1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Please, READ the thread before.

I came here to argue, not to read.

2 minutes ago, JgzMan said:

I came here to argue, not to read.

Then argue with the first two lines of my post.

12 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

WARNING: if you came here to put your reading/understanding of this card you CAN

BUT

Please, READ the thread before. Even a superficial reading will help. If you are so lazy to read those 18 pages at least read the last one. Maybe you are missing something that was actually shared 5 post above. If 1 page is enough to cause you a stroke please move on and save us from suffer one.

If this was for me, I have read the whole thread, I first posted in it back in mid December, well before you joined the soiree.

12 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

The squad icon does not mean you are activating squads. It means you are allowed to, up to your squad value.

There is this notion that squad command=squad activation and this is not true.

You can burn a nav command/token to trigger ET and not change your speed.

You can burn a repair command/token to trigger Repair Crews.

RLB gives you another option with your squad command.

Also, DA said it would be clearer if the card read what he put. Not that the card is clear.

Semantics?

You can choose to activate squadrons with a Squadron Command, when can you chose to activate squadrons? exactly when and how can you chose to activate squadrons with a command dial/token? is it when you have a command dial or token?

If the answer is : when you chose to resolve a Squadron Command dial/token, then the card is crystal clear.

10 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

If the answer is : when you chose to resolve a Squadron Command dial/token, then the card is crystal clear.

If only you had been here from the begining! You could have came in and saved the day and prevented this 19 page thread!!! If only I had known this was so crystal clear!! What would we do with you?

My point still stands and you have done nothing to refute it. The squad command tells you to do something: activate a squad and you get to move n shoot. RLB gives you another option because it says" "For each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation."

Why don't you go back and read the entire thread? Many of us went over this multiple times, and you're just another person swooping in claiming to use common sense like we didn't already consider how many different ways this card can be read.

9 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

Semantics?

You can choose to activate squadrons with a Squadron Command, when can you chose to activate squadrons? exactly when and how can you chose to activate squadrons with a command dial/token? is it when you have a command dial or token?

If the answer is : when you chose to resolve a Squadron Command dial/token, then the card is crystal clear.

When we work with game concepts semantic is ALL we have cause those concepts are defined in the RRG.

The fact that you use your hand to write here doesn't mean that your hand IS the same that to write here.

I will put here the quote you missed the first time:

From the RRG page 5 "effect use and timing:

- Effects with a command icon as a header, such as
“M:,” can be resolved once while the ship is resolving
the matching command.

We have upgrades with an icon that overwrite the default use of that icon. Repair Crew discards damage cards that is something you can do with your engineering points but doesn't give you a single engineering point what the engineering command actually does. You can't use repair crew and resolv other engineering effects with the points. RLB does exactly the same. You don't activate any squadron with the command cause wording exactly says that you don't do something to do another thing. We know you can activate squadrons with RLB but not because you are resolving an squadron command rather than resolving the RLB effect that we know it activates squadrons cause Mr. Gernes said this to us. The only relation established between the squadron command and the RLB is the number of squadron you could place, but this number could be perfectly other just changing 1 to 2. Then we could place 2 squadron for each squadron we would activate with the command.

In fact there would be possible to find an upgrade that activate squadrons resolving other commands with the icon mechanic. Even this upgrade could be something like "engineering icon: for each engineering point you would spend with this command you may instead place 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation". This theoric upgrade wouldn't let you spend any single engineering point if you resolve it. The same with the actual upgrade that don't allow you to activate any squadron with the squadron command if you choose to resolve the upgrade. You still activating the squadron of course cause the answer was orange and the upgrade let you activate squadrons but due to the upgrade, not the command.

9 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

If this was for me, I have read the whole thread, I first posted in it back in mid December, well before you joined the soiree.

And about this. Yes, I put my post after reading yours but I didn't quote you conscientiously cuase I know everyone can miss something. I just put it cause lately we had people who wrote here like someone was defending the team purple or to assert some facts about the upgrade that don't follow the rules and were clearly refuted (as the icon issue). I really think is a logic way of working to read what was said before in order to achieve a clear and open discussion.

If you really read the whole thread, including this:

I would prefer a deeper explanation to assert this:

without a single quote of the RRG cause as I said (and I am pretty sure I wasn't the first one) what the icon says is clearly established by the RRG and is not "you are activating squadrons". We put examples of upgrades with icons that works both ways. The icon doesn't change the default effect of the command per se. What can change it is the upgrade effect. I will put a list of different upgrades that works with the icon.

Navigate icon.

Egine Techs. While you are resolving a navigate command you can resolve this upgrade. What this upgrade says is that you can resolve a speed 1 maneuver. Nothing more. It doesn't change the command effect so you could change your speed (or not) and your yaw value (or not). You can resolve it with a dial, a token or both.

Navigation Team. While you are resolving a navigate command you can resolve this upgrade. What this upgrade says is that your navigate tokens can change your speed or increase 1 yaw value by 1. You can resolve it with a dial but then you get nothing. You can resolve it with a token but, look! you can't resolve the default navigate token effect AND this upgrade. What this upgrade does is overwirte the navigate token effect. So you can resolve the default effect and change your speed OR resolve the upgrade effect and change your speed or your yaw value. The fact that one of the option of the upgrade effect is the same than the default doesn't matter.

Engineering icon.

Engineering team. While resolving an engineering command you can resolve this upgrade. What it does is to give you an additional point and just that. It stack with the command effect.

Repair Crews. While resolving an engineering command you can resolve this upgrade. If you resolve it you can't spend engineering points so it is overwriting the standar command effect.

Squadron command

Flight Controllers. While resolving a squadron command you can resove this upgrade. It just give an additional blue die to the squadron you are activating with this command.

Boosted Coms. While resolving a squadron command you can resove this upgrade. It overwrite the standar effect or at least a piece. The range is not close-medium anymore if you choose to resolve this upgrade. We usually go through this upgrade cause it doesn't have to be exhasuted and we play as the ship has a new activation range but is not. If you want bother someone you can actually call that he never said he was resolving boosted coms so he couldn't activate squadrons at long range.

RLB. While resolving a squadron command you can resove this upgrade. If you resolve it you can't activate squadrons at close-medium range equal to your squadron value or 1(with a token). If you resolve it you may place as many squadron as you would activate with the squadron command (your squadron value or just 1 if you trigger it with just a token). Look that boosted coms and repair crews have "instead" in their wording as RLB has. That is the reason we needed a clarification and the wordin must be corrected to "and activate them" or something like this.

5 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

If only you had been here from the begining! You could have came in and saved the day and prevented this 19 page thread!!! If only I had known this was so crystal clear!! What would we do with you?

My point still stands and you have done nothing to refute it. The squad command tells you to do something: activate a squad and you get to move n shoot. RLB gives you another option because it says" "For each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation."

Why don't you go back and read the entire thread? Many of us went over this multiple times, and you're just another person swooping in claiming to use common sense like we didn't already consider how many different ways this card can be read.

I have been here, and I have read it all, and my stance has not changed since my first post on this topic.

DiabloAzul said, if the card read : : For each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place and activate 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation."

My argument was IT DOES say exactly that, currently you can only chose to activate or not activate squadrons with a squadron dial/token, nothing else.

The card gives an alternative option for squadron activation, instead of activating ones on the table, which you can move/shoot or shoot, or move, or do nothing at all. You can instead launch the ones set aside, except they do not get a move option, instead they get placed at up to distance one.

Which is what I said back in mid December, perhaps YOU need to reread the thread.

Sorry, I admit that I didn't read the entire thread and maybe I'm jumping in with something that someone already said, but I think the key here is that the card says:
"It cannot move this activation"

To me that indicates that you are already activating the squadrons. If not it would say "it cannot move when it activates this turn" or something like that to indicate that you still have to activate it.

2 hours ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Sorry, I admit that I didn't read the entire thread and maybe I'm jumping in with something that someone already said, but I think the key here is that the card says:
"It cannot move this activation"

To me that indicates that you are already activating the squadrons. If not it would say "it cannot move when it activates this turn" or something like that to indicate that you still have to activate it.

Yes, but "this activation" could also refer to the ship being activated.

I have a suspicion that the card is supposed to indicate that you place, then activate the squadrons. But it doesn't actually state that. And the unclear wording is a huge detriment to this and other cards.

FFG really needs to run some of these upgrades past more people to catch this sort of thing. This should have been caught by several people during the creation and playtesting phases.

OK, I got told to come over here from another thread. After reading this thread, i have come to the conclusion:

team purple is rules as written, and team orange is "instead is defined as 'in addition to'"?

(in case you were wondering, I went and looked this up, since my first language is Texan):

On 2/4/2017 at 11:53 AM, TheEasternKing said:

I have been here, and I have read it all, and my stance has not changed since my first post on this topic.

DiabloAzul said, if the card read : : For each squadron you would activate with this command, you may instead place and activate 1 of your set-aside squadrons within distance 1. It cannot move this activation."

My argument was IT DOES say exactly that, currently you can only chose to activate or not activate squadrons with a squadron dial/token, nothing else.

The card gives an alternative option for squadron activation, instead of activating ones on the table, which you can move/shoot or shoot, or move, or do nothing at all. You can instead launch the ones set aside, except they do not get a move option, instead they get placed at up to distance one.

Which is what I said back in mid December, perhaps YOU need to reread the thread.

the key flaw in your argument is that the underlines "and activate" is NOT on the card, so the squadrons you place are just that: placed on the table.

For reference, we can look at repair crews, which state instead of gaining repair points, you can remove 1 damage card. By your definition, you would remove 1 damage card AND get your repair points. That's wrong.

A good summary for the 19 pages, yes.

So can I attack with squadrons I have placed using RLB that same ship activation? Or do I have to use another ship to make the fighters go pew pew?? Help me, I think all day at work and just one someone to tell me how this card works 83749/7:7-8-9/9;7:89/9'!!!!!!

15 minutes ago, Rettere said:

So can I attack with squadrons I have placed using RLB that same ship activation? Or do I have to use another ship to make the fighters go pew pew?? Help me, I think all day at work and just one someone to tell me how this card works 83749/7:7-8-9/9;7:89/9'!!!!!!

The thing is that until the FAQ is released you'll never know if you're doing it right.

If you ask me, I'll tell you that you place the squadron, it can attack but cannot move and that's its activation this turn.

If you ask someone else, you may get another interpretation, but as I said before, until the FAQ is out we'll never know for sure which interpretation is the right one.

Surely, at least 19 pages were written on the subject of the shape of the Earth-- arguing that it was flat.

1 minute ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Surely, at least 19 pages were written on the subject of the shape of the Earth-- arguing that it was flat.

And of course it is!

1 hour ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Surely, at least 19 pages were written on the subject of the shape of the Earth-- arguing that it was flat.

Only 8, the other 8 argues that it was square.

52 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Only 8, the other 8 argues that it was square.

So both interpretations are wrong. Got it.

7 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

So both interpretations are wrong. Got it.

Of course. This is all just a computer simulation.

Worst card text ever. I gurantee they rewrite it.

They use "instead", meaning squads are placed onto map instead of being activated. Then they say they cant move this activation, which contradicts the instead clause of their activation not happening.

I feel they meant for the placed squads to then be activated, allowing them to fire but not move, but the card text certaintly doesn't say this.

Boy they ***** up this text.

15 hours ago, Thraug said:

Worst card text ever. I gurantee they rewrite it.

They use "instead", meaning squads are placed onto map instead of being activated. Then they say they cant move this activation, which contradicts the instead clause of their activation not happening.

I feel they meant for the placed squads to then be activated, allowing them to fire but not move, but the card text certaintly doesn't say this.

Boy they ***** up this text.

There IS a thing called "ship activation" in the rules reference. try page 11. You also can have more than one squadron activated during a ship activation. And there are upgrades that move squads around, like fighter coordination teams.

Ok, now we have the FAQ but there is something I would like to be sure about:

They clarified that each squadron is activated one at a time but are they placed one at a time? It matters for swarm for example.

3 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Ok, now we have the FAQ but there is something I would like to be sure about:

When a ship with this card equipped resolves a O command, it can place its set-aside squadrons up to the number it would activate during that O command. After the squadrons are placed, they can be activated (one at a time) as part of that O command, but cannot move.

They clarified that each squadron is activated one at a time but are they placed one at a time? It matters for swarm for example.

It would seem that they are placed one at a time, but you don't begin activating them until they have all been placed.

Edit: I'm still confused by this "clarification". Does it mean "After all squadrons are placed" or "After each squadron is placed"?

...and is it really "can", or "must"? If it's "can", and I don't, can I still activate other stuff now, and the placed stuff later?

*head explodes*