i dont ever see T65s except for Biggs. Biggs does not count when comparing T65s to T70s, as hes not there for an Xwing hes there to be a meatshield. IF he does damage, sweet, if not, oh well.

We saw a lot of Wes purely because torpboats were a thing. Havent seen him ever since deadeye change. Ironic...*cough*

So, this is a suggestion I've posted a couple times before, but I might as well post it here as well.

I really see the X-Wing as needing it's own new gimmick to make it worth taking over the T-70, and what I've come up with is a new type of maneuver:

T-65 X-Wing

Title. X-Wing Only. Rebel Alliance Only.

After performing a [left bank] or [right bank] maneuver, you may rotate your ship 90 degrees, and position the base along the template as if performing a barrel roll. If you do, treat this maneuver as a red maneuver.

0 points.

I think of it as somewhat like a precursor to the Tallon Roll that the T-70 has. A similar sort of maneuver, but one that happens on banks instead of hards. Having tried it on the table, this is a really entertaining and unpredictable maneuver, and since you get to decide between three different directions for your ship to face when you're doing a bank maneuver, this makes X-Wings pretty good at getting shots on arc dodgers.

It's also pretty obvious that X-Wings need a bump to their efficiency. Before, they didn't need a huge bump, just something to put them on the same level as the TIE Advanced, post-fix. But with the x7, I'm not so sure. My thought before was to have a new astromech that could bump up the firepower of the X-Wing, E-Wing, and T-70 all at once, while also being one that typically wouldn't be used by the Y-Wing. Having flown the ARC a few times, I can see it having some use on there as well, but for the most part, the ARC pilots all have other astromechs they prefer.

Guidance Astromech

When performing a primary weapon attack, you may change one die result to a [hit] result.

2 points

Initially I was thinking of having it be a one point astromech and be X-Wing only, but now I think it'd work better at 2 points and available to any ship that can take an astromech. Two points puts it in competition with R3-A2, R5-K6, Targeting Astromech, and R7 Astromech, The closest comparison would be to the Targeting Astromech, another purely offensive droid. While one provides actions on red maneuvers (Which works rather well with my suggested title, especially on Hobbie), the other works whenever you have arc. And at 2 points, you can toss it and Vectored Thrusters on a Rookie Pilot and have an X-Wing that can barrel roll and still get modded shots for only 25 points. Not perfect, but I feel it'd definitely be far better than the current X-Wing.

Edit: I'm also a bit fan of the idea of a dual-sided title card that provides variable fire options.

Linked Fire System (Side 1)

Title. X-Wing Only.

Increase your primary weapon value by one. After performing an attack, roll an evade die. On an [evade] result, assign a weapons disabled token to your ship.

Action: Flip this card.

0 points.

Linked Fire System (Side 2)

Decrease your primary weapon value by one. You may perform two attacks during the combat phase.

Action: Flip this card.

0 points.

One is far more reliable against low agility targets, while the other has a better chance at punching through high agility foes. Either way, you're technically increasing the X-Wing's firepower.

I'm not sure what everyone's hate on for the t70 is. Everyone is throwing around how the T70 supposedly outclasses the regular Xwing in every regard... BUT more regular Xwings appear in tournaments.

Point for point, the t65 is a better jouster than the T70. 4 Rookiees and a Bandit will ruin 4 Blue Squaron's day simply by bringing an extra 2 die popgun along.

Both ships rely on powerful pilot abilities to be relevant... but the only pilots that actually see use are Biggs, Wes and Poe. BOTH ships need a buff.

Well here's the thing about the T-70, it's not a jouster in the strictest sense. It works better as a dog fighter, it's tougher and has better maneuvers and is an excellent push the limit ship. I'm willing to bet the 4 blues could beat the rookies with superior positioning. Admittedly that one sounds close. But those guys vs. 3 PTL Red Vets? My money is on the vets.

Thanks for making my point.

I'm honestly lost on how I'm making your point.

I'm not sure what everyone's hate on for the t70 is. Everyone is throwing around how the T70 supposedly outclasses the regular Xwing in every regard... BUT more regular Xwings appear in tournaments.

Point for point, the t65 is a better jouster than the T70. 4 Rookiees and a Bandit will ruin 4 Blue Squaron's day simply by bringing an extra 2 die popgun along.

Both ships rely on powerful pilot abilities to be relevant... but the only pilots that actually see use are Biggs, Wes and Poe. BOTH ships need a buff.

Well here's the thing about the T-70, it's not a jouster in the strictest sense. It works better as a dog fighter, it's tougher and has better maneuvers and is an excellent push the limit ship. I'm willing to bet the 4 blues could beat the rookies with superior positioning. Admittedly that one sounds close. But those guys vs. 3 PTL Red Vets? My money is on the vets.

I'll take that bet, if the rookiee/bandit player knows how to block.

You're right that it's a different ship... but BOTH ships are underpowered, and by about the same amount.

One fix for both is the way to go.

What would a theoretical 0pt Astro do?

R2-D0!- unique. When it is obvious to both players that the maneuver chosen was the wrong bearing, reverse that bearing and discard this card.

H2-O2- unique. If your opponent takes a drink during the game deal one damage to an enemy ship of your choice then flip this card.

----

All straight maneuvers green? Decrease your pilot skill by 1? When you reveal a 2 straight you may Kturn?

lol Well, a 0 point astromech doesnt have to do anything other than take up the slot to let you take integrated astromech for free.

My idea for a 0 point mech is to encourage the use of torps on x-wings and y-wings, but like I said, it could literally have no card text at all and be worth it.

I think a zero or negative point astromech could/should still be functional. Just plugging the slot is lazy design, IMO. A discard astromech brings an interesting tactical choice for the player: do I discard the astromech for its function or for IA? Otherwise, I was thinking about an astromech that gives PS 12 during the setup phase (which would be thematic); this has increased in likelihood now that there are card functions specifically influencing setup and nothing else.

Another problem: can "X-Wing only" astromechs be justified? Don't think so. Some function like "Your number of torpedo slots becomes 2" is also possible; totally redundant on a Y-Wing but effective for X- and E-Wings. Just an example.

But the best choice remains the one that has been playtested well.

I like the idea of encouraging torpedo use on X-wings, though my approach would be this:

Ordnance Astromech (0 points): When you are instructed to discard a target lock to perform a [torpedo] attack, do not discard the target lock.

Did they not fix xwing when they reskin of the starter set and re named it

Different X-wing.

Looks same just thought they renamed it

But for how heavily mod the xwings where maybe they should do something along them lines but xwing needs 4 attack for sure

Yes, because I'd much rather fly Poe Dameron (A pilot which should be dead or stranded on Jakku, according to the part of the movie before he inexplicably appeared at Maz Kanata's cantina) than Luke Skywalker, Wedge antilles, Biggs Darklighter, Wes Janson or Hobbie Klivian which I've loved from early childhood.

Additionally, the T-70 is not a fix to the T-65, that's kind of weird. Its like saying the Upsilon is a fix for the Lambda - they have different roles.

I enjoy astromechs, and there are certainly plenty of them in the expanded universe to use.

Gate (Astromech, 2 points, dual card, unique) - Gives you some thematic options that are useless of Corran but great on Wedge.

A) When attacking, roll 1 additional attack die. After performing an attack, you must flip this card.

B) When attacking, roll 1 fewer attack die. After performing an attack, you may flip this card.

Astromech Refit (Astromech, -2 points) - Fantastic on Wedge and Wes as arc-dodgers, and thematic as a fast X-wing.

This card has a negative point cost.

During the combat phase you may execute a [sLAM] action instead of performing an attack.

Rogue Squadron (Title, 0 points) Again, thematic. Rogue squadron ran with wingmen. This also gives an opportunity for Wedge, Wes and Luke to make a comeback.

Your upgrade bar gains the {Elite Pilot Talent] icon. You may only use [Elite Pilot Talent] abilities when there is a friendly ship at range 1-2.

I believe that the X-wing needs options for its generics and elites. As it is there's only one - if any - optimal build for each pilot:

Wes with BB-8, IA and VI.

Biggs with R4-D6 and IA

Huh, that's about it.

Options are always good.

What about a different approach entirely?

What about an aces pack with, say, an X-wing, and a Y-wing, but in it come 3 "X-wing T-65" dials? And then the title has a simple one-liner to use the T-65 dial?
A marginally improved dial perhaps, in combination with some upgrade which achieves an effect similar to an attack of improved strength, e.g. rewarding attack speed for example, if you perform a maneuver of speed 3 assign 1 focus token.

just a thought.

What about a different approach entirely?

What about an aces pack with, say, an X-wing, and a Y-wing, but in it come 3 "X-wing T-65" dials? And then the title has a simple one-liner to use the T-65 dial?

A marginally improved dial perhaps, in combination with some upgrade which achieves an effect similar to an attack of improved strength, e.g. rewarding attack speed for example, if you perform a maneuver of speed 3 assign 1 focus token.

just a thought.

Dangerous thinking... but what if they introduced a new "T65" with "new" pilots.

Yes, because I'd much rather fly Poe Dameron (A pilot which should be dead or stranded on Jakku, according to the part of the movie before he inexplicably appeared at Maz Kanata's cantina) than Luke Skywalker, Wedge antilles, Biggs Darklighter, Wes Janson or Hobbie Klivian which I've loved from early childhood.

Additionally, the T-70 is not a fix to the T-65, that's kind of weird. Its like saying the Upsilon is a fix for the Lambda - they have different roles.

I enjoy astromechs, and there are certainly plenty of them in the expanded universe to use.

Gate (Astromech, 2 points, dual card, unique) - Gives you some thematic options that are useless of Corran but great on Wedge.

A) When attacking, roll 1 additional attack die. After performing an attack, you must flip this card.

B) When attacking, roll 1 fewer attack die. After performing an attack, you may flip this card.

Astromech Refit (Astromech, -2 points) - Fantastic on Wedge and Wes as arc-dodgers, and thematic as a fast X-wing.

This card has a negative point cost.

During the combat phase you may execute a [sLAM] action instead of performing an attack.

Rogue Squadron (Title, 0 points) Again, thematic. Rogue squadron ran with wingmen. This also gives an opportunity for Wedge, Wes and Luke to make a comeback.

Your upgrade bar gains the {Elite Pilot Talent] icon. You may only use [Elite Pilot Talent] abilities when there is a friendly ship at range 1-2.

I believe that the X-wing needs options for its generics and elites. As it is there's only one - if any - optimal build for each pilot:

Wes with BB-8, IA and VI.

Biggs with R4-D6 and IA

Huh, that's about it.

Options are always good.

Tarn R7 and IA (or that new G-droid)

Zombie Biggs (R2D6 with Adaptability)

Alternatively, you can embrace and expand the pilot-monobuild list

Hobbie, Targeting Astro, (EPT for Stay on Target)

Experties Luke with Vectored Thrsters

Something to make the Porkens Roulette more reliable (porkens Expirimental interface hullrepair droid)

Something for Garven to get more focus tokens.

And yet again......we may yet get a new core set; the last two times the Mouse did...

So you think it would be fine for Biggs (the only T-65 that sees regular play) to cost 21 points (or even 19) with IA and R4-D6 ?

Absolutely. While Palpatine costs less than 16 and Zuckuss is less than 8, I would be happy with Biggs at 19.

The extra hull boost action and dial doesn't cost the same as the upgrade cards.

You're right. It is different, primarily due to changes in Attack and Agility ratings.

- Take a Phantom, with a base cost of 18. It has a nearly identical, but slightly better dial, better slots and equally good pilots. Its base cost is 18, meaning that a shield is worth 3 points for an X-wing.

- A boost action is worth 4 points, no questions asked.

- With the dial, who knows. Playtesting is required.

Regardless, an X-wing falls short of nearly every other ship in the game. A Punisher is better than an X-wing in many ways, but probably on par overall. The only thing I can think of that's worse than an X-wing is a HWK without a turret...

You missed a costing point, the actions on the Phantom aren't the same as the actions on an X-wing, neither are the attack values. Combined with the latent benefit of the cloak action the costing system doesn't work the way most of us think it does.

Even if you break it down to the most basic units, a Bandit Sqn Z and an Academy Tie (12pts vs 11). The bandit should cost slightly more due to the higher PS, while they both have the focus action the bandit has an additional offensive action (target lock) whilst the Tie has a defensive (very powerful) action (evade) and a utility action (barrel roll) I say utility because to me, the mobility actions (barrel roll and boost) are both offensive and defensive. The positional control they have probably means they cost as much if not more (in building terms) as an evade. Evade is a very powerful action since it guarantees avoiding 1 hit or crit rolled when attacked (albeit single use).

You could try to break down the costs based on the stat line of a Tie but you still have to factor the actions and upgrades available to a ship. They affect it's offensive and defensive capabilities beyond that of the basic ship. Take the "Punishing One" title for the Jumpmaster. At 12 points it's the most expensive upgrade for any non-epic ship. All it provides is +1 primary attack value. But because of Dengar's ability it has been costed to reflect the additional power it gives him and in play it's generally only used on him because of the cost.

Why is there so many "fixit" threads in the main forum? Fix this! Fix that!

Is it because you all think you are smarter than the designers of X-wing? or simply because you love the game and want to contribute? or is it because you are an attention-grabbing-smart-ass who just wants to get likes?

Please STOP fixing it. The game is great!!! NOW GO PLAY!!!

The game is great!

Could be better.

Why is there so many "fixit" threads in the main forum? Fix this! Fix that!

Is it because you all think you are smarter than the designers of X-wing? or simply because you love the game and want to contribute? or is it because you are an attention-grabbing-smart-ass who just wants to get likes?

Please STOP fixing it. The game is great!!! NOW GO PLAY!!!

It's because people with the appropriate maths skills have performed analysis on every ship and we can see very clearly when a ships not costed correctly.

It's also because we've looked at the competitive scene and we can see what ships perform well and which don't.

The x-wing isn't fine its got the most pilots in the game but you'll only ever see Biggs and no one takes him for the ship he's in.

Looks same just thought they renamed it

But for how heavily mod the xwings where maybe they should do something along them lines but xwing needs 4 attack for sure

Doesn't look the same.

4 attack is also crazy powerful, hence its rarity and usually being on very cumbersome ships.

That being said the X-wing's Wave 1 distinguishing feature was its firepower so maybe a damage based "fix" might do the trick.

Why is there so many "fixit" threads in the main forum? Fix this! Fix that!

Is it because you all think you are smarter than the designers of X-wing? or simply because you love the game and want to contribute? or is it because you are an attention-grabbing-smart-ass who just wants to get likes?

Please STOP fixing it. The game is great!!! NOW GO PLAY!!!

First of all, I hope you are having a great day. Go watch Rogue One again, it is awesome.

Second, I can tell you from A LOT of experience just how very obnoxious it is to look at your collection of minis and realize that most of them are so incredibly underpowered in the current meta because their point costs are so obviously stupid that you will never use them. I played 40k for 18 years. That is the case for hundreds of models that I own. It is frustrating to sit by year after year watching the bad units that you want to play get worse and worse.

X-wing is so refreshing because they actually try to balance the game. 40k intentionally makes new stuff insane and old models that you already own garbage when a new rule book comes out. So at this point its just chasing perfection. I love that I can look at my collection of X-wing and say "I love that ship, let's fly that today". I play a different list every week at my local store and in most non-regional level tournaments. Almost every ship can actually be used competitively.

That being said, there are a few ships that just aren't good, and honestly should be fixed. If this wasn't true, than things like Chandaan Refit, integrated astromech, and Tie X7 Defenders would not have been released. These are all obvious attempts to correct over-costed ships. It is usually pretty obvious when I ship just costs too much for what it does. X-wings are definitely on that list along with Tie Punishers, Kihraxz fighters, rebel hawks, and some others.

So yeah, I want an x-wing fix because I want to play x-wings without fighting with my hand tied behind my back. And while I don't get to design stuff for this game, it is a fun thought experiment to try to develop a balanced fix for an under performing ship. People throwing ideas back and forth, tweaking, playing testing their "fixes" and designing new ships are how game designers are born.

Hmm having given it some thought 4 attack dice while tempting, doesn't seem to solve the X-Wings real problem, keeping up. It's rather frustrating when I perfectly predict my opponents maneuver and can think of not a single way to exploit it.

If they release any further xwing fixes (and it's a big if) it will likely be indirect ones through a different release (like auto thrusters with the virago).

They've already had 3 xwing expansions, a fourth would be kinda excessive.

It's hardly fair to count the old core, the game was balanced very differently then.