I love Imperial shuttles as much as the next person, but I don't see the need to oversaturate the game (specifically the Imperial faction) with more shuttles. It takes a spot in development for a fighter instead. We've already got two shuttles that fill similar rolls (with the Upsilon being a beefed up version of the Lambda), so I don't see any need for more shuttles.

I disagree there is room for one more shuttle, the Sentinel Class Shuttle from A New Hope and Rebels.

But what would it do?

What could it reasonably have or do that the Lambda and Upsilon don't already fulfill?

Your picture response is confusing. Please educate me.

But what would it do?

What could it reasonably have or do that the Lambda and Upsilon don't already fulfill?

Well, you ask me it doesn't have to DO anything. Not every ship and upgrade needs to do something new and different. A Sentinel could just have a larger crew capacity, or be have one hull more (or less) and be priced accordingly. People should be including ships in the collections because they like them and they're cool, not because of what they can do.

Says who? I like to buy ships because of what they do in the game, sometimes even totally disregarding whether I care about the ship aesthetically or lore wise at all. I'm pretty sure FFG is smart enough to realize that there is a player base who likes to buy things and go "ooooh puuuuurtttyyy", and another that is buying ships and would be fine even if they were made out of paper as long as they added new elements to the game. Better to please both ends of the spectrum than only one.

But what would it do?

What could it reasonably have or do that the Lambda and Upsilon don't already fulfill?

Well, you ask me it doesn't have to DO anything. Not every ship and upgrade needs to do something new and different. A Sentinel could just have a larger crew capacity, or be have one hull more (or less) and be priced accordingly. People should be including ships in the collections because they like them and they're cool, not because of what they can do.

Says who? I like to buy ships because of what they do in the game, sometimes even totally disregarding whether I care about the ship aesthetically or lore wise at all. I'm pretty sure FFG is smart enough to realize that there is a player base who likes to buy things and go "ooooh puuuuurtttyyy", and another that is buying ships and would be fine even if they were made out of paper as long as they added new elements to the game. Better to please both ends of the spectrum than only one.

But sometimes they're mutually exclusive. Artificially creating differences when there are none only creates rules bloat and increases complication. It hurts the game. In those cases it's better to just have two ships that function nearly identically than to create a distinction between them.

I'm not going to say that desiring a constant influx of new mechanics is hurting the game. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, the game is still in it's infancy so only time will tell.

But I will say that the more new mechanics and upgrades and EPTs and pilot skills are added, the less interested in the game I and the people I play with become. We're all traditional wargame players and the more X Wing pushes down the path of every pilot being unique and every ship coming with new, unique upgrades, the further away from a traditional game it becomes. I guess it's why we like Epic so much, because it takes the emphasis away from the special snowflake pilots and the complicated multi-level card interactions and places it squarely on the shoulders of the generic pilots and out flying your opponent, not out-list-building him.

So when I say what people should be doing it is, of course, just my opinion.

No, watch the cutscenes, this ship cannot possiby be 29 meters long, someone pulled the number out of their ass and it has been corrected.

Oh, you mean in May of this year when they established in the canon comic series that the HWK-290 is large enough for three humanoids to stand around in the cockpit?

No, watch the cutscenes, this ship cannot possiby be 29 meters long, someone pulled the number out of their ass and it has been corrected.

Oh, you mean in May of this year when they established in the canon comic series that the HWK-290 is large enough for three humanoids to stand around in the cockpit?

That actually helps prove the smaller size. Look at how big that area is, they are pretty dang close to on top of one another. Also comic artist will usually forgo any type of size dimensions to get the scene they want.

It was just the quickest example I could do. According to previous stats on the vehicle, it has an astonishing amount of firepower with 8 forward guns, an ion cannon and a missile launcher, which LFL may or may not sign off on. Canonically it holds nearly 4 times as many passengers as a Lambda, and is generally depicted as hardier and better armored. It's a troop lander, not a multipurpose craft, but also not a command shuttle like the Upsilon. That's enough wiggle room to end up with a stat line different than either, both in terms of actual dice, dial and upgrades. It also is technically it's own distinct model too, so it'd be visibly different.

I don't know if FFG wants to drop another shuttle on us so quickly, but given it's prominence in the new canon, I'd expect that if they can find a distinction for it given the opportunity. It's also a great opportunity for more Imperial crew - because you know people want Thrawn crew cards, and as fun as epic might be, I think people would prefer if iconic characters were more broadly available.

No, watch the cutscenes, this ship cannot possiby be 29 meters long, someone pulled the number out of their ass and it has been corrected.

Oh, you mean in May of this year when they established in the canon comic series that the HWK-290 is large enough for three humanoids to stand around in the cockpit?

That actually helps prove the smaller size. Look at how big that area is, they are pretty dang close to on top of one another. Also comic artist will usually forgo any type of size dimensions to get the scene they want.

Except they aren't close to on top of each other, there is room to walk around in there. Kanan is 1.91m tall, and looking at him sitting in the cabin, there is plenty of room around and above him. Much more room than the cutscenes from Dark Forces which makes it barely a two-seater in the cabin. Also, if you look at the later panel where Kanan and the others are disembarking from the ship, considering his size, it also gives you an idea of how much larger the ship is.

Some of us like to play 'thematic' games so a 'turtle' cargo shuttle with the 4 wings fits in better than the upsilon.

If i'm doing a game set around the battle of yavin era i'm just not going to use TFA stuff as its well out of the time frame.

I know we're a subset of players who *dont* play things just for there statline but there are a fair few of us

I love Imperial shuttles as much as the next person, but I don't see the need to oversaturate the game (specifically the Imperial faction) with more shuttles. It takes a spot in development for a fighter instead. We've already got two shuttles that fill similar rolls (with the Upsilon being a beefed up version of the Lambda), so I don't see any need for more shuttles.

I disagree there is room for one more shuttle, the Sentinel Class Shuttle from A New Hope and Rebels.

But what would it do?

What could it reasonably have or do that the Lambda and Upsilon don't already fulfill?

Be Stolen by the Rebels.

https://youtu.be/XVDDqCmT6fg?t=40

Yeah, honestly, it should come with both Rebel and Imperial pilots if they add it to the game. The rebels have probably clocked more flight time in it than imperials have at this point.

No, watch the cutscenes, this ship cannot possiby be 29 meters long, someone pulled the number out of their ass and it has been corrected.

Oh, you mean in May of this year when they established in the canon comic series that the HWK-290 is large enough for three humanoids to stand around in the cockpit?

Comics are pretty terrible source for technical details.

But even if we assume canon HWK to be 29 meters long, the comic was released after the miniature, it's understandable that it was based on Dark Forces HWK not not-yet-existing Kanan HWK.

Here's the relevant bit from the announcement for Wave 3:

The HWK-290™ Expansion Pack, Lambda -class Shuttle™ Expansion Pack, B-Wing™ Expansion Pack, and TIE Bomber™ Expansion Pack are scheduled to arrive in the third quarter of 2013. Each of these expansions comes with a detailed miniature starship, accurately rendered at the same 1/270 scale as the game’s other ships (as always, we worked closely with Lucasfilm Ltd. to ensure the correct sizes of each ship), and includes multiple ship cards, upgrades, a maneuver dial, and all necessary tokens.

(Source: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2013/5/4/support-ships-and-system-upgrades/ )

So yes. FFG seems to have also been surprised by the small size of the HWK, but that's the number LFG gave them.

xwing and armada scales kinda have to be off.

The fighters are all about the same size, the freighters are about the same size, pretty much everything else is on a unique and crazy scale.

Its one thing to be slightly off scale (Tantive i believe should be about 1/8th larger than it is) and grossly off scale like SterTrek Attack Wing does.

Ive never seen minis ever be to 100% scale in any game or product except the SUPER EXPENSIVE collectible models. As long as they look good side by side, who cares? I honestly didnt notice for awhile the Tantive was smaller than it should be compared to the Xwing model, so the scale is fine. But when i see the Enterprise-A next to the Enterprise-D and theyre almost the same effin' size we have an issue....

I love Imperial shuttles as much as the next person, but I don't see the need to oversaturate the game (specifically the Imperial faction) with more shuttles. It takes a spot in development for a fighter instead. We've already got two shuttles that fill similar rolls (with the Upsilon being a beefed up version of the Lambda), so I don't see any need for more shuttles.

Look, the Empire has room in their budget for two things: TIEs and Shuttles.

Sometimes the TIE is also a Shuttle.

Either way, requesting something that is not one of those two things is completely against protocol. Please see your local compliance officer for retraining.

Look, the Empire has room in their budget for two things: TIEs and Shuttles.

Sometimes the TIE is also a Shuttle.

Either way, requesting something that is not one of those two things is completely against protocol. Please see your local compliance officer for retraining.

The Empire has room enough in its budget for all things. It does not, however, have the desire for small ships that are not TIEs or shuttles. Once perfection has been reached, why would we need to continue?

Your Compliance Officer has failed to train you in this crucial aspect of Imperial doctrine, and thus a Compliance Officer Compliance Officer has been dispatched to retrain them. Once that has happened, please report to your local Compliance Officer for retraining.

Any new ship is more options for the game.

You don't have to buy it if you don't like it.

But what would it do?

What could it reasonably have or do that the Lambda and Upsilon don't already fulfill?

Well, you ask me it doesn't have to DO anything. Not every ship and upgrade needs to do something new and different. A Sentinel could just have a larger crew capacity, or be have one hull more (or less) and be priced accordingly. People should be including ships in the collections because they like them and they're cool, not because of what they can do.

I'm on the fence when it comes to something like this. On the one hand, I do love seeing all kinds of new ships come into the game and I agree completely that people should play the ships they like the most. That kind of logic I can get behind and will support. It would be fun to play a casual squad consisting of a Sentinel shuttle with TIE Fighters escorting it.

But on the other hand, more shuttles just oversaturates the Imperial faction with shuttles. While other factions would be getting more fighters (assumingly), Imperials would be getting another slow moving support ship that doesn't add much to the faction. Yes, something like more crew slots, a different mix of upgrade icons, a slightly different statline, and new pilots would be cool. But it doesn't expand the faction. The Lambda was the original support ship for Imperials. The Upsilon provides higher attack to offset it's low maneuverability (essentially a "fix" of the Lambda) and introduces the Coordinate action into non-epic games. The Sentinel would bring... what?

As many as they seem to need in the films, I would guess.

I love these new cargo shuttles though. I think they're my favorite expansion on the Lambda's design.

As many as they seem to need in the films, I would guess.

Well Krennic sure as **** didn't need an entirely new shuttle for this movie. A Lambda would have worked just fine.

He had a better shuttle because he had better passengers.

Krennic's Imperial shuttle was a Delta-class T-3c shuttle that was used as transport for Director Orson Krennic and his Death Trooper unit.

Plus the Lambda is associated with Vader and the Emperor.

Flavor and Fluff, only way to get around it is to make something new

or like Disney did, to disown the EU.

I also like what eMeM said about a scene having Krennic's shuttle show up,

you don't need to waste scenes showing that it's not the Emperor or Vader showing up,

as would happen if it was a Lambda, you know it's Krennic & company showing up because it's his shuttle.

Let me tell ya about scale, ffg doesn't give a single care about scale anymore.

Of course they care about scale, they just care about game play, production and marketing more.

As many as they seem to need in the films, I would guess.

Well Krennic sure as **** didn't need an entirely new shuttle for this movie. A Lambda would have worked just fine.

I love these new cargo shuttles though. I think they're my favorite expansion on the Lambda's design.

Krennic was a special snow flake for sure. Being part of special engineering projects he had access to many prototypes that may have never gone into production. He also had cans of black spray paint he used liberally on his stromtroopers' plastic armor.

Bytheway, another ship from Rogue One nobody is talking about is that transport shuttle with the shape of a TIE interceptor wing that we see durnig the battle of Scarif.

The one that brings the death troopers into battle, the Imperial equivalent to the U-Wing.

It looked something like this:

ell Krennic sure as **** didn't need an entirely new shuttle for this movie. A Lambda would have worked just fine.

My head canon is that it's a specially up-armored version of a T-47.

Bytheway, another ship from Rogue One nobody is talking about is that transport shuttle with the shape of a TIE interceptor wing that we see durnig the battle of Scarif.

The one that brings the death troopers into battle, the Imperial equivalent to the U-Wing.

It looked something like this:

That is because we don't want to spoil everything yet ... But yes, i hope the secret missing ship is this one.

But what would it do?

What could it reasonably have or do that the Lambda and Upsilon don't already fulfill?

Well, you ask me it doesn't have to DO anything. Not every ship and upgrade needs to do something new and different. A Sentinel could just have a larger crew capacity, or be have one hull more (or less) and be priced accordingly. People should be including ships in the collections because they like them and they're cool, not because of what they can do.

I'm on the fence when it comes to something like this. On the one hand, I do love seeing all kinds of new ships come into the game and I agree completely that people should play the ships they like the most. That kind of logic I can get behind and will support. It would be fun to play a casual squad consisting of a Sentinel shuttle with TIE Fighters escorting it.

But on the other hand, more shuttles just oversaturates the Imperial faction with shuttles. While other factions would be getting more fighters (assumingly), Imperials would be getting another slow moving support ship that doesn't add much to the faction. Yes, something like more crew slots, a different mix of upgrade icons, a slightly different statline, and new pilots would be cool. But it doesn't expand the faction. The Lambda was the original support ship for Imperials. The Upsilon provides higher attack to offset it's low maneuverability (essentially a "fix" of the Lambda) and introduces the Coordinate action into non-epic games. The Sentinel would bring... what?

Ack. This is like saying the Rebels shouldn't get another tramp freighter (because they have the YT-1300, YT-2400 and the VCX-100).

Personally, I think the Imperial faction is oversaturated with fighters, and was about to give up on Imps and embrace Scum when the bat shuttle arrived. I can't wait to Coordinate and influence Turn 0 set-up.

In my mind, the "shuttle" is the default Imperial large base ship, just as the tramp freighter is for Scum and Rebels.

I dislike "they did it for the toys" attitude.

I've heard a lot of it about the prequels, but really? You think Lucas cares about money enough to invent new ships to "milk" you on toys? Or for that matter you think Lucas cares about money at all?

Obviously Disney does care about money, but this doesn't mean every new thing is "just to sell toys". It's so annoying, anything new on screen - eww, they want to steal my monies!

You think they wouldn't milk you on a "Krennic's Lambda"?

Sure they could have used Strikers on Scarif, but what if maybe, just maybe, some creaive poeple in charge of this movie wanted to expand the universe? To add something new? Or like in case of Krennic's shuttle needed a new design for narrative reasons (it's simpler to cut the movie if the audience immediately knows who is inside that ship)?