New to the forums.

I was just wondering if anyone have thoughts on how well the phantom is doing in the current meta. I have seen some deci/phantom lists doing well, but is that only really skilled players that always have played them? I guess Palpatine is a great asset for Whisper as well as for other imperial aces. Is a Decimator the best palp carrier for Whisper, or is the OGP with another cheap ace still good? (And which ace?)

Is there any hopes for a quite new player wanting to play Whisper competitively?

I used to fly 3 Phantoms, Echo, Whisper and a single Sigma with Stygium, it worked until the U-boat and elevens superiority, so now that meta is dead.

I forsee the Phantom coming back when the TIE Striker is released, it pairs well with the new Lightweight Frame upgrade (yes, we know you miss the ACD, but i think it's worth a try, or just use Stygium), but the main focus is changing the view of the old role that TIE Phantom played. I see it not as a pure ace, but as a heavy hitting platform in terms of pure damage helped with Lightweight Frame, 3 agility is enough good, and the cloaking action is still there in case of need. I want to try a list with Pure Sabacc and Duchess flying with Whisper, it may seem fragile, so it is, but i think it has potential.

We will check it soon, my poor Phantoms are getting dusty in the case.

Whisper is perfectly fine and competitive. The only issue is what folks around you are bringing to the table, because she has a definite weakness when it comes to a large number of ships carrying Twin Laser Turrets. Also, as the Phantom flies differently than any other ship, it's got a higher skill level needed to fly to maximum effectiveness. But that's really just a mix of practice and reading your opponent/the board.

For Palp carrier, I'd suggest Lambda still being key, and you can take a pocket ace (I did well at regionals last year w/ Whisper, Omega Leader, and Palp-Shuttle). Decimators have a lot of weaknesses, several bad matchups, and are also difficult to master... But still certainly viable.

Whisper (like all phantoms) is not easy to use, but still good. Her only bad matchup is Dengaroo (since green dice are practically useless against him) unless you can kill Manaroo quick and keep Dengar off her back.

Whisper (like all phantoms) is not easy to use, but still good. Her only bad matchup is Dengaroo (since green dice are practically useless against him) unless you can kill Manaroo quick and keep Dengar off her back.

(98)

"Whisper" (41) - TIE Phantom

Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Agent Kallus (2), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Delta Squadron Pilot (28) - TIE Defender

TIE/x7 (-2)

Omicron Group Pilot (29) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Emperor Palpatine (8), Emperor Palpatine (8)

I guess you want the initiative bid? If not Mk.II on the defender and electronic baffle on the shuttle might be the way to use the last two points. Or maybe one of them and a 1 point bid?

Whisper (like all phantoms) is not easy to use, but still good. Her only bad matchup is Dengaroo (since green dice are practically useless against him) unless you can kill Manaroo quick and keep Dengar off her back.

Aren't defenders also quite good at that strategy against dengaroo? How about this then:

(98)

"Whisper" (41) - TIE Phantom

Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Agent Kallus (2), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Delta Squadron Pilot (28) - TIE Defender

TIE/x7 (-2)

Omicron Group Pilot (29) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Emperor Palpatine (8), Emperor Palpatine (8)

I guess you want the initiative bid? If not Mk.II on the defender and electronic baffle on the shuttle might be the way to use the last two points. Or maybe one of them and a 1 point bid?

Yeah X-7 defenders are one of the better options against Dengar, simply because of the free evade (can't zuckuss that!)

I wouldn't worry about an initiative bid too much against dengaroo. Many dengar players sit at 97, some at 98 or 99, but never 100. So best case scenario, your 98 bid gives you 50/50 odds of getting the choice. Here's the thing though: I strongly recommend giving initiative to Dengar. You might think that is madness, but shooting first and then cloaking does not actually help Whisper, since those extra 2 green dice are meaningless against zuckuss. You are far better off giving up initiative so that Whisper can barrel roll out of arc, or even better, right out of Dengar's firing range (if possible----if not, take an evade!). If you can trade any one of your ships for Manaroo, you should be able to win, although the ideal trade is your shuttle for Manaroo (since it can't contribute much on offense). The Dengaroo player most likely wants to kill Whisper really bad, so use that knowledge to out-play him (if you can keep Whisper safe in the early part of the game, your chance of winning goes up, even if she isn't able to contribute much offense at first).

Having said all that, you may still want an initiative bid for other matchups of course, so TL;DR: the list is probably fine as is. Mark 2 engine and baffles are 'nice to have' but certainly not essential. You can get by just fine without them in most cases. However, if you find yourself in a stress-heavy area, then one or the other can easily be incorporated, but not both (you want some kind of bid for Whisper)

Thanks! How would Whisper (and that list) do against defenders? I've already learned to fear the triple defender list, and heard that the Commonwealth is quite good too.

I think he is fine , sitting at the beaches of Miami, sipping drinks.

Thanks! How would Whisper (and that list) do against defenders? I've already learned to fear the triple defender list, and heard that the Commonwealth is quite good too.

Both of those matchups are pretty even and will likely come down to however can out-fly their opponent.

If its 2 defenders + palp, both sides can hardly hurt each other until the palps are removed. Then it comes down to making it a 2v1 - whoever gets there first likely wins.

Against triple defenders, its kind of the same, except your opponent has an easier time killing your shuttle, but slightly less mitigation against your damage, so you probably want to be aggressive and deal as much damage as you can so its an even trade (your shuttle for 1 enemy defender).

Having a PS 1 defender can help, since blocking a defender is still worthwhile (especially if Whisper already has target lock on that defender).

One thing to watch out for: Whisper will either need to k-turn to stay in the fight or spend some time turning around to get back in. The defenders can hound her with their white k-turns and keep up the pressure. Asteroids on your side of the table are probably helpful to limit defender k-turn options while at the same time not getting in the way of whisper's decloaks.

One trick you can try is keep your shuttle in the corner and keep it close to the board edge. This forces the defenders to fly towards the edge to keep shooting and its possible they will get too close and not be able to k-turn due to possibility of going off the table. As a defender player, I know how important it is to keep defenders pointed towards the middle of the table as much as possible. Not everyone knows this, so if you can trick opposing defenders into coming at your shuttle in a corner or near an edge, you can maybe get a positional advantage...

IMO Whisper is a little sensitive to the alpha strikes and the increasing ways that damage passes under shields. Still a viable ship, but losing more than gaining with recent ships/cards.

No one mentions Echo. *sigh*

Echo I think still has a place as well, and has an advantage in that those 4K defenders can't out 4K her. Being able to turn 135 degrees means you still probably can have arc on them, and fire before them, and hit harder. Learning to fly with Echo takes even more practice and learning, and like all defenders, it's still very fragile. I think though that Echo may even be more viable in the meta, just for the unpredictable flight pattern she boasts.

No one mentions Echo. *sigh*

Echo I think still has a place as well, and has an advantage in that those 4K defenders can't out 4K her. Being able to turn 135 degrees means you still probably can have arc on them, and fire before them, and hit harder. Learning to fly with Echo takes even more practice and learning, and like all defenders, it's still very fragile. I think though that Echo may even be more viable in the meta, just for the unpredictable flight pattern she boasts.

That's absolutely true about Echo vs Defenders. I really like Echo, but I would never recommend him to others in this sub-forum unless they were specifically asking to build a list around Echo. He's a complicated beast, and telling players to use him, especially when I have no idea of their experience level, can sometimes be like throwing people who have never swam into the deep end...

He's a complicated beast, and telling players to use him, especially when I have no idea of their experience level, can sometimes be like throwing people who have never swam into the deep end...

Hey, that's how I learned to swim.

I know it is certainly a learning curve. First with Phantoms in general, and then again with the bank decloaks. It takes a lot, but I do think she provides a far better answer to defenders than other Phantoms. In games not against defenders, it may get a little tougher. With VI, she comes in at 8 PS, which is good, but certainly beat in a lot of places. She loves Palp support (what imperial list wouldn't like Palp support?) but she also likes having a higher PS pilot to do battle with opposing aces, making it so she isn't the prime target. I thoroughly enjoy dancing her around the board though, and if people are willing to put in the time to learn her, she can be a cruel mistress, to both your opponent, and you sometimes.

No one mentions Echo. *sigh*

Echo I think still has a place as well, and has an advantage in that those 4K defenders can't out 4K her. Being able to turn 135 degrees means you still probably can have arc on them, and fire before them, and hit harder. Learning to fly with Echo takes even more practice and learning, and like all defenders, it's still very fragile. I think though that Echo may even be more viable in the meta, just for the unpredictable flight pattern she boasts.

Echo is also good against defenders specifically, because PS8 (from VI) will out-PS them most of the time. However, against other matchups, there is no substitute for good flying, especially with Echo.

I personally like flying Phantoms, and Echo is my favourite of the lot.

No one mentions Echo. *sigh*

Echo I think still has a place as well, and has an advantage in that those 4K defenders can't out 4K her. Being able to turn 135 degrees means you still probably can have arc on them, and fire before them, and hit harder. Learning to fly with Echo takes even more practice and learning, and like all defenders, it's still very fragile. I think though that Echo may even be more viable in the meta, just for the unpredictable flight pattern she boasts.

That's absolutely true about Echo vs Defenders. I really like Echo, but I would never recommend him to others in this sub-forum unless they were specifically asking to build a list around Echo. He's a complicated beast, and telling players to use him, especially when I have no idea of their experience level, can sometimes be like throwing people who have never swam into the deep end...

Quick update: I took the list I mentioned to a small local tournament and went undefeated (3-0) taking second place. So something was probably right. I learned to fear K-wings with bombs though.

I don't know about Wisper (I haven't worked up to that ship yet, trying to get good at the lower PS and work my way up as I do with other ships; it's my motis operandi, as odd as that is). This little ship does quite well at it's point cost:

I don't know about Wisper (I haven't worked up to that ship yet, trying to get good at the lower PS and work my way up as I do with other ships; it's my motis operandi, as odd as that is). This little ship does quite well at it's point cost:

Wow this seems nice for 30 pts. I will definitly try!

Wow this seems nice for 30 pts. I will definitly try!

Eh. Stygium particle accelerator has been out since the phantom, and so has this build. Lightweight frame doesn't make it better...

Wow this seems nice for 30 pts. I will definitly try!

Eh. Stygium particle accelerator has been out since the phantom, and so has this build. Lightweight frame doesn't make it better...

Lightweight Frame adds an option to the Phantom to overcome what I think was actually one of its disadvantages. The Cloak.

No one looks at that ship in its raw ability as a fighter. It's always about how to cloak or how to use the cloak etc but I think it's a double edged sword. Sure Cloak is a great ability and you can make great use of it as you make an approach or to escape if you don't have a shot, but making it an option and not the only option will open up this ship I think.

Doesn't work with Echo of course but Whisper could fly this way and certainly the generics can.

Lightweight Frame adds an option to the Phantom to overcome what I think was actually one of its disadvantages. The Cloak.

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that lightweight frame was a bad idea. I just don't believe it is BETTER than Stygium Particle Accelerator. Different yes, but not superior. I think LWF will shine in a list where you have a way to generate multiple tokens (fleet officer or Hux for example). If you are not using these options, then I don't think LWF is a good call on a phantom, because at the end of the day, Stygium should be doing more in the way of damage mitigation (over the course of many games) than +1 green die (with no tokens to help improve the results).

But I totally have to disagree with the idea that the cloak is a disadvantage on the phantom. Its amazing, regardless of pilot skill. It adds an extra layer of uncertainty in terms of your opponent's ability to predict where your ships will be, and this can lead to a mistake on your opponent's part. Since positioning is such an important part of the game, cloak/decloak gives the phantom a positional edge over many other ships.

I took this list to UK nationals and did pretty well, I mulched Dengaroo and Palp aces pretty handily. Strategy is simple: x7s for bruisers and bumpers, charge right into the opponent. Whisper hangs back, bides time, then pounces in once the opponent has committed to the x7s. Run opponent's ships through the phantom blender.
If they don't take the x7 bait, and go for whisper, commit whisper for bumps and blocks so the k-turning x7s have easy shots on the return.

98 points
2x Delta Squadron Pilot
x7

Whisper

Advanced cloaking device, Gunner, FCS, VI

I took this list to UK nationals and did pretty well, I mulched Dengaroo and Palp aces pretty handily. Strategy is simple: x7s for bruisers and bumpers, charge right into the opponent. Whisper hangs back, bides time, then pounces in once the opponent has committed to the x7s. Run opponent's ships through the phantom blender.

If they don't take the x7 bait, and go for whisper, commit whisper for bumps and blocks so the k-turning x7s have easy shots on the return.

98 points

2x Delta Squadron Pilot

x7

Whisper

Advanced cloaking device, Gunner, FCS, VI

This list runs at 100 points

From what I can see you could run a Sigma, a tooled up Duchess and X7 Vessery in a list together.

From what I can see you could run a Sigma, a tooled up Duchess and X7 Vessery in a list together.

You could, but Vessery is not really ideal here. Sigma needs FCS, but at PS 3, doesn't get his target lock until after Vessery is done shooting. Ryad or Glaive could work just as well, however.