Some friends and I wanted to play Star Wars and spend a good deal of money on the FFG books and dice only to complete hate everything about it. Now that is not the point of this post, it is only to establish that this version of the game is not for us. No, this post is to find an alternate version of the game that you guys (as experienced players) recommend and why.

We don't really get into the crunch, but do prefer a clear pass or fail system that flows well. We also would like clear space combat rules that are fun and easy to use.

D6 is pass/fail, and it has a fairly clear vehicle combat system (with a much-superior personal/vehicular interface than FFG's version). Oh, and you can find all of it for FREE on the D6 Holocron website.

D6 is pass/fail, and it has a fairly clear vehicle combat system (with a much-superior personal/vehicular interface than FFG's version). Oh, and you can find all of it for FREE on the D6 Holocron website.

I agree. The SAGA Edition was just a d20 system with all of the worst aspects of that kind of system. Many players I know reminisce about the things they liked about the old d6 system.

D6 is a great system. Easy to learn, easy to use. And the material being fully available for free at this time is a big bonus. My current campaign was originally conceived as a D6 campaign, but a variety of factors led to converting to FFG before we began.

I can only speak of the D20 Saga Edition (which is now out of print, hard to find and quite expensive to buy), and while it works well as "Star Wars D&D, you'd want to heavily restrict Force Users, as they can become pretty OP if you're playing a non-force centric game.

I love the FFG system for SW, but if you don't then the ONLY option worth considering is d6. imo

Alternatively, you could take almost ANY system and re-skin it as Star Wars. Like World of Darkness? Rifts (for some ungodly reason)? Tunnels and Trolls? Exalted? Whatever system you like and already are familiar with will work. Sure, it will take some conversion work, but not much more than learning the ins-and-outs of a new system. There's a thread or two floating around these forums where someone's done most of the work for a Dungeon World conversion already.

Saga edition can be found in some of the darker corners of the web, and most of the books make regular appearances at bargain booksellers/re-sellers. It works well if your party is either all Force-users or no Force-users, mixed parties not so much. Vehicle combat is slightly less clunky than it was in D&D 3.5, but very deadly. It isn't bad, really, so long as you're aware of the limitations of the system.

Best of luck to you. If you're not selling your books, you might consider donating them to your local library or FLGS to use as loaners.

It's hard to recommend an alternative version without first knowing what turned you off to FFG's ruleset and what you guys actually enjoy in a ruleset. To some extent all the Star Wars rpgs are good, great .....even awesome ..... depending on how you game and what you like in a rule set. Some people are going to love d6. Others will find that Saga was the best ever.

But without concrete details on what it is you didn't like and what it is you're looking to get from the rules (clear pass and fail afterall is a feature of most of the other versions so it is somewhat hard to recommend Saga over the RCR per see without more).

So, I also went through a phase where I didn't want to actually invest into the FFG version of things. To that end, I unearthed all my old West End d6 books from the dark recesses of my closet, and we went to work.

The Good:

Character Generation is the definition of simplicity.

In the beginning, combat is quick and light.

No mucking around with things like hit points, feats, talents, etc. You have your skills and your imagination. Go.

Out of print, but free in some places, cheap in others.

The Bad:

Once a character gets beyond a certain dice attribute, they are unstoppable.

Combat starts to bog down heavily once you have a lot of opponents.

The Wild Die is awfully swingy and comes up a heck of a lot.

This was the game I remembered as being light, quick, and fully encompassed the Feel of Star Wars. It worked out well, until I remembered that a Young Jedi can't do much of Anything, and the Dodge rules were terrible once players discovered that's all they needed to live. It's got a "minion-like" rule for combined firing, but then you're dropping 20 stormtroopers just to take a meaningful shot. Also, with players for who this system was new, I was surprised at how easily it was to forget to remove dice for multiple actions. In the end, combat became anything but quick and light.

Star Wars Saga was the next. We converted our characters over as best we could and picked up from 6th level. Results were ... varied. Star Wars Saga gets a bum rap sometimes, but I actually hold the system in high regard. The d20 system IS fast, and it offers a CLEAR Pass/Fail system, but offers a lot of other good and decent mechanics. So much so, that I'm working on a fantasy variant of it, but that's off topic.

The Good:

d20 is a very easy system to pick up and use.

Classes are initially balanced.

A system for tracking health other than hit points.

The Bad:

Jedi over-power the party at 6-10, but after that they are almost outshined by the other class abilities. Some of the higher class abilities are no less far fetched and magical than anything a space wizard might accomplish.

I found space battles difficult to balance in a small freighter.

It's D&D in Space (not sure how bad that is).

Out of print, but surprisingly expensive when you find it.

For all that, the FFG version is perhaps the best version I have played. Yes, it can get tedious trying to think of what the third Failure with 5 Advantages could be, or the seventh Success with 4 Threats, but if you don't like that then the system does offer plenty of straight mechanical expenditures for those things without utilizing story elements and I would recommend just using it like that.

Space Combat, I got nothing for you. Bust out X-Wing Miniatures when the time comes? :)

TL-DR: Saga Edition is quick, easy, and offers a clear Pass/Fail.

Star Wars Saga [...] So much so, that I'm working on a fantasy variant of it, but that's off topic.

Something like this ?

Star Wars Saga gets a bum rap sometimes, but I actually hold the system in high regard. The d20 system IS fast, and it offers a CLEAR Pass/Fail system, but offers a lot of other good and decent mechanics. So much so, that I'm working on a fantasy variant of it, but that's off topic.

You mean 4th Edition D&D .

In all seriousness, though, I do agree that Saga got a bum rap. It's my second favorite now. If I'm not using FFG I would opt to use Saga.

Star Wars Saga gets a bum rap sometimes, but I actually hold the system in high regard. The d20 system IS fast, and it offers a CLEAR Pass/Fail system, but offers a lot of other good and decent mechanics. So much so, that I'm working on a fantasy variant of it, but that's off topic.

You mean 4th Edition D&D .

In all seriousness, though, I do agree that Saga got a bum rap. It's my second favorite now. If I'm not using FFG I would opt to use Saga.

Saga does suffer from having a lack of legally available pdfs coupled with high costs for OOP books. If you already own it, these issues are unlikely to matter, but if you're looking at buying-in now, they're very real concerns.

Star Wars Saga gets a bum rap sometimes, but I actually hold the system in high regard. The d20 system IS fast, and it offers a CLEAR Pass/Fail system, but offers a lot of other good and decent mechanics. So much so, that I'm working on a fantasy variant of it, but that's off topic.

You mean 4th Edition D&D .

In all seriousness, though, I do agree that Saga got a bum rap. It's my second favorite now. If I'm not using FFG I would opt to use Saga.

Saga does suffer from having a lack of legally available pdfs coupled with high costs for OOP books. If you already own it, these issues are unlikely to matter, but if you're looking at buying-in now, they're very real concerns.

This is true. I got into Saga a year or so after WotC ended it. Collecting all the books was a pain and some were expensive. Some were amazingly cheap. In the end it was worth it to me but I will admit it's not for everyone.

Personally, I stopped playing D20 SW when Saga came out. I feel that they went backwards by returning to an Armor Defense bonus as opposed to the Damage reduction system they used in the RCRB rules. Armor does not prevent you from being hit. It absorbs damage after you have been hit. That and basically scrapping the Skill ranks, drove me from the D20 system completely.

The best answer is that each system was strong in some areas, weak in others. FFG is no different. I am still getting used to it, and my biggest difficulties lie in vehicle combat. But it is a solid system, especially for balancing Force use vs. non-force users.

d6, per RAW, was virtually impossible to run a force user. It took too long to advance to where you could do something useful without spending CP or FP, and once you did advance, you suddenly became godlike. In general, advancement was slow, unless the GM hands out huge amounts of CP. Vehicle combat was not bad. I ran several house rules which helped with force users and vehicles. Let me know if you want to hear about them.

I played d20 very briefly, thought that characters were fairly balanced, but it did turn out feeling like D&D in space. And vehicle combat was atrocious.

I never tried Saga, but feel like I may have missed out from what some have told me lately.

With FFG, I appreciate the abstract system, love the dice. But I do like a bit more crunch, and the ability to use ranges, miniatures and grids more.

Star Wars Saga [...] So much so, that I'm working on a fantasy variant of it, but that's off topic.

Something like this ?

Yes, like that, but with a few other ideas. I'm a big fan of the "everyone can do all skills" thing, but adding in a lot of extra stuff for being Trained to each skill in order to reward those who take them. There's just a lot to like in this system.

There are pretty good Savage Worlds interpretations. I didn't mind Saga, after a couple of house rules. D6 was pretty good for its day, and is "pocketbook-friendly" these days, but I wouldn't go back to it.

I have to agree with Kael though and wonder what it is that wasn't liked. There are a few barriers to entry commonly pointed to, usually by older RPGers like my players when they were first exposed to it. Some minds are fossilized, but I managed to swing them around and spoil them for almost any other rule system. It is free-form/narrative when you want it, but can be crunchy too if you like that. So what were the issues?