9 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:Edit: I'm still confused by this "clarification". Does it mean "After all squadrons are placed" or "After each squadron is placed"?
I have the same doubt, each time I re-read it I understand it a different way
Rapid Launch Bays: Can fighters placed in this way attack?
The FAQ really reads like they were trying to have it both teamOrange and teamPurple and what they needed to do was pick one. This is a total failure to find a "third" way as well.
If you never play with the card you never need the answer.
The FAQ for RLB states "After the squadrons are placed..." That to me means you place as many squadrons you want to (up to the Squadron Value and the number that were set aside) before you can "activate them" one at a time.
13 minutes ago, Fraggle_Rock said:The FAQ for RLB states "After the squadrons are placed..." That to me means you place as many squadrons you want to (up to the Squadron Value and the number that were set aside) before you can "activate them" one at a time.
So I have to place all the squads I want to put on the board FIRST. How many squadrons would I get to shoot with? How many of those would also get to move? As asked I can place three squads from my bay and activate three OTHER squads?
3 minutes ago, Frimmel said:So I have to place all the squads I want to put on the board FIRST. How many squadrons would I get to shoot with? How many of those would also get to move? As asked I can place three squads from my bay and activate three OTHER squads?
I don't know, but it
feels
like double Dipping, because its freaking
awesome
if you can, better than almost any other suggestion..
so, did they errata out the word "instead"?
because it still sounds like you place squadrons instead of activating them. You just have to place all the ones you want to activate first, before you can activate any.
(edit: and these placements are instead of activating)
Edited by thecolourredHere's my read, of what I'm calling "Team Oranple."
My VSD has a squadron value of 3. I set aside 3 T/F. I field 3 T/I. (just to keep things simple)
During the game, I give a squadron command. I chose to place 3 T/F on the board, but they are NOT activated. I have not yet consumed any of my squadron activations. At this time, I may activate 3 squadrons.
If I choose to activate my T/I, then that activation proceeds as usual. My T/F can be activated later, or move during the Squadron phase.
If I choose to activate my T/F, then they may shoot, but not move.
Anyone disagree with this sequence? Honestly, I think it's a great compromise, and makes the card better than either option alone would make it.
24 minutes ago, thecolourred said:so, did they errata out the word "instead"?
because it still sounds like you place squadrons instead of activating them. You just have to place all the ones you want to activate first, before you can activate any.
(edit: and these placements are instead of activating)
No errata. Just "clarification".
Posted in the General Forum also...
Here is how I am reading it for clarification purposes to my arguments. Let me know if you disagree:
Assume you have a Pelta-class Command Ship - Squadron Value of 3 - with Rapid Launch Bays (RLB). 2 A-wing Squadrons have been set aside before deployment.
Turn 4 comes around (Orange "Besh" face up on initiative token) and there are two (2) X-Wing Squadrons within medium range of the Pelta.
Rebel player decides to activate the Pelta revealing a "Squadron" command on his dial electing to use the Dial.
This would normally allow 3 squadrons within range to activate one at a time. These squadrons can both move and shoot.
RLB FAQ states: "When a ship with this card equipped resolves a Squadron command, it can place its set-aside squadrons up to the number is would activate during that squadron command."
Therefore: As a Squadron Command is being resolved, the Pelta can place up to 3 of its set-aside squadrons (only 2 are set-aside) during the resolution of the squadron command.
In this scenario, the Rebel player elects to place both of the set aside A-wing Squadrons within distance 1 of the Pelta. These squadrons are placed with the Orange ("Besh") indicator showing. Both Squadrons need to be placed before anything else happens. "After the squadrons are placed, they can be activated (one at a time) as part of that squadron command, but cannot move.
The first A-Wing squadron fires at a nearby TIE Fighter destroying it. This A-wing may not move (contrary to using the Squadron command, as mentioned on the RLB card). This Squadron's activation slider is now set to Blue ("Aurek").
The second A-Wing squadron has no target and is not allowed to move. It stays where it is with the activation slider set to Orange ("Besh").
One of the X-Wing Squadrons is then moved to engage a different squadron and fires at it causing damage. The activation slider is set to Blue ("Aurek").
This concludes the Squadron Command. I believe that although the 2nd A-Wing squadron was not "activated" that the placement of it (launch) counted against the number of squadrons able to be activated by the command. Thusly, the 2nd X-Wing squadron is unactivated and hanging out in space for a different ship to activate it or the Squadron phase to occur.
I would accept an argument that the A-wing Squadron that was placed but did not shoot may need to have it's slider moved to Blue. I do not think that is the case.
I would also argue that the 2nd unactivated X-Wing would not be allowed to activate unless the Pelta had a squadron command token or only "launched" 1 A-wing squadron instead of 2.
11 minutes ago, JgzMan said:Here's my read, of what I'm calling "Team Oranple."
My VSD has a squadron value of 3. I set aside 3 T/F. I field 3 T/I. (just to keep things simple)
During the game, I give a squadron command. I chose to place 3 T/F on the board, but they are NOT activated. I have not yet consumed any of my squadron activations. At this time, I may activate 3 squadrons.
If I choose to activate my T/I, then that activation proceeds as usual. My T/F can be activated later, or move during the Squadron phase.
If I choose to activate my T/F, then they may shoot, but not move.
Anyone disagree with this sequence? Honestly, I think it's a great compromise, and makes the card better than either option alone would make it.
I would accept that as a way to resolve the thing. It is not clear to me that is what the FAQ says. I'm teamOrange but teamPurple is fine as is teamOranple. It just doesn't seem to me the FAQ clearly states it is any of them. The only thing it seems to make clear is that you place all the squads you intend to place before any shooting or activating.
17 minutes ago, Frimmel said:I would accept that as a way to resolve the thing. It is not clear to me that is what the FAQ says. I'm teamOrange but teamPurple is fine as is teamOranple. It just doesn't seem to me the FAQ clearly states it is any of them. The only thing it seems to make clear is that you place all the squads you intend to place before any shooting or activating.
but the RLB CARD says you place squads instead of activating them. the FAQ clarifies that they are not activated when you place them (since you have to activate after you place any squads). The FAQ wording of "When a ship with this card equipped resolves a O command, it can place its set-aside squadrons up to the number it would activate during that O command. " doesn't overwrite the wording of:
"O : For each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1."
@thecolourred , could you clarify your stance for me with an example? I am trying to understand if functionally we are on similar pages, or if not an alternative point of view may change my mind in my own perception.
Ideally, I would like to stick to the example of a Pelta with 2 A-wing Squads "set-aside" and 2 X-wing Squads within Medium range.
Thank you.
Yes but the did a clarification that state RLB allow you activate those placed squadrons.
Right now you can activate squadrons normally.
You can also place set aside squadrons and activate them.
That instead just says that you may RLB instead of activating squadrons normally.
Yes it is not an errata but it is clear that we have " O: For each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1 and you may activate them (one at time) "
In other words, when you resolve a squadron command you can activate a squadron at short-medium range or place a set aside squadron that you can activate instead.
10 minutes ago, Fraggle_Rock said:@thecolourred , could you clarify your stance for me with an example? I am trying to understand if functionally we are on similar pages, or if not an alternative point of view may change my mind in my own perception.
Ideally, I would like to stick to the example of a Pelta with 2 A-wing Squads "set-aside" and 2 X-wing Squads within Medium range.
Thank you.
Pelta activates, reveals squadron command.
(squadron activations from the Pelta card: 3)
Per the FAQ: it has to decide how many squads it will deploy at this moment. It chooses 2.
Per the CARD: it can place these squadrons instead of activating those squadrons
(Squadron activations now at 1)
AA are placed on the table
Per the FAQ: now, after all squadrons are placed, you can choose to activate any squadrons with however many squadron activations I have left.
At this point, I can choose to activate 1 X, or 1 A. Per the FAQ: the A can shoot but it cannot move. The X can do whatever it pleases.
(Edit: Squadron activations now at 0)
Edited by thecolourred14 minutes ago, thecolourred said:Pelta activates, reveals squadron command.
(squadron activations from the Pelta card: 3)
Per the FAQ: it has to decide how many squads it will deploy at this moment. It chooses 2.
Per the CARD: it can place these squadrons instead of activating those squadrons
(Squadron activations now at 1)
AA are placed on the table
Per the FAQ: now, after all squadrons are placed, you can choose to activate any squadrons with however many squadron activations I have left.
At this point, I can choose to activate 1 X, or 1 A. Per the FAQ: the A can shoot but it cannot move. The X can do whatever it pleases.
(Edit: Squadron activations now at 0)
Ah, this helps me understand your point. Further question: are the A-wing squadrons shown as activated when placed? I believe your reasoning says no, but I would like to confirm.
If this is the case, then the question that we have differing opinions on is as follows: If you activate a placed squadron, does this count against the number of "squadron activations" during the "squadron command?"
Again, I'm looking to understand the differences between our views on this topic to help me figure this out.
1 hour ago, Frimmel said:I would accept that as a way to resolve the thing. It is not clear to me that is what the FAQ says. I'm teamOrange but teamPurple is fine as is teamOranple. It just doesn't seem to me the FAQ clearly states it is any of them. The only thing it seems to make clear is that you place all the squads you intend to place before any shooting or activating.
As a former member of Team Purple, it seems pretty clear that team orange (placement = activation) is wrong, and that team purple (placement takes the place of activation) is also wrong.
Much to my amusement, the clarification seems to let us play it either way.
28 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:In other words, when you resolve a squadron command you can activate a squadron at short-medium range or place a set aside squadron that you can activate instead.
I disagree. The FAQ makes it clear, at least to me, that you may place squadrons, AND you may activate squadrons. The placing does not consume the activation. The word "instead" is functionally struck out.
13 minutes ago, thecolourred said:Pelta activates, reveals squadron command.
(squadron activations from the Pelta card: 3)
Per the FAQ: it has to decide how many squads it will deploy at this moment. It chooses 2.
Per the CARD: it can place these squadrons instead of activating those squadrons
(Squadron activations now at 1)
AA are placed on the table
Per the FAQ: now, after all squadrons are placed, you can choose to activate any squadrons with however many squadron activations I have left.
At this point, I can choose to activate 1 X, or 1 A. Per the FAQ: the A can shoot but it cannot move. The X can do whatever it pleases.
(Edit: Squadron activations now at 0)
I don't agree with that interpretation.
The exact wording in the FAQ is "When a ship with this card equipped resolves a O command, it can place its set-aside squadrons up to the number it would activate during that O command "
So it shouldbe:
-I reveal my command and it's a squadron command
-I would activate the 3 squadrons my Pelta allows me
-I decide to use RLB so instead of activating 3 squadrons already on the table I place 3 squadrons set aside.
I cannot say that with that command I would activate 2 with RLB and 1 normal as I would be breaking the "it can place its set-aside squadrons up to the number it would activate during that O command " part.
1 minute ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:I cannot say that with that command I would activate 2 with RLB and 1 normal as I would be breaking the "it can place its set-aside squadrons up to the number it would activate during that O command " part.
The FAQ says "After the squadrons are placed, they can be activated (one at a time) as part of that O command, but cannot move." - I can see how that might mean that, optionaly, placing the squadron can be activating it, but it seems very much to me as though you can place squadrons up to your squadron activations, then you may activate squadrons up to your squadron activations. Specificaly, the phrase "as part of that command" reminds me that the RLB action takes place IN ADDITION TO the normal resolution of the command, and does not replace it.
4 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:I don't agree with that interpretation.
The exact wording in the FAQ is "When a ship with this card equipped resolves a O command, it can place its set-aside squadrons up to the number it would activate during that O command "
So it shouldbe:
-I reveal my command and it's a squadron command
-I would activate the 3 squadrons my Pelta allows me
-I decide to use RLB so instead of activating 3 squadrons already on the table I place 3 squadrons set aside.I cannot say that with that command I would activate 2 with RLB and 1 normal as I would be breaking the "it can place its set-aside squadrons up to the number it would activate during that O command " part.
Interesting interpretation, one that I did think about. Would you help me consider this as a way to look at this...
Using RLB only allows you to "place" (ie. launch) the set-aside squadrons. If you chose to "activate" these placed squadrons, you may shoot with them.
Question: If you do not shoot with the placed squads, are they set as activated?
Please note I disagree with this concept, but I'm trying to formulate a general question / answer... Any help you can provide would be most useful and appreciated.
It says "can" activate, not "must" activate, if they are placed. So the argument is that Placing them takes, for lack of a better term, a Point of your Squadron Activation, and as part of that, you may activate them immediately. But you don't have to.
But if you don't, they're still costing you a squadron command point, either way.
For Example. I have a Pelta with Squad 3 and RLBs.
In the Bays I have Keyan, Dagger, and a VCX.
I drop all 3 of them right by an enemy, but happen to also be engaged by enemy Fighters.
So I only choose to activate Dagger and the VCX, and of course, shoot at the enemy fighters that are engaging me, leaaving Keyan Unoutched. Now, I've placed 3 Squadrons, and used my Squadron 3 to do so - but only Dagger and the VCX activated.
... because my next ship Activation is Yavaris, and I'm going to use the first point of its Squadron Command to Fly Jan in there, and then the Second point of its squadron command as a Relay to Keyan to Double-Tap at the enemy Ship.......
7 minutes ago, JgzMan said:As a former member of Team Purple, it seems pretty clear that team orange (placement = activation) is wrong, and that team purple (placement takes the place of activation) is also wrong.
Much to my amusement, the clarification seems to let us play it either way.
I disagree. The FAQ makes it clear, at least to me, that you may place squadrons, AND you may activate squadrons. The placing does not consume the activation. The word "instead" is functionally struck out.
Not sure where we disagree. Maybe my fault writing or reading English.
What I understand (and it will depend on what wiser people said).
- You can activate normally.
- You can place and not activate.
- You can place and activate.
- You can place (and activate) x and activate normally y
- You cannot place use all your value to place and then use all your value to activate others normally. Cause instead.
For each squadron you would activate you choose. You may activate OR place (and activate if you want). Instead prevent you from for each squadron yo would activate you may activate one and place another.
1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:Now, I've placed 3 Squadrons, and used my Squadron 3 to do so
This is where I disagree. The phrase "as part of that command" reminds me that the RLB action takes place IN ADDITION TO the normal resolution of the command, and does not replace it.
5 minutes ago, Fraggle_Rock said:Interesting interpretation, one that I did think about. Would you help me consider this as a way to look at this...
Using RLB only allows you to "place" (ie. launch) the set-aside squadrons. If you chose to "activate" these placed squadrons, you may shoot with them.
Question: If you do not shoot with the placed squads, are they set as activated?Please note I disagree with this concept, but I'm trying to formulate a general question / answer... Any help you can provide would be most useful and appreciated.
No, as Drasnighta said just now, it says they "can" activate but not "must".
So I think his explanation is exactly how it is interpreted by the wording of the FAQ. I don't like it very much being that way (I think they all should be activated or not), but for now I think is how it works