If your ship explode before the deployment of your inboard squadrons guess what... Kabooooom! They are gone.

I read the card.

Where does it say that on the card?

...

That's the Hazard of this Card.

It says a lot of things.... But it tells us very little.

Dras, you are right on the fact that it's not write anywhere what just happen when your ship is destroyed and your squadron still inside... but I think (and that only my point of view) once again, the use of commun sense should be the answer here.

What do you think could happen to aircrafts aboard a aircraft carrier if that last one is destroyed or sink before those aircraft get airborn? I know in the SWU there is the Force and some inexplicable thing, but I don't think squadron aboard a ship who explosed should still alive. Maybe FFG judge that it was not necessery to mention it. Maybe it's because there was not enough space on the card to write it this way, Maybe it's a mistake because some person could still have a doubt about it, but I still thinking those squadrons must be take as destroyed too.

You are taking the chance to keep them not deployed at the start of the game, live with your decision. It can pay alot... and it could cost you alot too

That's why I love this game that much, you have to take hard decision that will have good or bad effect.

I'm not saying I disagree.

I'm saying that the card doesn't say it, and in fact, the only place where we can reference what happens when squadrons are designated as 'off board' and don't get placed 'on board' by end of game ..... Has other repercussions for this card if we view the rules in their entirety.

There is someone on the Xwing forums with a signature "do what the card says, not what the card doesn't say". That's been my thinking on this card.

In the rules reference it states that upgrade cards that specify "you" always refers to the ship the card is equiped to. I think I'm now making assumptions that upgrade cards that refer to an activation are always referring to the ships activation the card is equipped to.

There is assumptions on both sides, so its a mess.

Dras, as for what happens to the squadrons set aside, they are set aside next to that ship card. How do they hit the battlefield otherwise?

It is like using Hyperspace Assault and forgetting to bring on the ship in hyperspace, it is free points to the opponent.

Dras, as for what happens to the squadrons set aside, they are set aside next to that ship card. How do they hit the battlefield otherwise?

It is like using Hyperspace Assault and forgetting to bring on the ship in hyperspace, it is free points to the opponent.

And I am not disputing that.

But unless you reference Hyperspace assault - there is nothing that *TELLS YOU*

Rules rely on that. You can't make assumptions, or suppositions. You have to go by what the Rules TELL YOU .

Dras, as for what happens to the squadrons set aside, they are set aside next to that ship card. How do they hit the battlefield otherwise?

It is like using Hyperspace Assault and forgetting to bring on the ship in hyperspace, it is free points to the opponent.

And I am not disputing that.

But unless you reference Hyperspace assault - there is nothing that *TELLS YOU*

Rules rely on that. You can't make assumptions, or suppositions. You have to go by what the Rules TELL YOU .

Other than the fact that they are set aside next to that ship to begin with. So the precedent is they are off the board and have no way to be deployed.

Dras, as for what happens to the squadrons set aside, they are set aside next to that ship card. How do they hit the battlefield otherwise?

It is like using Hyperspace Assault and forgetting to bring on the ship in hyperspace, it is free points to the opponent.

And I am not disputing that.

But unless you reference Hyperspace assault - there is nothing that *TELLS YOU*

Rules rely on that. You can't make assumptions, or suppositions. You have to go by what the Rules TELL YOU .

Other than the fact that they are set aside next to that ship to begin with. So the precedent is they are off the board and have no way to be deployed.

Which tells us something happens to them.

But do they count as destroyed or not? Nothing tells us that.

Because, I mean, they're not destroyed, right - they were just never deployed... They might not count for points at the end, unless he have something to tell us.

Well Dras, what happens to squadrons you forget to deploy during a game? If I recall, they still count as points for your opponent

Do they?

Where's it say that?

(Honest question - My wife's back in Hospital and I don't have Rulebook access right now... If you're going to state it, quote it, please )

This make me think about Independence which is the only upgrade card, but RLB, that uses "this activation" in its wording. All the others upgrade card that change the squadron activation in some way say "until ITS activation" or just nothing. Could Independence refer to the Independence activation rather than the squadron activation? Of course this would mean nothing or at least not much but as I said, it make me think.

Independently of if RLB activates or not the squadrons placed, the diference between the readings cover other upgrades cards like FCT. If "this activation" refer to the ship's, Independence would cover an eventually upgrade card that allow squadrons to shoot out of its activation.

Other things: everyone pass through the first parragraph of RLB cause it is clear and I agree, but I want point that it is using YOU, so if a fleet has two or more RLB, to differentiate the squadrons carried by one ship or other is important.

If "this activation" refer to the ship's, Independence would cover an eventually upgrade card that allow squadrons to shoot out of its activation.

Adar Tallon

Well forgetting to place a squadron during a game would fall under missed opportunity

Missed Opportunities

Players are expected to follow the game’s rules, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. It is all players’ responsibility to maintain a proper game state, and to ensure that all mandatory abilities and game steps are acknowledged. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he or she cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his or her opponent.

OH!

Perfect example. Precedent set by Hyperspace Assault again. If all your ships are destroyed before the Hyperspace ship enters play, does it count towards the destroyed points cost?

Well forgetting to place a squadron during a game would fall under missed opportunity

Missed Opportunities

Players are expected to follow the game’s rules, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. It is all players’ responsibility to maintain a proper game state, and to ensure that all mandatory abilities and game steps are acknowledged. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he or she cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his or her opponent.

OH!

Perfect example. Precedent set by Hyperspace Assault again. If all your ships are destroyed before the Hyperspace ship enters play, does it count towards the destroyed points cost?

Because:

If you take the reading of Hyperspace Assault as Precedent for what to do the re, then you can also take the precedent for placing squadrons on the battlefield from out-of-play as precedence, which lends creed to the Purple application of the rules (they are placed with their activation slider reading the colour for the turn, and are not activated).

Which is why I've mentioned it earlier in the topic.

Three times.

Without taking that reference, we have no clue what to do. This Card, encapuslated within itself and the Rulebook , does not tell us enough. Simple as that.

You go looking for references elsewhere , you'll find them... But since you have no reference or frame of scope to reference, your options are basically limited to "Take Nothing" or "take it All".

"Take Nothing" gets you nowhere.

"Take it All" gets you to Purple .

Well forgetting to place a squadron during a game would fall under missed opportunity

Missed Opportunities

Players are expected to follow the game’s rules, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. It is all players’ responsibility to maintain a proper game state, and to ensure that all mandatory abilities and game steps are acknowledged. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he or she cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his or her opponent.

OH!

Perfect example. Precedent set by Hyperspace Assault again. If all your ships are destroyed before the Hyperspace ship enters play, does it count towards the destroyed points cost?

Hmm. Acutally If you doesn't deploy the ship and/or squadrons voluntarily or by mistake and you finished the enemy's fleet before sixth round end, your enemy doen't score the points. The missed oportunities rule doesn't give you points, it just prevent to do things retroactively. To score points we just have the Hyperspace Assault faq and is funny it doesn't cover the situation I said.

Well forgetting to place a squadron during a game would fall under missed opportunity

Missed Opportunities

Players are expected to follow the game’s rules, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. It is all players’ responsibility to maintain a proper game state, and to ensure that all mandatory abilities and game steps are acknowledged. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he or she cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his or her opponent.

OH!

Perfect example. Precedent set by Hyperspace Assault again. If all your ships are destroyed before the Hyperspace ship enters play, does it count towards the destroyed points cost?

Hmm. Acutally If you doesn't deploy the ship and/or squadrons voluntarily or by mistake and you finished the enemy's fleet before sixth round end, your enemy doen't score the points. The missed oportunities rule doesn't give you points, it just prevent to do things retroactively. To score points we just have the Hyperspace Assault faq and is funny it doesn't cover the situation I said.

If I recall, they are considered destroyed for the purposes of scoring.

Well forgetting to place a squadron during a game would fall under missed opportunity

Missed Opportunities

Players are expected to follow the game’s rules, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. It is all players’ responsibility to maintain a proper game state, and to ensure that all mandatory abilities and game steps are acknowledged. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he or she cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his or her opponent.

OH!

Perfect example. Precedent set by Hyperspace Assault again. If all your ships are destroyed before the Hyperspace ship enters play, does it count towards the destroyed points cost?

Hmm. Acutally If you doesn't deploy the ship and/or squadrons voluntarily or by mistake and you finished the enemy's fleet before sixth round end, your enemy doen't score the points. The missed oportunities rule doesn't give you points, it just prevent to do things retroactively. To score points we just have the Hyperspace Assault faq and is funny it doesn't cover the situation I said.

If I recall, they are considered destroyed for the purposes of scoring.

Do they? I am not asking to bother you. It is honest. Could the judge say that they score even if you can't find a rule anywhere?

I think is obvious that they should but is really obvious? I can imagine a fleet so overwhelming that it doesn't need its hyperspace reinforcements

Well forgetting to place a squadron during a game would fall under missed opportunity

Missed Opportunities

Players are expected to follow the game’s rules, remembering to perform actions and use card effects when indicated. It is all players’ responsibility to maintain a proper game state, and to ensure that all mandatory abilities and game steps are acknowledged. If a player forgets to use an effect during the timing specified by that effect, he or she cannot retroactively use it without the consent of his or her opponent.

OH!

Perfect example. Precedent set by Hyperspace Assault again. If all your ships are destroyed before the Hyperspace ship enters play, does it count towards the destroyed points cost?

Hmm. Acutally If you doesn't deploy the ship and/or squadrons voluntarily or by mistake and you finished the enemy's fleet before sixth round end, your enemy doen't score the points. The missed oportunities rule doesn't give you points, it just prevent to do things retroactively. To score points we just have the Hyperspace Assault faq and is funny it doesn't cover the situation I said.

If I recall, they are considered destroyed for the purposes of scoring.

Do they? I am not asking to bother you. It is honest. Could the judge say that they score even if you can't find a rule anywhere?

I think is obvious that they should but is really obvious? I can imagine a fleet so overwhelming that it doesn't need its hyperspace reinforcements

Well that point they are considered off the board and the card effect is completed

Tabling makes life easier

Just something which doesn't seem to have been talked through in this very long thread:

We have to go by rules as written because words mean what words mean. The double crit turbolaser ruling went with RAW not RAI which ended up with it not doing what the preview article said it would when combined with fire control teams, FFG therefore has form in taking RAW rather than what we think it should say or would make sense thematically.

If we go by rules as written:

Before deploying fleets, you may set aside a number of friendly squadrons up to your squadron value next to your ship card.

Squadron command logo: for each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place one of your set aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation.

Those are the words on the card which means they are the rule in question.

The first bit is pretty clear, you may not deploy some squadrons and put them next to the ship card before deploying your fleet. (Though reading that that doesn't appear to exclude you then deploying said set aside squadrons in the deployment phase should you wish to)

The next bit is when you use a squadron command. This says 'for each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place one of your set aside squadrons within distance 1.' This means that instead of activating a squadron you place it within distance 1 of the ship. This does not say you activate it, in fact it is clear this is instead of an activation. This is not activating the squadron. If a squadron is. It activated, it normally cannot do anything at all until it is activated. There are two exceptions to this, FCT's let you move an unactivated squadron 1, RLB let's you deploy a squadron within 1 of the ship with RLB without activating it. Neither lets you shoot as to shoot with an unactiveated squadron without activating it would need its own card aying it could explicitly happen as it not allowed in normal play.

The second sentence is 'it cannot move this activation'. As the above clause explicitly excludes the squadron from being activated, there is no squadron activation currently, so this has to apply to the ship's activation as it is the only current activation.

If this clause applied to the squadron, it would be meaningless as the squadron does not have an activation.

Just because things seem to be implying things, you cannot assume anything with rules. As soon as you do you start breaking rules and introducing your own.

Ergo currently, strict RAW means purple.

Strict RAW does not say what colour activation the squadron comes in on or what happento the unplaced squadrons when the RLB ship is destroyed. Strict RAW also opens up some exploitable loopholes which I can see which would quickly lose you friends:

1) if you have more than one ship with RLB you can deploy set aside squadrons from any of the ships with RLB, regardless of who they are set aside with.

2) RLB ships can take squadrons which were set aside and then placed in play using RLB within distance 1 of the ship with RLB regardless of where they were on the table before then, then place them within distance 1 of the RalB ship wherever it is now without activating them. Using RLB's to hop squadrons around the table is pretty unlikely to be what was intended, but I can make an argument that you can do this.

3) RLB let's you place hyperspace assaulting squadrons within distance 1 of a ship with RLB.

4) you can bring in all the squadrons you set aside with RLB through hyperspace assault if you are second player and playing that objective.

I can see this post being less helpful than it could be

Just something which doesn't seem to have been talked through in this very long thread:

We have to go by rules as written because words mean what words mean. The double crit turbolaser ruling went with RAW not RAI which ended up with it not doing what the preview article said it would when combined with fire control teams, FFG therefore has form in taking RAW rather than what we think it should say or would make sense thematically.

If we go by rules as written:

Before deploying fleets, you may set aside a number of friendly squadrons up to your squadron value next to your ship card.

Squadron command logo: for each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place one of your set aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation.

Those are the words on the card which means they are the rule in question.

The first bit is pretty clear, you may not deploy some squadrons and put them next to the ship card before deploying your fleet. (Though reading that that doesn't appear to exclude you then deploying said set aside squadrons in the deployment phase should you wish to)

The next bit is when you use a squadron command. This says 'for each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place one of your set aside squadrons within distance 1.' This means that instead of activating a squadron you place it within distance 1 of the ship. This does not say you activate it, in fact it is clear this is instead of an activation. This is not activating the squadron. If a squadron is. It activated, it normally cannot do anything at all until it is activated. There are two exceptions to this, FCT's let you move an unactivated squadron 1, RLB let's you deploy a squadron within 1 of the ship with RLB without activating it. Neither lets you shoot as to shoot with an unactiveated squadron without activating it would need its own card aying it could explicitly happen as it not allowed in normal play.

The second sentence is 'it cannot move this activation'. As the above clause explicitly excludes the squadron from being activated, there is no squadron activation currently, so this has to apply to the ship's activation as it is the only current activation.

If this clause applied to the squadron, it would be meaningless as the squadron does not have an activation.

Just because things seem to be implying things, you cannot assume anything with rules. As soon as you do you start breaking rules and introducing your own.

Ergo currently, strict RAW means purple.

Strict RAW does not say what colour activation the squadron comes in on or what happento the unplaced squadrons when the RLB ship is destroyed. Strict RAW also opens up some exploitable loopholes which I can see which would quickly lose you friends:

1) if you have more than one ship with RLB you can deploy set aside squadrons from any of the ships with RLB, regardless of who they are set aside with.

2) RLB ships can take squadrons which were set aside and then placed in play using RLB within distance 1 of the ship with RLB regardless of where they were on the table before then, then place them within distance 1 of the RalB ship wherever it is now without activating them. Using RLB's to hop squadrons around the table is pretty unlikely to be what was intended, but I can make an argument that you can do this.

3) RLB let's you place hyperspace assaulting squadrons within distance 1 of a ship with RLB.

4) you can bring in all the squadrons you set aside with RLB through hyperspace assault if you are second player and playing that objective.

I can see this post being less helpful than it could be

About use RLB to place squadrons already placed I can't say anything. My English is not the best one to see the difference between "place a squadron that was set aside" and "place a squadron that is aside" with this wording.

EDIT: If the squadron was placed doesn't it means that the squadron is not set aside anymore?

Thank goodness for that, the moral of this story is don't drink and rules lawyer.

Under Purple:

Waited for an ISD to maneuver.

Moved forward and with FC, placed Keyan, Norra and 2 B-Wings on the side-shield of an ISD.

Took next activation (because I'm Rebels with Activation Advantage) with Yavaris, and had Norra and a B-Wing Double Tap, and then when the shields were down, had Keyan Double-Reroll Tap...

All but dropped that ISD from Full Health to 4 hull remaining.

Ah yes. I hear that's a really difficult combo with lots of moving parts. A "best case" scenario if you will.

Well what a read this was.

Honestly it can be a confusing card, if we let it. I can't see how anyone could think "it cannot move this activation." is referring to the ship itself.

Card reads pretty straight forwards.

Usually you can spend a Squadron dial (or token) to activate squadrons (inside your activation range) up to your squadron command value. Squadrons activated this way can both move and shoot and can do so in either order.

Instead you get a new ability

Instead of activating squadrons that are already in play, you can now launch the squadrons you placed on the side of your ship card at the start of the game, you can launch a number of squadrons equal to your command value, so if you have a SC of 4 and you placed 4 squadrons aside at the start of the game, now you can launch them from your RLB, and you place them at up to distance 1 of your ship, this takes the move component of the standard squadron activation away, they cannot move any further this round, but they can shoot at anything they are engaged with, just like the can when they get activated normally, once you have shot with one, you flip its activation, place the next one, shoot with that one, flip its activation and carry on till you have finished launching them.

Otherwise the points people have raised makes the card either pointless, or amazing as you get to not move your ship for an entire round for 6pts.

Good summary, this is how I plan on playing them. And also that any unlaunched squads inside of the destroyed ship (set aside) are also considered destroyed for end game scoring. This may not hold true in a FAQ but right now we just gotta guess.

If your ship explode before the deployment of your inboard squadrons guess what... Kabooooom! They are gone.

I read the card.

Where does it say that on the card?

...

That's the Hazard of this Card.

It says a lot of things.... But it tells us very little.

This is what happens when game designers make the game up "as they go along".

They create more problems than than they fix until they have to release SW:Armada version 2.0.

The established mechanic is that you use a Squadron Command to activate squadrons. With this in mind.....

Team Orange - This fits the established mechanic and gives you the option to activate a squad on the table OR activate an "set aside" squad. It gets "launched" to distance 1 (which is it's movement) and may attack.

Team Purple - Here you are using a Squadron Command not to activate a squadron? This is new and I can't wait for when FFG brings out other uses for the other commands such as a Nav Command not to move or turn your ship or an Engineering Command not to repair damage.

This option is plain rules lawyering and dosen't fit the established command system.

If the FAQ rules in favour of Purple Team then they will be braking core game mechanics and this can only result in one thing.

IMO this should have been in the core rules and not an upgrade but as I have previously said FFG are obviously making the game up as they go.

The next bit is when you use a squadron command. This says 'for each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place one of your set aside squadrons within distance 1.' This means that instead of activating a squadron you place it within distance 1 of the ship.

This is where I disagree; that the "instead" refers to the activation rather than the squadron. The "you would activate with this command" is a just a description of the type of "squadron", not a separate object itself.

There isn't a game term for the activations given by a squadron command like they have with engineering points. Saying "squadron you would activate with this command" is just a long way of saying "squadron points". Since they never defined "squadron points", they had to use a longer description.

Again, the "instead" refers to the object of the activation (a set aside squadron instead of a squadron you would normally activate with this command) rather than the activation itself.