Not so. The X shouldn't be as good as the T-70 or E, but a cheaper price can make it more viable. A headhunter is almost always worse than an A-Wing but it's fewer points. I don't want the X to be as good as the T70, but I'd like to not feel better off with Bs, which are in the same price range and have better survivabily, reposition, and aresenals...

My point was that the X-wing needed either 7 points of extra power at its current level, or a point reduction of seven (maybe 5) points in order to make it the equal of the T-70 in competitive play.

As for competitve play, say I buy two X-wings and you by a Punishing One. Guess who's winning nearly every game? Or say I buy an X-wing and you buy any other expansion . Guess who got the most bang for their buck?

So you think it would be fine for Biggs (the only T-65 that sees regular play) to cost 21 points (or even 19) with IA and R4-D6?

The extra hull boost action and dial doesn't cost the same as the upgrade cards. I'd love to see the actual playtesting costing process (something I've been involved with in other games) but the cost of an upgrade card doesn't reflect the cost of the specific action, rather the additional benefit is brings to something which doesn't have that ability or stands to gain. The T-65 is still my favorite ship from the universe ever since I first saw a New Hope, but it needs a point reduction of probably 2 points to bring it into line with the current place ships are in. When they first released the game the X-wing and Tie Fighter where balanced against each other in terms of efficiency and over time as more ships have been added the X-wing has lost it's efficiency compared to other ships. The Tie has kept it's place because of it's low cost and decent mobility.

The Incom T-65 X-Wing shouldn't be reduced to expensive tie fighter levels but it's cost should now reflect what FFG have learned about ship pricing since release. With the recent FAQ change to Biggs, making him easier to work around for opposing players there is room to reduce the X-Wing's cost by a couple of points or introduce a "title" which provides a couple of extra points of utility, say... "T-65 only, Title, Munitions Bay - Your action bar gains the (torpedo) action, you may not equip torpedoes with a squad point cost higher than 4" - this is a change to something that has been suggested above, allow the T-65's to have extra munitions and make some consistent use out of guidance chips but doesn't reduce their cost. Alternatively have it as a straight 2 point reduction but even the X-7 defender title included a benefit and a reduction in utility for the increased survivability.

Yea, I don't know anything about balancing ship or upgrade costs, but I'm super confident dropping the cost of x-wings by 7 points is ridiculous.

Yep, under that logic and FFG's mathematical model, TIEs would need to be dropped by something close to 3; that is silly-talk.

Seven Rookies Swarm? I'll take it every game...

I'm not sure you understand the love that the Mouse has for the T-70 and his "real" new movies; this filler movie got it's plug with the side-bar Rogue One expansions and that will be it.

The mouse is not the driving force behind what FFG does. They may have final approval and may tell FFG they want this, that or the other thing. But they're not going to stop FFG from pushing out buffs to existing ships.

No one from Disney is directing the development of the game, if they were we wouldn't see all this EU stuff that very likely no longer exists and we'd see the TFA era ships being much more powerful than they are.

Honestly, I think that the best way to fix the T-65 would simply be to reduce the cost a tad, just like the Defender.

A zero or even negative cost astromech might be the solution.

I'm sorry but I really hate this idea. I don't understand it. Yeah you get a points boost, but you lose one of your most powerful and in my experience vital combat slots. 2 slots are doing nothing if you take Integrated Astromech. Yeah I know you get a free hull, but it's not free when it steals the droid slot.

I'm curious what can be done with "Color" Leader Titles. Least confusing method would be to include a rules reference: any ship whose pilot name or title cards include a color are members of the squadron.

So a ship with Blue Leader title could buff a mixed squad of B,U, and X-wings (only T-70 currently) while Gold Leader could only buff Y-wings.

Blue Leader (unique title)

When attacking, all Blue Squadron members may receive a stress token to roll an additional attack die.

Gold Leader

When attacking with a secondary weapon, all Gold Squadron pilots may change one eyeball result to a hit result.

I did not give any real thought to the specific examples but would be a fun way to encourage more thematic builds.

Honestly, I think that the best way to fix the T-65 would simply be to reduce the cost a tad, just like the Defender.

A zero or even negative cost astromech might be the solution.

I'm sorry but I really hate this idea. I don't understand it. Yeah you get a points boost, but you lose one of your most powerful and in my experience vital combat slots. 2 slots are doing nothing if you take Integrated Astromech. Yeah I know you get a free hull, but it's not free when it steals the droid slot.

Honestly, I think that the best way to fix the T-65 would simply be to reduce the cost a tad, just like the Defender.

A zero or even negative cost astromech might be the solution.

I'm sorry but I really hate this idea. I don't understand it. Yeah you get a points boost, but you lose one of your most powerful and in my experience vital combat slots. 2 slots are doing nothing if you take Integrated Astromech. Yeah I know you get a free hull, but it's not free when it steals the droid slot.

So what? The points check out. I suppose TIE Defender players were reluctant to give up the cannon slot, too. It all depends on what you get in return.

The defender had the natural dial and stats to deal with that. Many of them weren't taking the cannon anyhow, too pricey. The ones that did still ended up with a buff. The X doesn't have the actions or dial to give up the mod and droid slot for a desperately needed HP and minor point reduction. I'm willing to bet the X has 3 to 4 pts built in for that one slot. Giving back 2 for it and a hull doesn't cut it.

Also Defender players got effectively multiple hull upgrades with those Evade tokens, which make a lot of difference.

Honestly, I think that the best way to fix the T-65 would simply be to reduce the cost a tad, just like the Defender.

A zero or even negative cost astromech might be the solution.

I'm sorry but I really hate this idea. I don't understand it. Yeah you get a points boost, but you lose one of your most powerful and in my experience vital combat slots. 2 slots are doing nothing if you take Integrated Astromech. Yeah I know you get a free hull, but it's not free when it steals the droid slot.

So what? The points check out. I suppose TIE Defender players were reluctant to give up the cannon slot, too. It all depends on what you get in return.

The defender had the natural dial and stats to deal with that. Many of them weren't taking the cannon anyhow, too pricey. The ones that did still ended up with a buff. The X doesn't have the actions or dial to give up the mod and droid slot for a desperately needed HP and minor point reduction. I'm willing to bet the X has 3 to 4 pts built in for that one slot. Giving back 2 for it and a hull doesn't cut it.

what about making the ship more durable?

with limited greens the X-Wing is hard to get rid of stress compared to many others (unless you put in R2 astro), and they pop super easy. This gives them a bit more staying power on the board, but it's not as strong as it seems on paper because as we all know... green dice are not reliable.

X-Wing _____________ title: Rebel Alliance Only. When you are defending treat all attacks as if they were at range 3. If you are not stressed you may take a free evade action at the start of the combat phase. Pilot skill 6 and higher

Honestly, I think that the best way to fix the T-65 would simply be to reduce the cost a tad, just like the Defender.

A zero or even negative cost astromech might be the solution.

I'm sorry but I really hate this idea. I don't understand it. Yeah you get a points boost, but you lose one of your most powerful and in my experience vital combat slots. 2 slots are doing nothing if you take Integrated Astromech. Yeah I know you get a free hull, but it's not free when it steals the droid slot.

So what? The points check out. I suppose TIE Defender players were reluctant to give up the cannon slot, too. It all depends on what you get in return.

The defender had the natural dial and stats to deal with that. Many of them weren't taking the cannon anyhow, too pricey. The ones that did still ended up with a buff. The X doesn't have the actions or dial to give up the mod and droid slot for a desperately needed HP and minor point reduction. I'm willing to bet the X has 3 to 4 pts built in for that one slot. Giving back 2 for it and a hull doesn't cut it.

Thanks for making my point.

what about making the ship more durable?

with limited greens the X-Wing is hard to get rid of stress compared to many others (unless you put in R2 astro), and they pop super easy. This gives them a bit more staying power on the board, but it's not as strong as it seems on paper because as we all know... green dice are not reliable.

X-Wing _____________ title: Rebel Alliance Only. When you are defending treat all attacks as if they were at range 3. If you are not stressed you may take a free evade action at the start of the combat phase. Pilot skill 6 and higher

what about making the ship more durable?

with limited greens the X-Wing is hard to get rid of stress compared to many others (unless you put in R2 astro), and they pop super easy. This gives them a bit more staying power on the board, but it's not as strong as it seems on paper because as we all know... green dice are not reliable.

X-Wing _____________ title: Rebel Alliance Only. When you are defending treat all attacks as if they were at range 3. If you are not stressed you may take a free evade action at the start of the combat phase. Pilot skill 6 and higher

The 3 greens and the Evade would make it pretty nasty for the Aces but you bring in 2 problems. The generics still aren't great, and now we are encroaching on E-Wing territory power. You have a PTL ship action economey, no stress, 3 greens, and a regeneration option, and with integrated and extra HP. (Admittedly if you take Vector or Engines it's different). Still I just don't see that being balanced as much as I like it.

E-Wing has more greens, does not have the actions to properly make use of PTL. cannot be stressed during combat phase which negates the use of PTL anyways

Make it a droid? but then you really buff E's

Buffing the T-65 and E-Wing should be on the "to do list" anyway.

Both deserve better.

what about making the ship more durable?

with limited greens the X-Wing is hard to get rid of stress compared to many others (unless you put in R2 astro), and they pop super easy. This gives them a bit more staying power on the board, but it's not as strong as it seems on paper because as we all know... green dice are not reliable.

X-Wing _____________ title: Rebel Alliance Only. When you are defending treat all attacks as if they were at range 3. If you are not stressed you may take a free evade action at the start of the combat phase. Pilot skill 6 and higher

The 3 greens and the Evade would make it pretty nasty for the Aces but you bring in 2 problems. The generics still aren't great, and now we are encroaching on E-Wing territory power. You have a PTL ship action economey, no stress, 3 greens, and a regeneration option, and with integrated and extra HP. (Admittedly if you take Vector or Engines it's different). Still I just don't see that being balanced as much as I like it.

E-Wing has more greens, does not have the actions to properly make use of PTL. cannot be stressed during combat phase which negates the use of PTL anyways

Make it a droid? but then you really buff E's

Well as you have it written you could PTL off the Evade still I see where you're at.

I think they should just differ the two. The T65 and T70 perform the same exact role, but both because the T65 is overcosted to begin with and the T70 is superior in every category the T65 has available to it, the T70 wins in any equal buffs they both get.

Flipside, if a buff is so great for both that it outshines the benefits the T70 has purely because of the slight price reduction to goto T65, nobody would use T70s unless like today they want a specific pilot for a specific reason (Tarn/Wes)

The T70 is already tankier, both +1 shields, Autothrustor options, and Techs offering both additional defense literally (Clusters) or figuratively (Pattern Analyzer, focus while red moving). Why not just feed into that? Make the T70 even more tanky (some kind of option that prevents Poe abusing it even further than he is, i.e. T70 specific droid or mod that messes with the droid slot) and make the T65 more glass-cannon.

Giving the T65 a 4die primary, free non-APT torps, and disallow regen of any kind while simo giving the T70 extra HP (hull or shields), a defensive-perk akin to Protectorate title where specific scenarios make them harder to hurt, and innate regen at the cost of an action that cant be a free action.

Bam, T65s are powerhouses that fold fairly quick if focused, and T70s are beefy enough to be a real thorn if they stick around too long for any 1 ship to deal with. Specifics to be determined of course.

Besides, iirc, the T70 was never mentioned to be more powerful than a T65, only faster and better shields.

Punisher/Bomber has the same exact problem: they do the same role, and one is obviously better. But, different topic.

Give a title that turns eyeballs into hits. Call it integrated targeting system or something.

Upping the firepower fails to address the issue that after the initial joust the X-wing is hosed because it's limited manoeuvring leaves it outclassed by so many ships.

Do a k turn then. You won't lose the effect of my suggested title. Not everything need to fly like a tie or we will need a new round of buffs to ties as well.

Honestly, I think that the best way to fix the T-65 would simply be to reduce the cost a tad, just like the Defender.

A zero or even negative cost astromech might be the solution.

I'm sorry but I really hate this idea. I don't understand it. Yeah you get a points boost, but you lose one of your most powerful and in my experience vital combat slots. 2 slots are doing nothing if you take Integrated Astromech. Yeah I know you get a free hull, but it's not free when it steals the droid slot.

I would much rather see a point reduction for astromechs, even if only applicable to non-unique as opposed to a useless one. Astromechs can help differentiate the ships.

I just want a 0 point astromech. This will make them A LOT better and easier to fit into lists and won't really make Biggs much better as people will still run R4-D6 on him. On other named pilots like Wes, Luke, or Wedge, people will continue to run R2-D2, BB-8, or R3-A2, so it will only really buff the low ps grunts that basically dont see any play.

What would a theoretical 0pt Astro do?

R2-D0!- unique. When it is obvious to both players that the maneuver chosen was the wrong bearing, reverse that bearing and discard this card.

H2-O2- unique. If your opponent takes a drink during the game deal one damage to an enemy ship of your choice then flip this card.

----

All straight maneuvers green? Decrease your pilot skill by 1? When you reveal a 2 straight you may Kturn?

Zero Point Astromechs? Sure

*R7-B4

Astromech

0 points

You may equip one Tech Upgrade to this ship. If this card is discarded, discard any equipped Tech card also.

*R7-Y0

Astromech

0 points

You may equip one System Upgrade to this ship. If this card is discarded, discard any equipped System card also.

Edit - Their nicknames are pronounced Before and Why Naught.

Hmm I don't know... After reading all of this imo it seems that the T-65 X-Wing needs abit of a point reduction and manueverbility.

How's this:

1. Red Squadron X-Wing:

(Dual Sided Card)

After you execute a manuver or a boost or barell roll action, you may choose to flip this card.

1. Charge up Power: If you did not suffer damage or if you did not attack anyone or if you did not damage anyone this Firing Phase, you may perform a free boost or barrel roll action the next activation phase.

2. Reinforced Frontal Deflectors: If your attacker is in your primary firing arc, you may change one (hit) to a (blank).

Squad point cost: -1

X-Wing only. Rebel Alliance only.

I'm not sure what everyone's hate on for the t70 is. Everyone is throwing around how the T70 supposedly outclasses the regular Xwing in every regard... BUT more regular Xwings appear in tournaments.

Point for point, the t65 is a better jouster than the T70. 4 Rookiees and a Bandit will ruin 4 Blue Squaron's day simply by bringing an extra 2 die popgun along.

Both ships rely on powerful pilot abilities to be relevant... but the only pilots that actually see use are Biggs, Wes and Poe. BOTH ships need a buff.