Now to a much simpler question:

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'll ask anyway to have confirmation

Does Snipe benefit from Flight Controllers i.e. Snipe 4 for E-Wings if activated by Flight Controllers?

It's an attack so it should work, right?

If Flight controllers can be applied at your leasure, then sure. You're using the appropriate attack and can get an extra die.

The part that sways me is that flight controllers doesn't mention a timing so the most logical timing is immediately upon being selected for activation.

Now to a much simpler question:

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'll ask anyway to have confirmation

Does Snipe benefit from Flight Controllers i.e. Snipe 4 for E-Wings if activated by Flight Controllers?

It's an attack so it should work, right?

No if, and only if, you have to apply your flight controllers immediately when you activate. Flight controllers says to change a value which snipe will replace when you use it.

If Flight controllers can be applied at your leasure, then sure. You're using the appropriate attack and can get an extra die.

The part that sways me is that flight controllers doesn't mention a timing so the most logical timing is immediately upon being selected for activation.

I'm confused about how the timing would matter.

Do you mean that as soon as you activate a squadron it gets the buff, and as soon as it goes to Snipe the standard attack (which has been buffed) gets replaced by whatever is on the card?

Interesting. Possible.

Sounds to me like Snipe will get the buff due to wording. I feel like FC is a persistent buff that lasts through the activation.

Now to a much simpler question:

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'll ask anyway to have confirmation

Does Snipe benefit from Flight Controllers i.e. Snipe 4 for E-Wings if activated by Flight Controllers?

It's an attack so it should work, right?

No if, and only if, you have to apply your flight controllers immediately when you activate. Flight controllers says to change a value which snipe will replace when you use it.

If Flight controllers can be applied at your leasure, then sure. You're using the appropriate attack and can get an extra die.

The part that sways me is that flight controllers doesn't mention a timing so the most logical timing is immediately upon being selected for activation.

I'm confused about how the timing would matter.

Do you mean that as soon as you activate a squadron it gets the buff, and as soon as it goes to Snipe the standard attack (which has been buffed) gets replaced by whatever is on the card?

Interesting. Possible.

Sounds to me like Snipe will get the buff due to wording. I feel like FC is a persistent buff that lasts through the activation.

Conversely, if the buff isn't applied until I feel like it then its not until I say I'm going to Snipe with the snipe value that I intend to apply it.

Or you could say that snipe attacks are not made with the squadrons anti squadron armament but some nebulous anti squadron armament that exists only for snipe. Since the squadron got the bonus and not snipe then also no.

So I guess there's another argument for no.

FC buffs anti-squadron armament for the duration of the squadron activation. Snipe uses an anti-squadron armament of X dice.

Unless it says anywhere explicitly that snipe anti-squadron armament isn't an anti-squadron armament, then the buff applies.

There's no such thing as a timing when none is specified.

Now to a much simpler question:

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'll ask anyway to have confirmation

Does Snipe benefit from Flight Controllers i.e. Snipe 4 for E-Wings if activated by Flight Controllers?

It's an attack so it should work, right?

No if, and only if, you have to apply your flight controllers immediately when you activate. Flight controllers says to change a value which snipe will replace when you use it.

If Flight controllers can be applied at your leasure, then sure. You're using the appropriate attack and can get an extra die.

The part that sways me is that flight controllers doesn't mention a timing so the most logical timing is immediately upon being selected for activation.

You do realize there is not timing for FC? You get the bonus for the entire activation and can be used on any anti-squad attack.

": The anti-squadron armament of each squadron that you activate is increased by 1 blue die until the end of its activation."

Now to a much simpler question:

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'll ask anyway to have confirmation

Does Snipe benefit from Flight Controllers i.e. Snipe 4 for E-Wings if activated by Flight Controllers?

It's an attack so it should work, right?

No if, and only if, you have to apply your flight controllers immediately when you activate. Flight controllers says to change a value which snipe will replace when you use it.

If Flight controllers can be applied at your leasure, then sure. You're using the appropriate attack and can get an extra die.

The part that sways me is that flight controllers doesn't mention a timing so the most logical timing is immediately upon being selected for activation.

You do realize there is not timing for FC? You get the bonus for the entire activation and can be used on any anti-squad attack.

": The anti-squadron armament of each squadron that you activate is increased by 1 blue die until the end of its activation."

FC buffs anti-squadron armament for the duration of the squadron activation. Snipe uses an anti-squadron armament of X dice.

Unless it says anywhere explicitly that snipe anti-squadron armament isn't an anti-squadron armament, then the buff applies.

There's no such thing as a timing when none is specified.

You know what snipes with an anti-squadron armament? The ship which anti-squadron armament you just buffed using FC.

If you wanna argue semantics, counter and snipe are only worded that way to allow for an attack power different from the printed squadron AS armament.

Even if it's an AS armament, it doesn't come from nowhere, it belongs to the squadron. Ergo, it's not the counter armament, it's not the snipe armament, it is still the anti-squadron armament of the squadron.

Unless, of course, a specific FAQ entry states otherwise, or what snipe does is actually call in a sniper team with their own little AS armament rifles.

As for the timing, the relevant rules part about the header is in the timing section in p.5:

"Effects with a command icon as a header, such as “M:,” can be resolved once while the ship is resolving the matching command."

That is the only timing there is to resolving FC, which states that its particular effect then lasts for each squadron until the end of its activation.

There's no hidden timing in there. At least none that isn't just an interpretation, and therefore irrelevant.

No need for hyperbole, gowtah.

The Core of the issue is:

The Anti-Squadron Armament of a Squadron is Printed on its Card.

Flight Controllers has (always) Modified, effectively, what is Printed on its card in the Anti-Squadron Armament Box.

That Box is referenced when you Attack a Squadron. So of course, when you have Flight Controllers active, and you reference that box, the addition is there.

-

However. "An" Anti-Squadron Armament and "Its" Anti-Squadron Armament may be two different things. Certainly, the Snipe armament and the Anti-Squadron Armament of a card is different on one of the Three types of Snipe equipped Cards we have anyway...

Just as Counter is "A number of Blue Dice"... There's no reference to the original Anti-Squadron Armament... I mean, like I did with Moff Jerjerrod and Engine Techs on an Interdictor, I could go get and modify a Squadron card.

Its going to show that with Flight Controllers, the Anti-Squadron Armament box on the Card gets an Increased Die.

But it wont' change the text on the rule for Snipe . Snipe specifies how many dice to gather an throw.

Howlrunner applies, because Howlrunner is a modify dice effect . Flight Controllers is not . It is effectively a Battery Upgrade.

This makes squadrons kind of a reversal of the Typical Obstructed / Ackbar rule we see with Ships all the time - and may be a reason as to why it seems "counter-intuitive" to some...

That is the main argument for it.

In short, to counter your argument... The Anti-Squadron Armament value of Snipe does not belong to the Squadron . It belongs to the Snipe Rule , as dictated by the Number next to the word "Snipe". Just as if you had an addition to your Anti-Squadron Armament on a Ship, that would not apply during a Counter attack granted by Quad Laser Turrets. But you sure as hell would if it were granted to "anti-squadron attacks"...

Let's just say you're probably right but I'm still unhappy with the demonstration.

Well the issue is whether FC applies to the box in a restrictive manner, or not. I totally see your point, I just don't see anything that says it *has* to be restrictive.

Saying the AS armement belongs to the snipe rule doesn't make it not belonging to the squadron. The squadron is attacking using a printed AS armament value, whether it's the box, the snipe, or the counter. They all specify how many dice to throw. They all become the squadron AS armament for the purpose of their respective attacks.

You know, just like ET speed becomes the ship's speed for the purpose of the ET maneuver.

Also, if the AS armament used in the attack belongs to the snipe rule and never becomes "the squadron AS armament", then the snipe effect is attacking, not the squadron, and Howlrunner doesn't apply.

Let's just say you're probably right but I'm still unhappy with the demonstration.

Let it be known I don't exactly enjoy being "right" in this instance, either. I think its dumb and it should probably apply, I don't have any personal objections to it applying, as its either low-powered or Unique in its nature...

But how I see the rules is how I See the rules...

Soooo.......

In short: they don't work with FC?

What a relief for my TIE Defenders

Soooo.......

In short: they don't work with FC?

What a relief for my TIE Defenders

::shrug::

I'm not Michael Gernes.

You need to ask him for an "official" answer.

Soooo.......

In short: they don't work with FC?

What a relief for my TIE Defenders

::shrug::

I'm not Michael Gernes.

You need to ask him for an "official" answer.

I'm kind of hoping for the rules booklet that comes with CC to clarify some of this stuff. Would that be official or no?

Soooo.......

In short: they don't work with FC?

What a relief for my TIE Defenders

::shrug::

I'm not Michael Gernes.

You need to ask him for an "official" answer.

I'm kind of hoping for the rules booklet that comes with CC to clarify some of this stuff. Would that be official or no?

Yes.

But I doubt the Rules Insert in the Squadron Pack (Where it is more likely to be, as these are not CC Rules as such), will just state Snipe as per Verbatim of the Card.

i say snipe can benefit from FCs , snipe uses anti-squad armament , but i don't agree that snipe can ingore the squad at distance 1, while shooting/sniping the squad at distance 2. that is assume the squad at distance one is not heavy . the RRs says on page 6 "When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron..." which was written before snipe was ever thought about. the whole obstructed argument for squads in faq doesn't matter here. it's like saying a squad with "rogue" can just fly away from the squad at distance 1 (that is not heavy) and fly over to the squad at distance 2 to attack him. if you have a non-heavy squad at distance 1 you have to attack them as opposed to sniping a squad at distance 2.

i say snipe can benefit from FCs , snipe uses anti-squad armament , but i don't agree that snipe can ingore the squad at distance 1, while shooting/sniping the squad at distance 2. that is assume the squad at distance one is not heavy . the RRs says on page 6 "When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron..." which was written before snipe was ever thought about. the whole obstructed argument for squads in faq doesn't matter here. it's like saying a squad with "rogue" can just fly away from the squad at distance 1 (that is not heavy) and fly over to the squad at distance 2 to attack him. if you have a non-heavy squad at distance 1 you have to attack them as opposed to sniping a squad at distance 2.

The main question here for range is only involving a single squadron:

If I have a single squadron, can I shoot it with my Snipe value and thus ignore its counter? (What if its close to me?)

I can't reply with a quote cause I don't hace the rules here but I bet that somewhere there is something like "you can shoot non-engaged-with squadrons even if you are actually engaged with other squadrons". Maybe the fact, I am not sure about it but I do about the fact that when the squadron attack it is allowed to attack squadrons not engaged with.

I can't reply with a quote cause I don't hace the rules here but I bet that somewhere there is something like "you can shoot non-engaged-with squadrons even if you are actually engaged with other squadrons". Maybe the fact, I am not sure about it but I do about the fact that when the squadron attack it is allowed to attack squadrons not engaged with.

We had this come up in our game and based on the engagement rules in the RRG I ruled that an engaged snipe squadron can fire at an enemy squadron at distance 2 using snipe. Reason being, the engagement rules in the RRG state that an engaged squadron cannot move and must attack a squadron if possible, but they do not specify that you must attack an engaged squadron or a squadron at distance one.

I can't reply with a quote cause I don't hace the rules here but I bet that somewhere there is something like "you can shoot non-engaged-with squadrons even if you are actually engaged with other squadrons". Maybe the fact, I am not sure about it but I do about the fact that when the squadron attack it is allowed to attack squadrons not engaged with.

We had this come up in our game and based on the engagement rules in the RRG I ruled that an engaged snipe squadron can fire at an enemy squadron at distance 2 using snipe. Reason being, the engagement rules in the RRG state that an engaged squadron cannot move and must attack a squadron if possible, but they do not specify that you must attack an engaged squadron or a squadron at distance one.

so we discussed it at regionals few weeks ago in Atlanta, GA... we all seem to agree that the RRs page 6 states

When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron if possible rather than an enemy ship.

but, we all agreed this was written without Snipe in mind of course ... so basically you would have to attack the engaged squadron before being able to snipe the one at range 2. there is that statement in the FAQ about being able to attack an obstructed squadron over one that is not obstructed, but we are not talking about obstructed here we talking specifically on having to attack engaged squadrons.

if we remove the "rather than an enemy ship" it still says you must attack an "engaged" squadron first.

if we remove the "rather than an enemy ship" it still says you must attack an "engaged" squadron first.

So what you're saying is, creative editing can make the rules say pretty much anything you want.

• A squadron does not engage ships or friendly squadrons.

If line of sight is traced through a hull zone on the defender that is not the defending zone , the attacker does not have line of sight and must choose another target.

Discarded upgrade cards do not count toward a player’s score unless they are equipped to a destroyed ship.

You can't just rewrite the rules to make them say whatever you want them to say, dude.

no you are saying i am ...you are misunderstanding my example. i'm just saying it clearly says "When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron" , that is original statement from RR, then "if possible rather than an enemy ship" .. that was when the RR was written long before Snipe was introduced. meaning if I (a squadron) was engaged with a squadron at distance 1 and a ship, i would have to attack the engaged squad over the ship because i must always attack a squadron i am engaged with.

fast forward to Snipe now... if i have a squadron with snipe at distance 1 of a squadron (Xwing) and another squadron (Xwing) at distance 2 , i cannot snipe the Xwing at distance 2 because i am engaged with the squad at distance 1 first.

no you are saying i am ...you are misunderstanding my example. i'm just saying it clearly says "When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron" , that is original statement from RR, then "if possible rather than an enemy ship" .. that was when the RR was written long before Snipe was introduced. meaning if I (a squadron) was engaged with a squadron at distance 1 and a ship, i would have to attack the engaged squad over the ship because i must always attack a squadron i am engaged with.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that, while the RRG was written before Snipe was introduced , it is also true that Snipe was written with the RRG as-written in mind . If the game designers had intended for Snipe to interact with engagement as you describe, they could have included that caveat in the Snipe rule.

For reference:

You can attack squadrons at distance 2 with an anti-squadron armament of 3 blue dice. This attack ignores the Counter keyword.

In fact, you can see that Snipe specifically addresses an existing rule-- Counter --but fails to mention any special interaction with engagement.

Introducing your proposed functionality would have been as simple as prepending "If you are unengaged..." to the beginning of the Snipe rule. But it's not there, so there is no support for it. We can argue RAI until we're blue in the face--and you could even be right about the designers' intent--but until and unless there is an FAQ supporting that intent, there's really no discussion to be had from a rules standpoint.

still IMO the RR is pretty clear that you must attack engaged squadrons first that are within distance 1 of you, so you can't snipe (which is still an attack from the snipe squadron) a squadron at distance 2 , until you move away from or kill the squadron at distance 1

it's like saying i can use Rogue to move away from an Xwing at distance 1, to go and kill an Xwing at distance 2, i can't i have to deal with the Xwing at distance 1 first as i am "engaged" with it . I must attacked engaged squadrons first