Personally I don't like the discard face on the dice, if it wasn't random it wouldn't annoy me so much, but there's a reason there aren't many (if any) targeted random discard effects in Magic anymore, because they aren't fun.

And in this game you only have 5 (sometimes 6) cards in hand and only 1 or 2 of each card in your deck, discard can be pretty powerful and then to make it random? Ugh.

Thankfully there aren't many discard faces in the game

I'm not saying Destiny shouldn't have Milling... I'm just saying it's not what I enjoy. All the rest of you keep on milling... I'd just rather not bother trying to build a Padme/Ackbar deck any time soon.

And I hope that the meta doesn't ever get to a place where the top 16 at worlds are all mill decks.

Eh, unless we've missed a powerful combo I think you're safe from that being the dominant meta. Mill is certainly an option, a competitive option? Maybe with some refinement, but it's hardly the powerplay. I think Worlds will be blue aggro and control/crime boss heavy.

Milling someone to death MUST be a win condition... or some other condition that DOESN'T involve killing all of an opponents characters. It's possible, though unlikely, to have a scenario where both players have a single Padme in play with no upgrades, no supports and no potentially damage dealing cards left in their decks. In that scenario, without a "mill" victory condition, the game would go one forever. Padme has no damage facings. Alone, she'll never kill an opponent.

For heroes there are some required cards for mill. Patience, launch bay, scout, thermal detonator, ECT... Those require red, blue, and yellow characters.

Elite padme is core to a light side mill deck. 3/6 die faces remove cards. You also get hard hand discards here; thermal detonator, cunning, potential falcon. (Yellow)

Mill decks sans patience will lose more to mill decks with patience. Being able to burn 5-10 cards off a deck is key, patience does this. Patience also means you get to decide what would get you more cards, resolve die or remove dice with patience. Since we really want red cards, we go with Padawan. (Blue)

That leaves red with 8 points left = rebel trooper. (Red)

When the card pool increase running mono, or bi color mill decks might work. Right now there are not enough good mill cards to do that.

Mill is not top tier, and that's the best group of characters I've made for light side mill. Dark side is much better in my humble opnion.

I've been running ePadme with two Padawans. They help to get out Thermal Detonators, which provide both some mill and some offense, and Lightsabers. Lots of shielding from Diplomatic Immunity and Force Protection as well. Cunning to copy into Padme or Force Protection, or even the Lightsabers for some surprise damage. It doesn't take much to be throwing up a LOT of shields each turn.

I don't like Launch Bay for milling, even if I were running red. It's just too expensive to be reliable. I'd much rather rely on the Thermal Detonators.

While I understand the point in not liking mill, I would refine it somewhat.

If there is no logical deck idea that can properly counter the mill deck as a concept then I agree that milling should always be quite limited. However if there are cards or decks that can overcome the mill deck then as a meta choice I can play, ignore or plan for the idea of a mill deck as can my opponent.

I think too the question of just how much of the game is based on the play of cards as opposed to the play of dice? Even if I get so lucky as to have you discard all your cards before you can even play one (I think you will get a card or two here and there most turns.) will that be a dull turn if you still have to roll and play dice?

Both Jaba and Dooku have 2 faces, so you always have a 1/36 chance of saying goodbye to almost a hand full of cards even when your decks strategy my not actually be based on discarding cards.

I think messing with peoples resources will be just as troubling if you can do so with a fair degree of reliability.

I've been running ePadme with two Padawans. They help to get out Thermal Detonators, which provide both some mill and some offense, and Lightsabers. Lots of shielding from Diplomatic Immunity and Force Protection as well. Cunning to copy into Padme or Force Protection, or even the Lightsabers for some surprise damage. It doesn't take much to be throwing up a LOT of shields each turn.

I don't like Launch Bay for milling, even if I were running red. It's just too expensive to be reliable. I'd much rather rely on the Thermal Detonators.

That's trying to solve the problem of light side mill, not having a lot of alternative win conditions. Two padawans helps do this too, but you give up some good red cards because of that.

Launch bay is not just for the discard side. It is amazing to roll into 5 discard. 5 damage is good. 5 shields are good. Its a solid card and threat that has to be addressed. The damage opens up another way to win too.

True enough, but this loses a lot of focus. Launch Bay is certainly great, but it's a VERY expensive card to throw into a deck that's probably already holding on by its fingernails.

Launch bay is not just for the discard side. It is amazing to roll into 5 discard. 5 damage is good. 5 shields are good. Its a solid card and threat that has to be addressed. The damage opens up another way to win too.

True enough, but this loses a lot of focus. Launch Bay is certainly great, but it's a VERY expensive card to throw into a deck that's probably already holding on by its fingernails.

For sure. Expensive cards require some resource commitmet. I run one falcon and one launch bay. The falcon is a more consistent launch bay. Usually only get one out.

Launch bay is not just for the discard side. It is amazing to roll into 5 discard. 5 damage is good. 5 shields are good. Its a solid card and threat that has to be addressed. The damage opens up another way to win too.

True enough, but this loses a lot of focus. Launch Bay is certainly great, but it's a VERY expensive card to throw into a deck that's probably already holding on by its fingernails.

For sure. Expensive cards require some resource commitmet. I run one falcon and one launch bay. The falcon is a more consistent launch bay. Usually only get one out.

I do the same. It's rare to see both hit the table. I actually prefer Launch Bay. I only have the one, but if I get a second, I might replace the Falcon. Having the X = 5 at the start of each round is quite good. If you roll that Discard facing and your opponent doesn't burn some dice manipulation, their hand is gone. Pretty much any facing other than Disrupt is worthwhile.

Launch bay is not just for the discard side. It is amazing to roll into 5 discard. 5 damage is good. 5 shields are good. Its a solid card and threat that has to be addressed. The damage opens up another way to win too.

True enough, but this loses a lot of focus. Launch Bay is certainly great, but it's a VERY expensive card to throw into a deck that's probably already holding on by its fingernails.

For sure. Expensive cards require some resource commitmet. I run one falcon and one launch bay. The falcon is a more consistent launch bay. Usually only get one out.

I do the same. It's rare to see both hit the table. I actually prefer Launch Bay. I only have the one, but if I get a second, I might replace the Falcon. Having the X = 5 at the start of each round is quite good. If you roll that Discard facing and your opponent doesn't burn some dice manipulation, their hand is gone. Pretty much any facing other than Disrupt is worthwhile.

What I really like about the falcon is its special more so than the 3 discard...which is still awesome. to be able to play any yellow event for free from the discard pile is super strong, especially when cards like negotiate and hyperspace jump are in the discard pile! I find that 'don't get cocky' and launch bay are two cards that synergize great together, making it easier to hit the die side with 5 cards in your hand. I'm trying to find a way to add some weapons in the ackbar and padme deck, to make the deck more threatening and force the opponents to make decisions not focused on damage. if I roll the thermal detonator's special, I feel like I have to activate it, as a bluff, to threaten the opponents characters and sacrifice the 2 mill sides.

With Ackbar, and 2x datapad's in my deck, I'm trying to hit one of my datapad's and one of the 2x falcons or 1x launch bay in my deck first turn. And with some good rolling, be able to drop one of them turn 2. I try to save resources while I can, overwriting cheap upgrades like scout and infiltrate, to get the big cards out as well.

I think the only way to attempt to get to tier 1 with Mill is to 'pretend' that the deck is not trying to mill the opponent, by trying to actually kill a character off, and when you do, you slow the opponent down enough to where you can ramp into your mill mechanics. However, against yellow blue control decks, the bluff is not needed as much because the damage output is slower.

I've given the Ackbar/Rey/Padme deck a try, but struggled with making it work. As folks have said, you need some sort of answer for enemy aggro... dice control (yellow/blue) can help stymie your opponent's damage dice. Shield generation (also yellow/blue) helps your characters survive longer. The problem is that aggro decks can simply deal damage faster than you can mill, and there aren't enough cards to stop it... and if you aren't dealing damage, then their incredible damage output is never going down. To that end, I think 3 characters is crucial for a mill deck as you really need as much health as you can get to survive.

Mulling it over in my head, I think an eRey/Padawan/Padme deck might have some legs as a sneaky mill deck: your first goal is to kill a character, and then switch gears to run mill. Once opponents know your only win condition is mill, they can get really stingy with their cards without worrying about your deck. If your opening play is damage, your opponent may be careless early game (discarding for rerolls, or to open up more slots in their hand, etc.). Once you can kill a character, you've limited your opponent's damage output -- now you can switch gears to playing defensively, and focusing entirely on discards. Cunning and Patience are your bread and butter here, but obviously cards like the Falcon and Thermal Detonator will help too. Deck construction helps feed into the sneakiness here... folks won't know that most of your deck is teched towards milling at the start of the game, so you can play a convincing damage game at first (and a few offensive upgrades are probably important here). As you move through more and more of your deck, your ability to mill will gradually increase. I guess I'm advocating for a sort of attrition/mill deck, where mill is your win condition but you don't let your opponent know that until it's too late. Putting up a little bit of a fight early on to take down a weak character gives you much better odds in the attrition game, which will make it easier for you to survive as you run out your opponent's deck.

Why does nobody love outpost??? It's perfect for "claiming" the battlefield 1-4 additional times per turn (that's including Cunning: Cunning the Outpost to "claim" the battlefield).

~D

I'm running 2x in my mill deck now. The problem is if your opponent chooses a battlefield that is pointless to your deck, they become pointless. I'm think about dropping them. Should also probably drop 2x return of the Jedi. Pulling off patience 3 times might be unnecessary. Should be rolling Padme specials with cunning. Only use patience after you have a ton of dice out obviously. Patience seems more of a midgame card. My current problem with the mill deck is the late game, the last 2 hands. If you can't roll the discard effects, you have a problem. I feel like 2x scout is a must.

Why does nobody love outpost??? It's perfect for "claiming" the battlefield 1-4 additional times per turn (that's including Cunning: Cunning the Outpost to "claim" the battlefield).

~D

I'm running 2x in my mill deck now. The problem is if your opponent chooses a battlefield that is pointless to your deck, they become pointless. I'm think about dropping them. Should also probably drop 2x return of the Jedi. Pulling off patience 3 times might be unnecessary. Should be rolling Padme specials with cunning. Only use patience after you have a ton of dice out obviously. Patience seems more of a midgame card. My current problem with the mill deck is the late game, the last 2 hands. If you can't roll the discard effects, you have a problem. I feel like 2x scout is a must.

This is my experience as well. If opponents know they're deck is gone then they'll hold onto their last cards with two hands. That's usually the crunch time for mill since they'll be using all the interference they have to prevent hand discard. Also, super extra yes on Scout being critical.

Why does nobody love outpost??? It's perfect for "claiming" the battlefield 1-4 additional times per turn (that's including Cunning: Cunning the Outpost to "claim" the battlefield).

~D

I'm running 2x in my mill deck now. The problem is if your opponent chooses a battlefield that is pointless to your deck, they become pointless. I'm think about dropping them. Should also probably drop 2x return of the Jedi. Pulling off patience 3 times might be unnecessary. Should be rolling Padme specials with cunning. Only use patience after you have a ton of dice out obviously. Patience seems more of a midgame card. My current problem with the mill deck is the late game, the last 2 hands. If you can't roll the discard effects, you have a problem. I feel like 2x scout is a must.

This is my experience as well. If opponents know they're deck is gone then they'll hold onto their last cards with two hands. That's usually the crunch time for mill since they'll be using all the interference they have to prevent hand discard. Also, super extra yes on Scout being critical.

That's why Heroes are better than Villains. Hyperspace Jump is crucial to have in your deck for that exact reason you don't win the roll.

And people want to love Patience, but to add a blue hero just for that? I'd rather do ePadme/eAckbar for this very reason, both each have a 2 Focus side die. That allows you to have Ackbar make both Padme's cards Specials or have Padme make both Ackbar's cards Discards.

Also, Ambush ambush ambush is crucial in these decks. You can play Infamous, It's a Trap!, Hit & Run, etc. along with good dice control cards to keep moving. The only thing you lack b/c of no blue really are the Shields. But you can run Neutral stuff like Dodge/Block just for that reason.

~D

Patience is too devastating. And like someone earlier said, if it's mill vs mill, whoever pulls off patience has a greater chance of winning.

In a perfect world, opening hand and first 2 turns would be hit and run +2x scouts on rey. Then next turn drop datapad and try to get all your dice on the board for patience. 6 cards gone on turn 2. If there was a card similar to patience for yellow or red, mill decks might be OP.

Patience is too devastating. And like someone earlier said, if it's mill vs mill, whoever pulls off patience has a greater chance of winning.

In a perfect world, opening hand and first 2 turns would be hit and run +2x scouts on rey. Then next turn drop datapad and try to get all your dice on the board for patience. 6 cards gone on turn 2. If there was a card similar to patience for yellow or red, mill decks might be OP.

To a degree. Again, I'd rather run double Ackbar and Padme and have 4 dice that can be more devastating, controlling the dice. Cunning, Outpost, and Command Center combos are going to nab you 2 cards for every dice, rather than just 1. Now you're correct, you have to have the Specials rolled, etc compared to just having WHATEVER die result you want with Patience, but again, I'd rather have my dice to play with, then just remove them all and sit there and take a beating. Sure you mill me for 6, but I get my Crime Lord off. Now that characters gone after this turn. But if I'd have kept my dice, I might have been able to "Negotiate" or something else. I don't like removing my own die for that reason.

Each their own play-style though and again, it is a really good card. I just don't want to run a blue character, just for that one card. Sucks if you never draw it until late game and by then, and you possibly won't survive. And what happens if it gets discarded anyways against another mill deck? Oh well...

~D

Yes absolutely. I would love to ditch Rey and patience.

Patience is too devastating. And like someone earlier said, if it's mill vs mill, whoever pulls off patience has a greater chance of winning.

In a perfect world, opening hand and first 2 turns would be hit and run +2x scouts on rey. Then next turn drop datapad and try to get all your dice on the board for patience. 6 cards gone on turn 2. If there was a card similar to patience for yellow or red, mill decks might be OP.

To a degree. Again, I'd rather run double Ackbar and Padme and have 4 dice that can be more devastating, controlling the dice. Cunning, Outpost, and Command Center combos are going to nab you 2 cards for every dice, rather than just 1. Now you're correct, you have to have the Specials rolled, etc compared to just having WHATEVER die result you want with Patience, but again, I'd rather have my dice to play with, then just remove them all and sit there and take a beating. Sure you mill me for 6, but I get my Crime Lord off. Now that characters gone after this turn. But if I'd have kept my dice, I might have been able to "Negotiate" or something else. I don't like removing my own die for that reason.

Each their own play-style though and again, it is a really good card. I just don't want to run a blue character, just for that one card. Sucks if you never draw it until late game and by then, and you possibly won't survive. And what happens if it gets discarded anyways against another mill deck? Oh well...

~D

the possibility, of using commando raid with ackbar, and hitting either focus or mill with padme 1st turn to hit all 4-5 cards in hand could be really crippling..

Yes absolutely. I would love to ditch Rey and patience.

Same.

Patience isn't the only reason to run blue hero in a mill deck. Jedi Council, Force Protection, One with the Force, and Return of the Jedi are must includes as well. The 29 health pool is already tough to hack through quickly. Jedi Council is another good mill support card, Force Protection has a discard and two specials to shield up your characters and keep them alive even longer, One with the Force is pretty much amazing at everything, and Return of the Jedi makes it possible to hit patience 4 times! I think 3 character builds are essential to a mill strategy. 2 is simply too fragile to hold out long enough against an aggro deck.

Already playtested with Jedi Council, it's too slow. You won't need RotJ, if you pull off 2 hard Patiences, you'll see a 3rd and 4th is pointless.

I really want to build a discard deck, but I have hardly any dice/cards for that type of deck.

I'm not saying Destiny shouldn't have Milling... I'm just saying it's not what I enjoy. All the rest of you keep on milling... I'd just rather not bother trying to build a Padme/Ackbar deck any time soon.

And I hope that the meta doesn't ever get to a place where the top 16 at worlds are all mill decks.

Meh, I don't mind mill. Except in Netrunner because only the runner can win that way. In MTG it doesn't bother me, except for painter's servant + grindstone, wich isn't so much mill, more like a "aaaand your entire deck is gone" type of thing.

Oh, there are plenty of ways to go infinite in Magic. I've done it once or twice with Nekusar; Mind Over Matter and Temple Bell on turn 6 is devastating.