Since snipe is at range 2, not 1-2, and you measure range from the closest point, does that mean that a target who straddles the range 1-2 boundary cannot be sniped?

(Closest point is range 1, so no snipe)

Or can it be sniped because part of the target is at range 2?

That's as I believe.

But again , this is one where there are concurrent arguments...

The opposing argument is one that takes the definition of "At" as to say "if any part of the component is at, then it is at", means that if any part of the base is at Distance 2, the component is at Distance 2.......

Hopefully, it is one to be clarified by the forthcoming promised FAQ for Wave 5 / Corellian Conflict.

Thanks!

Since snipe is at range 2, not 1-2, and you measure range from the closest point, does that mean that a target who straddles the range 1-2 boundary cannot be sniped?

(Closest point is range 1, so no snipe)

Or can it be sniped because part of the target is at range 2?

You can snipe from any distance within 2. Obviously you would want to use it as far away from the enemy squadron as possible, but you can use snipe if were say, 1.75 distance away from an enemy squadron.

Since snipe is at range 2, not 1-2, and you measure range from the closest point, does that mean that a target who straddles the range 1-2 boundary cannot be sniped?

(Closest point is range 1, so no snipe)

Or can it be sniped because part of the target is at range 2?

You can snipe from any distance within 2. Obviously you would want to use it as far away from the enemy squadron as possible, but you can use snipe if were say, 1.75 distance away from an enemy squadron.

I don't know what you're saying here....

The Distance Bars on the Ruler are not inclusive of each other...

Distance 2 is not from the Base of the Ruler to the line between 2 and 3...

Distance 2 is from the LIne that separates 1 and 2, and 2 and 3...

If you can snipe at *any* distance up to Distance 2... Then Snipe Range would be given as Distance 1-2... With a Minimum and a Maximum...

...

The only point of contention here, is basically - IF you have ANY portion of you at Distance 2, are you at Distance 2? Or does ONLY the Distance you Measure - The Closest Point to Closest Point - count for that Measurement....

Effectively:

How I understand it:

If the Closest Part of the Enemy Base is between the Base of the Ruler up to (and including) the Separating Line between 1 and 2... Then you are at Distance 1... And you cannot Snipe, because the Rule does not say you can Snipe at Distance 1... Only at Distance 2.

If the closest part of the enemy base is anywhere in the '2' section, up to and including the LIne that Separates 2 and 3.... You are at Distance 2 and may Snipe....

...

If you were allowed to measure to the back of a base to ensure a Range 2 shot... Then you will get situations where the worst can be argued - That someone whose closest portion is at Distance 2, but the Furthest portion is in the Distance 3 Band, CANNOT BE SHOT AT BECAUSE THEY WILL CLAIM THEY ARE "AT" DISTANCE 3................

The only way the rule can be applied, and satisfy *ALL* Circumstances, is to ONLY COUNT THE CLOSEST POINT in your Measurement.

If your Closest Point is within Distance 1... you are within Distance 1, and cannot snipe that target... You can shoot it normally, but it'll be able to counter you back...

If your Closest point to your Chosen Target is within Distance 2... Then you may Snipe that Target...

...

Range Measurements (And we're talking about a Range Measurement for an Attack here)... Is measured To, And From, the Closest Points of Squadrons.

To attempt to apply any other measure of ruling is outside of the scope of the rules as presented.

...

That's my view, anyway.

Since snipe is at range 2, not 1-2, and you measure range from the closest point, does that mean that a target who straddles the range 1-2 boundary cannot be sniped?

(Closest point is range 1, so no snipe)

Or can it be sniped because part of the target is at range 2?

You can snipe from any distance within 2. Obviously you would want to use it as far away from the enemy squadron as possible, but you can use snipe if were say, 1.75 distance away from an enemy squadron.

What?

Which part are you having difficulty understanding?

1.75 distance.

That's not a measure.

1.75 distance.

That's not a measure.

No, not on the measuring tool. This is merely an illustration of how snipe is supposed to work. If you're a little closer to an enemy squadron than distance 2, but still beyond 1 you can snipe.

You "can" use Snipe at distance 2, but that is not a requirement, only a limitation. Therefore, additionally, you can Snipe at distance 1, or within distance one.

If you can tell me where on the card it says you must use Snipe at distance 2, I'd be happy to continue this debate.

1.75 distance.

That's not a measure.

No, not on the measuring tool. This is merely an illustration of how snipe is supposed to work. If you're a little closer to an enemy squadron than distance 2, but still beyond 1 you can snipe.

You "can" use Snipe at distance 2, but that is not a requirement, only a limitation. Therefore, additionally, you can Snipe at distance 1, or within distance one.

If you can tell me where on the card it says you must use Snipe at distance 2, I'd be happy to continue this debate.

I don't have to.

Distance 2 does not include Distance 1

1.75 distance.

That's not a measure.

No, not on the measuring tool. This is merely an illustration of how snipe is supposed to work. If you're a little closer to an enemy squadron than distance 2, but still beyond 1 you can snipe.

You "can" use Snipe at distance 2, but that is not a requirement, only a limitation. Therefore, additionally, you can Snipe at distance 1, or within distance one.

If you can tell me where on the card it says you must use Snipe at distance 2, I'd be happy to continue this debate.

I don't have to.

Distance 2 does not include Distance 1

5 miles includes 3 miles but okay Dras.

Let us add some Visual elements:

1.75 distance.

That's not a measure.

No, not on the measuring tool. This is merely an illustration of how snipe is supposed to work. If you're a little closer to an enemy squadron than distance 2, but still beyond 1 you can snipe.

You "can" use Snipe at distance 2, but that is not a requirement, only a limitation. Therefore, additionally, you can Snipe at distance 1, or within distance one.

If you can tell me where on the card it says you must use Snipe at distance 2, I'd be happy to continue this debate.

I don't have to.

Distance 2 does not include Distance 1

5 miles includes 3 miles but okay Dras.

Not according to the Armada Rulebook


SPECIFICALLY.

This is the Difference between saying "You can do this at Distance 5", and "You can do this at Distance 1-5"

ALMOST EVERY EFFECT we've had so far, has said "1-X"... In the fact that it can be used ANYWHERE along that Distance Set...

But Snipe can ONLY be used at Distance 2. Distance 2. Not Distance 1-2. Distance 2.

It is a Solid, Distinct, Set of Range bands.

Let us add some Visual elements:

1.75 distance.

That's not a measure.

No, not on the measuring tool. This is merely an illustration of how snipe is supposed to work. If you're a little closer to an enemy squadron than distance 2, but still beyond 1 you can snipe.

You "can" use Snipe at distance 2, but that is not a requirement, only a limitation. Therefore, additionally, you can Snipe at distance 1, or within distance one.

If you can tell me where on the card it says you must use Snipe at distance 2, I'd be happy to continue this debate.

I don't have to.

Distance 2 does not include Distance 1

5 miles includes 3 miles but okay Dras.

Not according to the Armada Rulebook

SPECIFICALLY.

This is the Difference between saying "You can do this at Distance 5", and "You can do this at Distance 1-5"

ALMOST EVERY EFFECT we've had so far, has said "1-X"... In the fact that it can be used ANYWHERE along that Distance Set...

But Snipe can ONLY be used at Distance 2. Distance 2. Not Distance 1-2. Distance 2.

It is a Solid, Distinct, Set of Range bands.

You're right, but sometimes you just have to use common sense and basic reading comprehension.

By the way, if you want to take a deeper look at why my interpretation of the rules is correct (and possible a glimpse into the minds of the people who designed snipe at FFG), look no further than the E-Wing squadron.

It has an anti-squad value of 4, but only a Snipe value of 3.

You can choose to Snipe at or within distance 2 to avoid the enemy counter, but you'll of course do less damage. This is evidence that the creators were looking for a way to balance the snipe a bit.

Yes, the interceptor one has Snipe 4, but it also has less hull.

So, TL;DR

You can use snipe at any distance within 2 of an enemy squadron.

Vehemently Disagree.

For Visual Aid:



Figure A:



The Enemy Squadron is at Distance 1. Measuring Closest Point to Closest Point, it is at Distance 1. We may shoot this figure if we are a normal, every day squadron...

Figure B:

When we make our Range Measurement... We find this Figure is at Distance 1.... We may shoot this squadron, if we are a normal, every day squadron... If we have Snipe, we just determined that our distance is Distance 1... "You may shoot at Distance 2" says nothing about shooting at Distance 1, so we cannot do it.

Figure C:



We have determined now, that our Target is at Distance 2... We may snipe this Target... We cannot shoot it normally, as we are not at Distance 1... We are at Distance 2.

Figure D:

We have measured and determined that, the closest point of our Target is at Distance 2... We may snipe this Target... If we assume that Figure B is at Distance 2... Then I WILL ASSUME that Figure D is at Distance 3, and screw you, you cannot shoot at all, because Snipe won't let you shoot at Distance 3 Target....

...

Furthermore, your application of the Difference in Snipe Ratings counts for one of three Types of Squadrons with Snipe upon it. Two Others beyond the Generic (Corran Horn and Sabre Squadron), have Snipes Equal to their Basics.

That is a Minority. Not a Majority. You cannot apply a Majority Rules to a Minority.

...


IF SNIPE WAS GIVEN AS DISTANCE 1-2, I would agree with you.

It is not.

Distance 2 does not include Distance 1, unless specifically stated to include Distance 1, by virtue of the Minimum-Maximum Range Band Ruling.

If Distance 2 was to inherently include Distance 1, then the entire Min-Max Range Rule Section of the Rulebook is Irrelevant, Redundant, and EVERY UPGRADE THAT USES IT IS WRONG ....

I will not apply a rule that flies in the face of rules already presented.

You may continue to disagree with me, if you wish, but you cannot rely on "Common Sense" and "Reading Comprehension", when I am applying the letter of said rule as part of said Reading Comprehension.

If it is intended to be used at Distance 1, then there must be a rule that allows it to be used at Distance 1.

I have shown that no such rule exists.

You may attempt to prove me otherwise - but you must do that - prove -

THE ONLY ARGUMENT that would modify the above, is an application of "AT" meaning if any portion of your Enemy is within Distnace 2, it is at Distance 2...

THAT WOULD MEAN you could Snipe in Figures B, C and D>..

BUT IT WOULD STILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO SNIPE DURING FIGURE A.

That is all.

The visuals definitely helped and I think you may be correct. I haven't played on an actual table in a while (have been using vassal which does not have a stick), and I can see that the second range is less than the first.

My only issue was with this:

"You may shoot at Distance 2" says nothing about shooting at Distance 1, so we cannot do it.

It also does not say you cannot shoot at distance 1 with snipe. So it definitely needs clarification in an FAQ.

Either way, that x-wing paint job is great.

Why are we doing this **** conversation again? I thought we finished this whole "range 1 is not a part of range 2" business because

1. It says in the RRG that each range is defined and separate.

The range ruler has two sides: the range side and the distance side. The range side is divided into three range bands: close, medium, and long. The distance side is divided into five distance bands labeled “1” through “5.” The bottom of the ruler is the edge at the close-range end of the ruler.

• The lines on the ruler that divide two adjacent bands always count as part of the band closest to the bottom of the ruler.

2. Evade has 2 functions, and 1 can be used at long range, the other at medium.

At long range, the defender cancels one attack die of its choice. At medium range, it chooses one attack die to be rerolled. At close range or distance 1, this token has no effect.

So you can only use Snipe when you measure, which is closest to closest points, and the target is beyond range 1, but not beyond range 2.

The moment you says range 1 is included in range 2, you invalidate a whole slew of cards that specifically give a range to be used. And more importantly, it means you can never use Evade. Because the argument becomes

"I measure long range and shoot you, but since close range is included in long range, you don't get to use Evade."

Which we know is just wrong. Long range is a distinct portion of the range ruler and is not a part of close or medium range.

Ard and DA were there for this crazy argument, so hopefully they can pop in and explain their thoughts.

RRG:

At: If any portion of a hull zone, base, or token is inside a specified band, that component is at that band.

So if ANY part of the enemy squad is inside the 2 band it's a viable target for snipe.

That it's also at distance 1 or 3 doesn't matter, no?

You measure attack range closest to closest.

Ah...so if you're at 1, you're actually no longer at 2, because it's the closest band that counts?

So if any part of the base is at 1, you can't snipe.

That kind of makes sense. At distance 1 you're engaged, so no sniping.

Good to have that cleared up.

Ah...so if you're at 1, you're actually no longer at 2, because it's the closest band that counts?

So if any part of the base is at 1, you can't snipe.

That kind of makes sense. At distance 1 you're engaged, so no sniping.

Good to have that cleared up.

Or if a Glad is shooting a CR90, and half of the hull zone is at close and the other half is at medium, you don't get to Evade because the the rule you posted earlier states the entire component is considered to be at close.

You may continue to disagree with me, if you wish, but you cannot rely on "Common Sense" and "Reading Comprehension", when I am applying the letter of said rule as part of said Reading Comprehension.

Whole lot of this "I'm using common sense and you're not" thing getting thrown around here recently when people don't like RAW but don't have counter-arguments...

Why are we doing this **** conversation again? I thought we finished this whole "range 1 is not a part of range 2" business because

1. It says in the RRG that each range is defined and separate.

The range ruler has two sides: the range side and the distance side. The range side is divided into three range bands: close, medium, and long. The distance side is divided into five distance bands labeled “1” through “5.” The bottom of the ruler is the edge at the close-range end of the ruler.

• The lines on the ruler that divide two adjacent bands always count as part of the band closest to the bottom of the ruler.

2. Evade has 2 functions, and 1 can be used at long range, the other at medium.

At long range, the defender cancels one attack die of its choice. At medium range, it chooses one attack die to be rerolled. At close range or distance 1, this token has no effect.

So you can only use Snipe when you measure, which is closest to closest points, and the target is beyond range 1, but not beyond range 2.

The moment you says range 1 is included in range 2, you invalidate a whole slew of cards that specifically give a range to be used. And more importantly, it means you can never use Evade. Because the argument becomes

"I measure long range and shoot you, but since close range is included in long range, you don't get to use Evade."

Which we know is just wrong. Long range is a distinct portion of the range ruler and is not a part of close or medium range.

Ard and DA were there for this crazy argument, so hopefully they can pop in and explain their thoughts.

Thanks! I'm reading through these knowing I used to be against Dras on this until I read one case... What was it?!

Evade! Thanks for reminding me.

The Evade description makes it pretty clear.

1.75 distance.

That's not a measure.

No, not on the measuring tool. This is merely an illustration of how snipe is supposed to work. If you're a little closer to an enemy squadron than distance 2, but still beyond 1 you can snipe.

You "can" use Snipe at distance 2, but that is not a requirement, only a limitation. Therefore, additionally, you can Snipe at distance 1, or within distance one.

If you can tell me where on the card it says you must use Snipe at distance 2, I'd be happy to continue this debate.

Now to a much simpler question:

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'll ask anyway to have confirmation

Does Snipe benefit from Flight Controllers i.e. Snipe 4 for E-Wings if activated by Flight Controllers?

It's an attack so it should work, right?

Now to a much simpler question:

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'll ask anyway to have confirmation

Does Snipe benefit from Flight Controllers i.e. Snipe 4 for E-Wings if activated by Flight Controllers?

It's an attack so it should work, right?

Heh that's not a simpler question. That sparked like a 9 page thread. I say yes, others say no.

Wording is consistent to support that you get the buff because they are both anti-squad attacks.