Oh I agree, just expected outrage about that.
Can't predict these things, seemingly.
Dangerous Territory and Strategic
And thats not the real use, flipping it from between your ships and theirs whilst they attack, to behind your ships whilst you attack.
Now thats the brutal use.
Someone was relating to me last night how they were using FC/FCT and Strategic on a Sensor Net game to make sure they always had a token within Distance 1 of them when they activated...
Their wording was "Claimed the one token 6 times in 2 turns"
Thats pretty sick
I think that's exactly what Strategic is there for. To use things like Jamming Fields, Minefields, Hyperspace Assault points or Gravity Well generators to your advantage.
Edited by NorellI didn't ask myself about this question as long as I remember (wrongly) that the objective tokens were assigned to the obstacle (as it happens with ships). That way would be easy. You could move the tokens but it doesn't matter cause that token in the corner is assigned to this debris field here and I can take it.
All you make me read the objective again and now I have the same problem XD
Strategic says you can move the token...I see no caveats.
Weird though, but that's what it says.
But this is likely overruled by the faq for the interaction with the G7 gravity well.
No, it is not. The rule for the Grav Shift Reroute (i guess this is what you mean instead of the G7) is different. It say that the token is on the obstacle, and when the obstacle is moved, the token moves with it.
But in this case you move the token. And i see currently no rule to not move the token off a obstacle. And while the token is not on an obstacle, you cannot collect it. But as soon as it is on an obstacle (as only token), you can get it from it, even if you got one from the same obstacles earlier.
That's for sure! You have to distinguish when the token is the aim itself (like Intel Sweep) and when the token is just a mark. Otherwise you could remove the objective token from a ship in "Opening Salvo" and claim it couldn't throw additional dice any more...
Non Issue:
The Objective Token is next to the ship card.
If you can Get a Strategic Squadron out of the Play Area, and over to where the Ship Card is, so you can be within distance 1 of it... Awesome.
RRG, PAGE 8, "Objectives"
• When a ship is chosen as an objective ship, indicate this by placing an objective token next to its ship card.
Common sense being used to interpret the rules? What is this madness?
Don't have to go that far... The rules have already accounted for it.
There is a difference between a ship choosen as objective ship and assigning an objective token to a ship (look at Advanced Gunnery, Opening Salvo).
The Ships with the objective tokens from the Opening Salvo are not objective ships. But you are placing an objetive token on a objetive ship, to indicated that this is the objective ship.
There is no rule where these objective tokens from opening Salvo are being placed. On all other missions it is said where they are placed (on the obstacle, within range x, outside of range x, ...).
The only Rule part I found is:
Setup Area
The setup area is the region of the play area in which ships, squadrons, obstacle tokens, and objective tokens are placed during setup.
But the objective Tokens from Opening Salvo are assigned. Not placed. And they are assigned after the setup, while all other objective tokens are placed during the setup.
Yes, it is a poor wording, to use the same word (objective) for different parts. And as soon as there is a card that refers to objective tokens it will lead to some problems. But using different words (objective token, Target Token, Salvo Token, ....) would lead to the problem that all these keywords have to be mentioned in the rules. It was easier to use one word for all these tokens. It just need a clarification in the rules or FAQ what tokens are allowed to be moved.
You should not be able to moved the tokens with strategic. Mainly because these Tokens are different from other objective tokens, even though they have the same name.
I'm almost certain that FFG will rule that objective tokens placed on, or assigned to, ships and obstacles cannot be moved with Strategic.
But the fact of the matter is, right now the rules don't say that.
Well, we have this. Of course I know someone who will tell that as the answer is about moving the obstacles it doesn't apply when moving tokens but I will put here anyway:
Yeah - the problem is, "If A, then B" does not mean "If B, then A".
But it's a big part of why I think FFG will rule that way.
Generally, when an Objective Token is claimed, it becomes a Victory Token
And Victory Tokens are by the Ship Card that Claimed them
Victory Tokens
Players may collect victory tokens as indicated by some objective cards and place them next to their ship cards. At the end of the game, each victory token increases the player’s score by the amount indicated on the objective card.
Ok, but no one tried to move victory tokens with strategic
.
Only objective tokens, that are sadly called the same on all missions, even when they fulfill different jobs within the mission.
And you can not say generally.
- There are objective tokens that are clamined (Intel Sweep, ...)
- Some that generate a victory token without being removed from the board (Fire Lanes, ...)
- There are some that can be removed to trigger an Effekt (Hyperspace Assault, ...)
- A few place an objective token to mark the objective ship (Most Wanted, ...)
- At least one that just give an effect (Targeting Beacon, ...)
- And one where objective toekens are placed on a ship (Opening Salvo).
Sadly these are all objective tokens. Even if the effekt of them is total different.
Ok, but no one tried to move victory tokens with strategic
Only objective tokens, that are sadly called the same on all missions, even when they fulfill different jobs within the mission.
And you can not say generally.
- There are objective tokens that are clamined (Intel Sweep, ...)
- Some that generate a victory token without being removed from the board (Fire Lanes, ...)
- There are some that can be removed to trigger an Effekt (Hyperspace Assault, ...)
- A few place an objective token to mark the objective ship (Most Wanted, ...)
- At least one that just give an effect (Targeting Beacon, ...)
- And one where objective toekens are placed on a ship (Opening Salvo).
Sadly these are all objective tokens. Even if the effekt of them is total different.
EDITING:
Intel Sweep - Can totally be Moved as Objective Token. Once Claimed, is removed from play area and you get a Victory Token. Finished.
Fire Lanes - Can Totally be Moved. No problem there. Generate Victory Tokens, but the objective tokens can be moved. No problem there.
Hyperspace Assault - can Totally be Moved, no problem there. They're removed once you hyper in, no problem there.
Most Wanted - Placed on the Ship card, Not the ship, Can't be Moved. No problem there.
Targeting Becaton / Ion Cannon - Can Totally be Moved. No problem there.
Opening Salvo - Placed on the Ship card, not the Ship. Can't be moved. No problem there.
Even Capture the VIP is very specific. Remove that Objective Token from the play Area, place on the Ship Card .... On the card, its not in the play area, and cannot be moved because you can't measure to it.
...
Rules state when an objective token is assigned to a ship to make an objective ship, its placed on the Ship card.
The only time we have an issue in regards to Strategic, and the Tokens, is dangerous territory , and that is because we have no mechanic for what happens when you move a token off an obstacle, and potentially onto another obstacle, which already has a token on it... Guidance is needed in that factor, and that factor alone.
In every other case , you either have an Objective Token that can be moved (for better or for worse)... Or you have an Objective token that is assigned to a Ship, and thusly, is placed with the Ship card and not the ship Model, Base, or Token.
Edited by Drasnighta
We need Unarmed Debris Fields cards here!
We need Unarmed Debris Fields cards here!
Maybe if we're lucky, the armed debris field cards will have their Anti-Squadron and Battery Armaments the right way around.
EDITING:
Intel Sweep - Can totally be Moved as Objective Token. Once Claimed, is removed from play area and you get a Victory Token. Finished.
Fire Lanes - Can Totally be Moved. No problem there. Generate Victory Tokens, but the objective tokens can be moved. No problem there.
Hyperspace Assault - can Totally be Moved, no problem there. They're removed once you hyper in, no problem there.
Most Wanted - Placed on the Ship card, Not the ship, Can't be Moved. No problem there.
Targeting Becaton / Ion Cannon - Can Totally be Moved. No problem there.
Opening Salvo - Placed on the Ship card, not the Ship. Can't be moved. No problem there.
Even Capture the VIP is very specific. Remove that Objective Token from the play Area, place on the Ship Card .... On the card, its not in the play area, and cannot be moved because you can't measure to it.
...
Rules state when an objective token is assigned to a ship to make an objective ship, its placed on the Ship card.
The only time we have an issue in regards to Strategic, and the Tokens, is dangerous territory , and that is because we have no mechanic for what happens when you move a token off an obstacle, and potentially onto another obstacle, which already has a token on it... Guidance is needed in that factor, and that factor alone.
In every other case , you either have an Objective Token that can be moved (for better or for worse)... Or you have an Objective token that is assigned to a Ship, and thusly, is placed with the Ship card and not the ship Model, Base, or Token.
We dont need to convince each other on this part. We are on the same believe.
Dangerous Territory need clarification. It should be able to move it, but it would cause some problems (what happen with tokens that are not on an obstacle, what happens when there are two tokens on one obstacle, can the tokens in space and not being on an obstacle).
I can see that the rule will be that the tokens are only to mark the obstacles, and cannot be moved or something. But this will be in the next FAQ (along with the Grav Shift Reroute....).
With Opening Salvo there is still a difference (not for understanding, but for definition).
On Advanced Gunnery you pick an objective ship. To indicate what is your objective ship you place a objective token on the ship card (this is what the rules say).
But on opening salvo the ship do not become objective ships by placing an objective token on them (not by the rules). The rules does not say where to place this objective token. But alone for this reason it is not possible to move these tokens with the strategic (imo).