shooting up jawa sandcrawers and not much else. Boba Fett was a good shot in ESB, the storm troopers, not so much.

There is still a taboo about women in ground combat, so yeah, no women troops. This movie is being shown internationally. The star was a woman, the leader of the rebellion was a woman, you had women pilots and council members, Jyn's mom and CGI Leia. Actually better than EP7 and way better than EP4. Considering the nature of this movie, probably as good as it could be.

• Leia's Escape - This was the biggest one. Episode 4 makes you think that she got transmissions beamed to her ship, as if she was doing a FLY-BY while on a mercy mission or diplomatic mission to Alderaan. But this movie has her escaping directly, from an Attack on the Empire. Basically her ship WAS there the whole time during an attack??!?! I have heard some explanations for it and I suppose they are ok... but this was my one major gripe.

It does grate a little given the exchange between Vader and poor old Raymus:

Vader: Where are those transmissions you intercepted? WHAT have you DONE with those plans?

Antilles: We intercepted no transmissions... [gasps] ... This is a consular ship... We're on a... diplomatic mission...

Vader: If this is a consular ship, WHERE is the ambassador?

They did intercept a transmission -- from the surface of Scarif. And earlier Bail said he was going to send someone in his stead that he "trusted with his life." Leia's presence then makes for plausible cover as a "diplomatic mission" -- which Vader clearly doesn't buy, as he saw the ship flee the battle. He calls Antilles out on it, not knowing that Leia, an Imperial Senator is aboard.

Letsee if I can remember the exact lines:

Vader: "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel Spies. I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you."

Leia: "I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the Imperial Senate on a Diplomatic mission to Alderaan!"

Vader: "You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor. TAKE HER AWAY!"

I get the sense that Vader witnessing the CR-90 escape gave him the drive to hunt down Leia's ship, but it took him a few days to do so. In the meantime the Tantive IV was trying to evade the Devastator and blend in among other CR-90s roaming the galaxy. ANH is when Vader finally catches up with Leia over her objective, and by then he would have learned of other spy transmissions being traced to this particular corvette. I think there's a small story to tell about Leia trying to shake the Devestator's pursuit.

It's not as if Vader was on the Devastator's bridge when the Tantive took off. He still needs to get back to his ship and find out where that escaping corvette went.

There's a possible out for Admiral Raddis as well: he could have fled on the Tantive and Leia dropped him off as a decoy or to get him to safety. Not everyone who didn't show up in ANH has to die... Mon Mothma was absent as well.

i think the isd's ramming each other via hammerhead was the only part i wasnt happy with... it was OK... just was hoping for a little more imagination... or less... i mean why couldnt the mon cal get in there and start blasting that gate? maybe sacrificing itself to the isd's in order to do so... instead we get general fishface coming up with a convoluted PLAN... ram the disabled isd with one of the smallest ships we have, into the other isd, and HOPE they fall right into the gate as a result, because rebellions are built on hope... sorta had me facepalming a bit there

Yeah, the hyperspacing out of atmosphere is a bit annoying, really though maybe because it was a moon the gravity was small enough (still a streach IMO). Also the X-wings just murderizing AT-ATs, guess all they needed was X-wings on Hoth.

I actually liked the hammerhead ramming the ISD, as it was ion'd and in able to stabilize itself. I'm more annoyed by the ISDs doing nothing that fight, like did they even fire??? At least Devastator came in guns blazing and proved that Neb-bs really are that fragile.