I'm convinced it's Hera. We're looking into the future of Rebels where the climax of season 5 coincides with this battle, or something similar.

Am I the only one who couldn't tell that Tarkin/Leia were CGI? I guess most people out there noticed it, but I literally couldn't. Some people will probably criticize my eyes, but they looked so real to me. I was blown away. Maybe my 3d glasses blurred the images?

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The Alliance may have lost a large portion of the fleet yes, but the Imperials lost far more than that, 2 Star Destroyers, countless TIEs, but those pale in comparison to the the loss of the intelligence held there. As a direct result of this battle they also lose their Death Star, so calling this a Pyrrhic victory is a mistake. Plus, this action may have led Tarkin to target Alderaan which led to a sizable new uprising among other planets and general support for the rebellion. This may have been a costly victory in terms of life and war materiel, but this was a MAJOR victory.

I really wish they had gotten the voice actress for Hera to join in the check in, or at least had some members of Phoenix squadron check in.

As for the CGI faces, they could have skipped showing leis face, and kept the effect, and Tarkin could have been done primarily in the reflection of the view screen to keep the CGI from showing through. Maybe only show his face directly at a distance.

but what really bugged me was seeing the CGI of Hayden Christensen under Vaders mask...

All around, awesome movie, really want to see some of those ships in Armada! but I run imps... so I don't get to play with a lot of them... (though they need to redo the Devastator and Vader after this to make them really warrant their namesakes!)

My favorite part of the movie was seeing the flotilla get wrecked by the Devastator.

Very, very minor nitpick, here. The way Tarkin casually announces "Vader will deal with the Rebel fleet"...you sort of expect more than him just showing up with a single Star Destroyer, given we just saw that very same Rebel fleet destroy TWO Star Destroyers.

I don't hate that Vader shows up in the Devastator - that totally works. Just wish that it wasn't the same class of ship that the Rebels just wiped out a pair of. IMHO, would have been better if the 'garrison' ships had been older designs. IDEALLY Victory-class ships (wow, I would have loved that) - but I'd have taken Venator-class, too. Just...not have the Rebels manage to take out two ships of a type that the big, scary reinforcements amounts to...one more of the same thing.

The CGI was very .. CGI .. but honestly how else are you going to do it? Get that actor from RotS and put in the prosthetic cheek bones?

LOL - "that actor in RotS" was also CGI. They did one of those face-replace things. An earlier version of it, which doesn't work very well with mouth movement (so he didn't speak) - but honestly, THIS version was also iffy with mouth movement. Been a problem for a while - like with 'Tron: Legacy', they just aren't getting mouths right. When the person isn't talking? OMG, it's TOTALLY convincing. As soon as they open their mouths, though...*oof*. Uncanny valley!

Calling this a victory would depend on your point of view. Up until then the Rebels hadn't been doing all that good, in fact they hadn't won any battles but conducting hit and run raids.

I'm not expecting it but I feel that we deserve an accurate ISD1 model after R1.

If you're so fond of the word, use it correctly.

A Pyrrhic victory is one that accomplishes nothing and leaves you too exhausted to continue.

Scarif was the opposite of a pyrrhic victory; the Rebels took heavy losses but won the day.

I did think Leia's smile at the end was a little much considering she had just seen so many people sacrificed for the plans though.

This is incorrect as well. A pyrrhic victory may well accomplish something, but at a too steep price. Pyrrhus won both the battle at Heraclea and Asculum, but his losses weakened him and made it unattractive for his roman allies to fight with and for him.

Looking at rogue one, I would definitely judge it a pyrrhic victory if I would be a spectator at that time - knowing only what the typical bothnan would know after the battle at Scarif. Even as an omniscient moviegoer who records that the plans ultimately aided in the rebel victory, I would argue that nobody could have known about the fact that the rebellion would pick up a force sensitive guy who in turn would be able to pinpoint that torpedo into the vent - so with the victory at Scarif but without Luke, the rebellion would probably still not be able to blow up that death star..

And on top of that, please remember that this is all rebel propaganda!

Looking at rogue one, I would definitely judge it a pyrrhic victory if I would be a spectator at that time - knowing only what the typical bothnan would know after the battle at Scarif. Even as an omniscient moviegoer who records that the plans ultimately aided in the rebel victory, I would argue that nobody could have known about the fact that the rebellion would pick up a force sensitive guy who in turn would be able to pinpoint that torpedo into the vent - so with the victory at Scarif but without Luke, the rebellion would probably still not be able to blow up that death star..

Eh...did you miss the point of the Tantive IV's mission? The Rebels knew exactly that they could 'pick up a force sensitive guy' - who could also pilot a starfighter. It was going to Tatooine to grab Obi-Wan Kenobi - hero and ace star pilot from the Clone Wars.

Their plan was sound - get the plans to the super-weapon, then go dig up a Jedi Clone Wars veteran to help deliver the attack. (Hell, in the event as it happened, Obi-Wan managed to be the key to the attack working). They just didn't know about...the complications that would happen along the way. IE., Vader.

Looking at rogue one, I would definitely judge it a pyrrhic victory if I would be a spectator at that time - knowing only what the typical bothnan would know after the battle at Scarif. Even as an omniscient moviegoer who records that the plans ultimately aided in the rebel victory, I would argue that nobody could have known about the fact that the rebellion would pick up a force sensitive guy who in turn would be able to pinpoint that torpedo into the vent - so with the victory at Scarif but without Luke, the rebellion would probably still not be able to blow up that death star..

Eh...did you miss the point of the Tantive IV's mission? The Rebels knew exactly that they could 'pick up a force sensitive guy' - who could also pilot a starfighter. It was going to Tatooine to grab Obi-Wan Kenobi - hero and ace star pilot from the Clone Wars.

Their plan was sound - get the plans to the super-weapon, then go dig up a Jedi Clone Wars veteran to help deliver the attack. (Hell, in the event as it happened, Obi-Wan managed to be the key to the attack working). They just didn't know about...the complications that would happen along the way. IE., Vader.

Eh, Obi-Wan was an okay pilot, they REALLY needed to get that apprentice of his... what was his name? Anakin? Kinda whiny, but **** can he pilot! I wonder where he went after the Jedi purge.... The Rebels could use someone like him...

My favorite part of the movie was seeing the flotilla get wrecked by the Devastator.

Very, very minor nitpick, here. The way Tarkin casually announces "Vader will deal with the Rebel fleet"...you sort of expect more than him just showing up with a single Star Destroyer, given we just saw that very same Rebel fleet destroy TWO Star Destroyers.

I don't hate that Vader shows up in the Devastator - that totally works. Just wish that it wasn't the same class of ship that the Rebels just wiped out a pair of. IMHO, would have been better if the 'garrison' ships had been older designs. IDEALLY Victory-class ships (wow, I would have loved that) - but I'd have taken Venator-class, too. Just...not have the Rebels manage to take out two ships of a type that the big, scary reinforcements amounts to...one more of the same

There is a major difference between 2 ships (and its crews) that have been stuck on garrison duty for who knows how long, that have just gone through the fight of their lives against a similar sized but much more ready force, than to the personnal flagship of the Emperors first, with the finest, hand picked crew of Pilots and Naval Officers, that is worked up, expecting a fight. And fresh.

Also, half the Rebel fleet had jumped out by then.

So the devestator did its namesake proud.

My favorite part of the movie was seeing the flotilla get wrecked by the Devastator.

Very, very minor nitpick, here. The way Tarkin casually announces "Vader will deal with the Rebel fleet"...you sort of expect more than him just showing up with a single Star Destroyer, given we just saw that very same Rebel fleet destroy TWO Star Destroyers.

I don't hate that Vader shows up in the Devastator - that totally works. Just wish that it wasn't the same class of ship that the Rebels just wiped out a pair of. IMHO, would have been better if the 'garrison' ships had been older designs. IDEALLY Victory-class ships (wow, I would have loved that) - but I'd have taken Venator-class, too. Just...not have the Rebels manage to take out two ships of a type that the big, scary reinforcements amounts to...one more of the same thing.

You could also take that line as Vader himself will deal with the Rebel fleet, regardless of what Star Destroyer he was on. It was probably his order to bring the Devastator out of hyperspace practically on top of the Rebel fleet to blow them away. Ironically, Ozzel used this same strategy in Empire and got force choked for it.

I would have gone for some older ships as well, but I'm just as happy seeing classic ANH ISD-I models getting screen time to shine instead of being locked away for all of two scenes in ANH. However I did notice what looked like a Venator's turbolaser turret firing from the planetary shield base. And we see a Juggernaut transferring prisoners earlier, so there's definitely some notes of old technology still hanging around the universe from bygone eras.

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Everybody dies.... the end.

No surprise there..

Though I was hoping that a few of the characters might show up again in another story. I know they were going for the great sacrifice but still. It's a shame, is all.

The two most compelling characters in the film didn't make it.

I'm taking, of course, about Screaming Chinese Girl and Mom.

MUST ..... HAVE .... ONE .... MORE ..... WHERE MANY BOTHANS DIE.

Can we at least all agree now that ramming is a viable option and stop complaining about the collision rules?

Can we at least all agree now that ramming is a viable option and stop complaining about the collision rules?

no we start complaining about the silly scene.

Can we at least all agree now that ramming is a viable option and stop complaining about the collision rules?

no we start complaining about the silly scene.

To me, I think it means we can assume those ships when they come, will be tanky little things.

Another point... planet whatsitsname was a major data center storing Death Star plans. For a moment there I thought the Empire not only lost the plans but must have lost a bunch of other high tech designs as well.

I don't remember now but did they stress that that was the ONLY place where the plans were kept?

If so, how did the build Death Star v2 when both engineers were gone.

And I agree... Tarkin and Leia were both far too cartoony though Leia didn't bother me as much since she had a second of screen time.

I found it funny how Saw Guerrera's gang looked like a bunch of mujaheddin, the rebel troops on the beach had WW2 helmets and the gatling gun scene from the shuttle was like Vietnam.

The book that is a prequel to rogue one hints the second desth star was being built at the same time.

My biggest grip about the movie was the space combat over the shield planet. All those ships pop in, but it was the x wing and y wings doing all the dmg.

Dont think i saw the new mon cal ship fire any of its turbolasers, nor the neb B, or corvettes. And i guess someone forgot to remind disney aka the writers the rebel transports are lacking turbolasers.

The space battle felt abit underwhelming, due to the big ships not firing on each others. And the scene were vader ship jumps in it open fire and destroy the neb b, but that was it.

Seems the space battle was tone down due to budget issue.

Would of love to have seen the rebels ships jump in to face 2 VSD vs ISD.

Like the battle of Endor we have to assume the capital ships are hammering each other while we cut to other scenes

Thats why 2x ISD's are 'easy' to kill.

Like the battle of Endor we have to assume the capital ships are hammering each other while we cut to other scenes

Thats why 2x ISD's are 'easy' to kill.

I figured they just caught on and captured the squad heavy meta on film...

Actually I did say that it was odd that you didn't see much capital ship fire to my pal and fiance. That was a little disappointing.

I had the same reaction: where are the turbolaser batteries?

I thought it was a great film, and I thought they even did the CGI characters pretty well.

The only 'uhm..' moment was the corvette ramming the ISD.. and yes the capital ships didn't appear to be firing their guns.

But all in all it's the best film I've seen all year

Can we at least all agree now that ramming is a viable option and stop complaining about the collision rules?

Quite the opposite. Due to the three dimensional nature of space, we see two ISDs parked in a position that would look, from above (like for instance, if one were representing the battle on a table in two dimensions) as if they were sitting almost directly on top of each other. We also see plenty of instances where rebel ships were sitting one above the other.

And the way Ramming works in Armada would never have happened in that battle, because the ships in Armada stop where they are, rather than come into actual contact with one another.

Ramming in Armada remains stupid.

Bytheway, shouldn't someone talk to Mon Mothma about her wardrobe choices?


"I wonder how should I dress for this occasion.... Hmmmm... Yes... White and a long collar."

.... Look, when you want to go for Angelic and Serene, there's only so much you can do without busting out the Fake Wings....

So... out of the new characters, who made it out of Rogue One alive? Seriously, so many neat people that had to bite it simply because they didn't appear in ANH.

Admiral Raddus was cool. He breaks with the council and takes the fleet anyway, apparently with Leia on his side for it. We didn't see him explicitly die, but his ship was disabled and Vader ordered a boarding party. Even if he escaped with Leia on the Tantive (as he should have as a VIP knowing his ship was doomed), he's gonna end up a captive there as well. He's apparently based on Winston Churchill... I really hope we haven't seen the end of him. In the very least, we can look forward to seeing him in Rebels (since Mon Cala hasn't joined the Rebellion in their time).

I don't think we saw what became of General Dravin, but I don't recall seeing him at Yavin. I think he survived with his Hammerhead, and probably got deployed elsewhere, maybe taking Mon Mothma to safety while fleeing Yavin. Hard as he was on our heroes in the story I liked him as a character as well... got to have guts for personally commanding the ram attack.

Merrick as blue leader was another character I wish we could have seen more of. In the very least he should be an X-Wing pilot for that game in the future but alas, into the sand, and then run over by the Death Star's airblast. In fact, any interesting incidental ground characters were probably wiped out by that airblast that eliminated the base. Unless they did the wise thing and sought shelter or commandeered a transport? None of our main characters really tried to leave the scene.

It's kind of like the Death Star council all over again. Interesting incidental characters that look good enough to have their own stories, but they are all wiped out by the Death Star's explosion. Only Tagge survives, then killed by Vader at the end of his comic line. Boo.