Well, I haven't seen the movie yet, but I just finished the book...so I can finally read this thread. The book is a pretty good read, by the same author as Twilight Company. Kind of glad now I read it first, there is a ton of character development, motivation, and backstories for the major, and several minor, characters that would be impossible to stuff into the movie. My son saw it and was not that enthused, found it rather shallow and disjointed...but the book seems to clarify it a lot. I am looking forward to the visual treat...someday...but no hurry.
FULL OF SPOILERS!!! Rogue One discussion!
Ahh could have sworn he was wearing white pants too. Well that's good.
As for Rebels, I really despise how they have screwed up the development timeline and was thankful they held to it in RO by not having interceptors, A and B wings present. I never noticed the Hammerships in Rebels, although my wife loves the show and we have seen all of them I think. Have never figured out why A wings are so prominent in Rebels as in the lore they are super expensive to build and maintain thus the Alliance, after developing them AFTER TIE Interceptors are pushed out to counter the X-wing between movies 5 and 6, never had large numbers of them. B-wings were Admiral Ackbar's pet project and were never numerous since they were also highly expensive to build. He is not an admiral yet in the time of Rebels as far as I know.
The B Wings show up in Rebels. Some backwoods mechanic slapped them together now instead of Ackbar. I'm going to assume what you are taking about is a Legends thing.
I watched the film last night and I've read through all the comments in this thread. Rogue One was pretty great and I had no complaints. It was the best Star Wars thing I've seen since the original trilogy.
I really appreciated that Gareth Edwards and the producers were trying to create a film that was set firmly within Star Wars canon but was aesthetically different enough that it had its own voice. No fanfare, no crawl, not even the words "Star Wars" on the screen, set up the idea that this was going to be a very different experience from all the other films. After the mild disappointment for The Force Awakens being an Abrams love-letter to Spielberg and Lucas rather than a completely original take, Rogue One was the SW film I needed to see if I was going to have any optimism about the film franchise moving forward.
RO was very much an action film in the vein of various 1960s and 1970s WW2 commando movies, not a fairy-tale space samurai/wizard film. Character motivation was in response to the tyranny and violence of Imperials, which is what one would expect in a war movie. Jyn's mother was executed and her father was press-ganged into Imperial service. Andor had been fighting since he was 6. Chirrut and Baze watched the vaporization of their home. Bodhi knew first-hand what the Empire could do and was terrified of it. There were no major character arcs, other than Jyn learning to fight for something else other than survival and to believe in something other than herself. And that's okay. Classic war movies were never about deep characterization. Neither is Star Wars , if we're being honest. All SW characters are base archetypes.
I liked that the Rebel Alliance felt like an actual alliance with different factions including Saw Gerrea's violent militants, the Alderaanians, the fleet command under Admiral Raddus, whatever group Senator Pamlo represented, General Merrick's pilots, and General Draven's amoral intelligence operatives and assassins. Everyone had their own needs and motivations and that felt more authentic than just a plucky band of rebels. Andor shot an informant in the back and Rebel X-Wings and Y-Wings flat out killed Imperial non-combatants in a scene that gave me chills. This was a darker, more mature version of Star Wars . Like what A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back were before Lucas began tinkering with them with the Special Editions.
Did the Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher faces look perfect? No. But they only brushed against the uncanny valley rather than diving headlong inside. Unlike Jar-Jar or CGI Jabba, they were forgivable attempts that didn't look straight-up cartoonish. Casting look-alike actors might have worked but it would have stuck out, just in a different way.
I found the Death Star terrifying in a way that I hadn't ANH. The distance shots where we saw it slowly rotating into firing position were absolutely stark. Seeing it rise over the horizon at the end of the Rebel raid and seeing Director Krennic know that his end was at hand were the most dramatic sequences I've seen in a SW movie. We didn't get to see Alderaan from its point of view in ANH but now we know what it must have been like in those final moments.
The color pallet for the film was interesting in that it was very militaristic. There was no Felucia-level neon. All the sets and external shots were heavy on the gunmetal gray, sandy brown, and olive green. The lighting was also very stark in places, especially in the final space battle. All of the ships were bright, bright white with the exception of the Rebel racing stripes. Which would make sense since you're not dealing with atmospheric effects in the vacuum of space.
The Easter Eggs, the beards, and the '70s porn mustaches made me smile and laugh; a SW movie without C-3P0 and R2D2 cameos would have been weird; and the main male characters were all swarthy and, except for Chirrut, were stubble-bearded to kingdom come. That's definitely a step away from pretty teens like Luke and Anakin. I'm of Anglo descent but I look more like Andor or Baze so it was nice to see someone who looks like me on the screen.
Now, that some time has passed, anyone else wonder how powerful grenades are?
Blow up a freighter, and armed and armored one, and make big AoE Damage on flat Terrain.
New Theory: The Deathstar didn´t shoot lasers, it shoot a grenade, the Laser was only distraction.
It likely blew up stuff inside the freighter that in turn caused the freighter to blow up. They don't armor the interior.
It likely blew up stuff inside the freighter that in turn caused the freighter to blow up. They don't armor the interior.
That's just it really. While it's never really covered in the movies; having a firefight inside a freighter is a extremely dangerous process; any shot could damage anything, and you don't use explosives in a highly pressured/lightly armoured interior without making it a write off.
I just find it funny that most of the cast was either killed with a grenade or an explosion. Being shot just isn't good enough for msot people! XD
Most people in war injured by combat are wounded or killed by shrapnel.
Yes Malachai, B wing prototypes were not even fielded until between the ESB and ROTJ nor were the super expensive and hard to maintain A-wings. A-wings were a quick counter to the TIE Interceptors which were themselves a counter to the Rebels increased use of X-wings over the older and slower Y-wings and zebras and were based on what was learned from Vader's TIE improved. A-wings after the war were replaced by more advanced and more easily maintained fighters although the existing fleet of them was maintained. B-wings were Ackbars pet project because Alliance command didn't see the point of an expensive fighter bomber when they were already stretched on resources for their existing fighter fleet. One of the reasons I only watch Rebels for the story because the timeline is all screwed up. I mess with my wife when we watch it and she says something about one of the characters and casually mention, "You know he/she is going to die, right?"
Strictly speaking, though, the timeline on Rebels isn't "all screwed up." It's the new timeline being established for the first time.
Now, there could be (and has been) discussion for days on end about whether or not the EU "should" have been dropped from canon, or whether or not one finds the new details satisfactory. But it was. So, the current writers aren't beholden to that timeline.
Edited by HappyDazeStrictly speaking, though, the timeline on Rebels isn't "all screwed up." It's the new timeline being established for the first time.
Now, there could be (and has been) discussion for days on end about whether or not the EU "should" have been dropped from canon, or whether or not one finds the new details satisfactory. But it was. So, the current writers aren't beholden to that timeline.
That doesn't mean we can judge their work in comparison to the older versions. And it doesn't mean we can't pour out scorn when it fails to measure up.Strictly speaking, though, the timeline on Rebels isn't "all screwed up." It's the new timeline being established for the first time.
Now, there could be (and has been) discussion for days on end about whether or not the EU "should" have been dropped from canon, or whether or not one finds the new details satisfactory. But it was. So, the current writers aren't beholden to that timeline.
You're right. I should have included something along the lines of, "Now, there could be (and has been) discussion for days on end about whether or not the EU "should" have been dropped from canon, or whether or not one finds the new details satisfactory. "
Oh.
Wait.
I did. ;p
Finally saw it, and I think it was great. Right up there with Empire Strikes Back .
-The crawl and the CGI wasn't bad, but I'll admit it distracted me. I suspect I won't be bothered so much when I see it again, I expect there'll be less of surprise.
-The TPK makes sense, even if it involves the Rebels crew dying off too. If Kanan is still around, it'll be very hard to explain why Luke never trained with him. Although I suppose Kanan could easily have been involved with Luke rebuilding his saber after Episode V. The biggest reason the TPK bothers me was that I sincerely expected one of the characters in Rogue One to end up being Rey's parent . That's probably off the table now.
I do love that it was a spy/war movie. I kinda wish it had been more spy and less war, more Casablanca and less Saving Private Ryan .
I also find it interesting that blunt melee weaponry still seems way more effective than blasters. K' is probably the first main character I can think of in any of the movies to die from blaster fire. I've forgotten if any of the other main characters got killed by blasters - I feel like they mostly went down to explosions. Even in the cartoons, for someone to die from blaster fire they usually need to take a whole bunch of shots. (Stormtroopers don't count; there is never any confirmation of their death, they can easily be just wounded and out of the action, like Leia was when she got shot during the Endor fight). The Jedi killed by Clones - lots of shots; that one cripple clone janitor - lots of shots; who else has been definitively killed by blaster shots?
I love the big space battle; the swarms of ties, the hammerhead, the last minute Vader appearance, the rainstorm dogfight. Wonderful.
I wish Saw could have had more screen time, same with Ursa. Give them some of the speech time.
I loved the street ambush of the tank, killing the informant, and the big shots of Jedha.
What sort of Captial Ship is floating above Jedha btw?
IIRC, it was a typical Imperial Star Destroyer.
What sort of Captial Ship is floating above Jedha btw?
Do you mean the Star Destroyer? Imperial I to be exact.
...and those Rebel ships with the X-shaped wings were X-wings.
Sorry couldn't resist I know I'm an arse.
What sort of Captial Ship is floating above Jedha btw?
Do you mean the Star Destroyer? Imperial I to be exact.
...and those Rebel ships with the X-shaped wings were X-wings.
Not exactly on topic but I figure most on here would like to know if you didn't already.
-Dislike Director Krennic's costume. He was dressed as a Grand Admiral but wasn't a Grand Admiral.
Not the same uniform. The Grand Admiral uniform was white top and bottom. Krennic's uniform was white top, black pants. That matches the uniforms we see in Ep. IV which are sometimes called Imperial Security Bureau officers.
In the novel Catalyst, Krennic is portrayed as a mixture of scientist and imperial security. He is part of the secretive, "Secret Weapons Group" which is developing the super laser for the Death Star.
Depending on how you parse the sentence (below) from Catalyst, Krennic's uniform is actually those worn by a member of the Corps of Engineers. Depending on your source, Krennic is a Director of the Special Weapons Group (it's secret, so they don't have their own uniform) or the Director of the Military (this is a screw up found in the new visual guide, in my opinion).
from Catalyst novel:
Though he wore a white tunic, publicly he was still a member of the Corps of Engineers; only his associates in the cell were aware of his duties as coordinator of the Special Weapons Group.
Am I dense or does this sentence not make any sense?
Was the intention, " Thus he wore a white tunic, publicly he was still a member of the Corps of Engineers...."?
Or, is it supposed to read as "Though he wore a white tunic (publicly he was still a member of the Corps of Engineers), only his associates in the cell were aware of his duties as coordinator of the Special Weapons Group?
Or, is the white tunic and black pants not the uniform for either the SWG or Corps of Engineers?
Edited by SturnI thought he was also in charge of security for the Death Star on top of the superlaser project. From there I assumed the white tunic signified ISB?
Could be completely wrong though.
I thought he was also in charge of security for the Death Star on top of the superlaser project. From there I assumed the white tunic signified ISB?
Could be completely wrong though.
That was my first assumption also. But, after reading Catalyst I was more confused.
Most people in war injured by combat are wounded or killed by shrapnel.
Yup, main killer and source of injuries in the modern Mideast Wars are IEDS, RPG's, Grenades. IED's being the big one. Sniping takes up 2'nd.
-Dislike Director Krennic's costume. He was dressed as a Grand Admiral but wasn't a Grand Admiral.
Not the same uniform. The Grand Admiral uniform was white top and bottom. Krennic's uniform was white top, black pants. That matches the uniforms we see in Ep. IV which are sometimes called Imperial Security Bureau officers.
In the novel Catalyst, Krennic is portrayed as a mixture of scientist and imperial security. He is part of the secretive, "Secret Weapons Group" which is developing the super laser for the Death Star.
Depending on how you parse the sentence (below) from Catalyst, Krennic's uniform is actually those worn by a member of the Corps of Engineers. Depending on your source, Krennic is a Director of the Special Weapons Group (it's secret, so they don't have their own uniform) or the Director of the Military (this is a screw up found in the new visual guide, in my opinion).
from Catalyst novel:
Though he wore a white tunic, publicly he was still a member of the Corps of Engineers; only his associates in the cell were aware of his duties as coordinator of the Special Weapons Group.
Am I dense or does this sentence not make any sense?
Was the intention, " Thus he wore a white tunic, publicly he was still a member of the Corps of Engineers...."?
Or, is it supposed to read as "Though he wore a white tunic (publicly he was still a member of the Corps of Engineers), only his associates in the cell were aware of his duties as coordinator of the Special Weapons Group?
Or, is the white tunic and black pants not the uniform for either the SWG or Corps of Engineers?
From a few pages before, in Catalyst: "Recently transferred from the Corps of Engineers to the cell's Special Weapons Group, he wore the same white tunic affected by some members of the intelligence and security services."
Later, when Has first meets Krennic, Has notes that "his uniform was all wrong."
IMO, Krennic took advantage of his assignment to SWG to change what he wore to make himself look more distinctive and important.
From a few pages before, in Catalyst: "Recently transferred from the Corps of Engineers to the cell's Special Weapons Group, he wore the same white tunic affected by some members of the intelligence and security services."
Later, when Has first meets Krennic, Has notes that "his uniform was all wrong."
IMO, Krennic took advantage of his assignment to SWG to change what he wore to make himself look more distinctive and important.
Thank you!
So, with my other quote from above, Krennic is secretly within the Special Weapons Group, still claims to be a member of the Corps of Engineers, but walks about in an ISB uniform due to his own choosing. Glad that's clear now.
I guess this is what we get with the story group when writing new canon novels. So, Rogue One had already decided on Krennic wearing the white over black uniform which other canon sources had applied to the ISB. Then, Krennic was given more of an engineering background. So the poor Catalyst author and story group is left with a convoluted way of explaining all of it within canon.
From a few pages before, in Catalyst: "Recently transferred from the Corps of Engineers to the cell's Special Weapons Group, he wore the same white tunic affected by some members of the intelligence and security services."
Later, when Has first meets Krennic, Has notes that "his uniform was all wrong."
IMO, Krennic took advantage of his assignment to SWG to change what he wore to make himself look more distinctive and important.
Thank you!
So, with my other quote from above, Krennic is secretly within the Special Weapons Group, still claims to be a member of the Corps of Engineers, but walks about in an ISB uniform due to his own choosing. Glad that's clear now.
I guess this is what we get with the story group when writing new canon novels. So, Rogue One had already decided on Krennic wearing the white over black uniform which other canon sources had applied to the ISB. Then, Krennic was given more of an engineering background. So the poor Catalyst author and story group is left with a convoluted way of explaining all of it within canon.
Yep that's what likely happened.
And it would have been simpler to just state that he was given a temporary rank in the ISB, or a temporary assignement to it. But it also shows how ambitious and insecure Krennic is that he decides to wear a more "fearsome" uniform to impress people.
Yes Malachai, B wing prototypes were not even fielded until between the ESB and ROTJ nor were the super expensive and hard to maintain A-wings. A-wings were a quick counter to the TIE Interceptors which were themselves a counter to the Rebels increased use of X-wings over the older and slower Y-wings and zebras and were based on what was learned from Vader's TIE improved. A-wings after the war were replaced by more advanced and more easily maintained fighters although the existing fleet of them was maintained. B-wings were Ackbars pet project because Alliance command didn't see the point of an expensive fighter bomber when they were already stretched on resources for their existing fighter fleet. One of the reasons I only watch Rebels for the story because the timeline is all screwed up. I mess with my wife when we watch it and she says something about one of the characters and casually mention, "You know he/she is going to die, right?"
You guys are correct, but what was it Disney said about Star Wars? Something similar to "We DGAF about anything that came before we bought it, WE SAY what is canon/official/correct now". Something like that, right?
I understand wanting to get rid of some aspects of EU, Legends, etc. Especially after reading a bunch of the WotC books and mags lately. But I think they could have kept certain parts of the story (such as the timeline on the B-wing, A-wing, TIE Interceptor, etc) without much trouble.
Then again, they wouldn't be able to show all the cool ship variants in anything set before ESB, really, so I can understand why they're tossing that along with the rest of the Old Canon. Not from a story perspective, mind you, I get it from a marketing perspective. Show people all kinds of cool new things in the movies and shows, sell kids toys of those new vehicles, etc. The only people that will care that the B-wing appears in Rebels (before the Battle of Yavin), rather than a few years into the war (RotJ), nevermind how it's now a fast-attack fighter rather than a slow bomber that can put some hurt on frigates (possibly even larger capital ships), are total Star Wars nerds. And they'll buy whatever Star Wars products are offered, regardless of how much they grumble about it.