Hello everyone !

I've started playing around with V3, made a couple of test fights and was wondering:

Has it happened to you to kill or make unconscious an opponent in a single blow, not using the henchmen rules ?

Even if it was rare, it used to happen in V1 and V2 and I wonder if it can happen in V3 too !

Very doubtful.

Assuming an "average" human with T3. That will be 12 Wounds to start.

A single hit would need to cause 13 Wounds (after To, so 16 Wounds total, assuming no soak), as well as 3 Critical Hits (assuming the target didn't already have lingering criticals). 3 criticals in a single hit is pretty tough to do, let alone with 16+ Wounds. Usually, boons cause either additional damage OR criticals (not both), and it usually takes boons to pump the damage up to 16+.

It theoretically could happen, but is extremely rare. Now, should the PC have any unhealed critical wounds, then it becomes more likely since that not only reduces the Wounds needed to be inflicted, but the Criticals that need to be caused.

While I like a grim combat system, I find it largely unrealistc for someone to kill an opponent on the FIRST blow of an encounter (without there being some MASSIVE disparity in size/strength/etc.) A powerful fighter killing an unarmed, unaware peasant - sure. But if the combatants are aware of each other, I think it unlikely.

What I do like, and I think this new version does well, is allow two things:

• Massive blows that debilitate their opponents or reduce their fighting effectiveness
• Lowly monster types (goblins) to kill multi-career characters (the threat of passing out and being killed is always present no matter the foe).

A Chaos Warrior has a base 12 melee damage and does +2 damage on a Brutal Assault (their basic attack) with two successes. Considering that they are R3 and have an extra fortune die on their roll, the odds are pretty good that they will get two successes. They'll do a crit with 2 boons as well, so best case they do 14 damage and cause a crit. A starting Elf with a T3 has a wound threshold of 11, so while not downed by the single hit, they only need to suffer a single wound to be knocked unconscious and have another wound converted to a crit. A T2 Elf would be knocked unconscious and convert a crit from the single blow, but that still wouldn't kill them unless they had a crit already from previous combats since crits has to exceed T to be killed. The other heavy hitters, Giants and Rat Ogres, have similar results. They may be able to put you down quickly, but won't kill you unless you had carry over crits. Good thing too since there are no Fate Points to cheat death with in this system.

an optimized warrior character with two morningstars and double strike easy cause 17 dmg in ONE STRIKE, this would slay a commoner with t3 on the spot

Yeah, I was responding more from the GM side in that it's not impossible to drop a PC in one hit, but it is unlikely to kill a PC with one hit, not for a PC to one shot a GM controlled foe.

Although the rules don't say that when an enemy exceeds its wound threshold that it is dead, only that it is defeated. So a GM can have a former big bad make a return appearance. You'll probably can't do this too often since after the first time, the PCs will go around after every combat is over and ensure that all the foes are really dead by issuing a coup de grâce. Thereafter, you have to imply that they were somehow mistaken. Then they'll start wanting to burn the bodies just to be sure.

better follow the rule of the movie zombieland, rule number 2, always double tap hehe

For your consideration

I would rather assume that typical human is 3 wound threshold because typical representative would be henchmen and not the PC or NPC. So, combat is very deadly with that in mind. Dagger blow and you defeat him.

Then I would also consider that even typical but warrior is often T4. You need 9 wound to defeat him.

bjornandersen said:

I figure that one.

BTW, in general an unarmored guy can be killed with a single blow, even by a waker, smaller adversary.

bjornandersen said:

Hmm, I would say he is most likely (in the real world) to kill himself, as Morningstars would be nigh-impossible to efficently dual wield. This is one of those places where common sense would trump game rules, I wouldn't allow it.

T

turinmacleod said:

One of the things I really like about this system is that you can always choose to add something to either increase the difficulty or danger of an action if you feel it's appropriate.

If a character wielding 2 morningstars tries double strike you could tell him that on a Chaos Star (or 2 banes if you want) he hits himself with one of them for *weapon* damage or something - thus saying yes to the action but punishing him if his crazyness fails (in addition you could also add another purple die to the check).

turinmacleod said:

I think I'd allow it, if he were a Pit Fighter, in the spirit of this guy:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k259/cardheros6wo6/Propainted/Gallery%20figures/PitFighter.jpg

Maybe add 'Bane Bane: You take one wound.'

Hum in real world morningstar is just like a mace with spikes not like one handed flails http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_%28weapon%29

bjornandersen: Godendag! *WHACK!*

Dual-wielding Flails/Morningstars... I'd add misfortune dice to that just on general principle.

I agree that one shot deaths should be rare, but IMO they should happen once in a while. I don't intend to use the henchmen rules very often (only in crowd type situations), so it's the regular NPCs that interest me the most. V1 and V2 had explosive damage potential with UF.

V3 has combat actions with superior punch, and higher damage done on average when a blow lands. But it seems to me that the rare but possible event that one stray arrow or a lucky shot will strike someone where it really hurts (the eye, jugular, kidneys...) and take him out and/or kill him outright is part of a Grim Fantasy setting.

A French King, I think it was Henry III was killed in a joust when a jousting lance glanced off his shield into his eyeslits and fatally wounded him. In many fantasy stories or movies, characters are hit by a lucky blow, one last arrow loosed by a fleeing enemy, etc... and die tragically. I find it a loss for the setting that it isn't possible in V3. (I doesn't seem possible when I read your experience of the rules)

I'll have to find a houserule for that...

The trigger could be something as simple as a comet with zero negative results to your roll. Or untie the comet (which would require the attacker be trained in the skill) and add some other trigger e.g. min. three successes, + no negatives, or crit severities on one hit exceed toughness + soak, etc. etc.

bjornandersen said:

In this case Wikiepedia is playing pretty fast and lose with a matter where there actually is not a consensus among Historians (and certainly no consensus among Sources). There are plenty of Primery Sources showing the name Morning Star being applied to chain based weapons. (Which to be fair, the Wiki article does mention one of.) The only real thing that seemed to matter to people was that the weapon should be spiky.