Having spent a lot of quality time flying the lambda (with ebaffle) it's dial is fine so to me the ups dial is pure win.

The argument of +5 points = vcx is hilariously specious to me because that's like saying why fly Poe, for 3 more points you can get countess ryad with x7 or for equal points you can get the Inquisitor.

When you ignore ship role and change factions, as well as pretend 5 points isn't a huge amount then sure things look weird I guess.

Very true. No one flies a naked Ghost, but you can probably get away with flying a naked Upsilon or maybe just one with PA or FCS.

My Bombers are going to love this thing. Coordinate actions, System Officers, oh my.

Man, it's like you can't judge a ship by a single component of its construction or something.

Having spent a lot of quality time flying the lambda (with ebaffle) it's dial is fine so to me the ups dial is pure win.

The argument of +5 points = vcx is hilariously specious to me because that's like saying why fly Poe, for 3 more points you can get countess ryad with x7 or for equal points you can get the Inquisitor.

When you ignore ship role and change factions, as well as pretend 5 points isn't a huge amount then sure things look weird I guess.

The VHX and the Upsilon are two 4red dice ships with very similar dials excepts for the k-turn and 4 straight. So I think the comparison is valid. The upsilon's dial was not known until a few hours ago, so it was not silly to think it could be a dial more like the VHX... maybe with fewer sharp turn or whatever.

Last words from me on the Upsilon. Not saying its a bad ship, I get what it can do, I just saw a chance for FFG to make something else than a better Lambda (Thats Krennics Shuttle I bet)

The two tech slots right now is iffy to me. Most of the techs im not a fan of in the UPS so i'd probably only put pattern analyzer and leave the other blank for now. Neither of the two that it comes with speaks to me.

But, its a slot that is bound to get a lot of attention. You know whatever Ep8 stuff comes out (or future Scum with a tech before that) is gonna introduce more.

@clanofwolves - yes, you miss the fact that it doesn't operate solo, but as part of a fleet of other ships. It does not need to turn on the spot, because it has fighters to cover its rear. Besides, there are weight/power/structure/cost considerations and the military clearly wanted a close support/command vessel with a powerful sensor suite, not a heavy fighter.

So if it was designed as a support ship that cannot protect it's flanks or rear, but it has a TIE escort in the rear, then why is the dial not akin to a TIE's in speed? According to starwars.wikia the thing should really move on, faster than a TIE:

"The ship was propelled by two large SJFS- 200a sublight ion engines , and as most ships, was equipped with an internal hyperdrive. A warp vortex stabilizer was specially installed to help ease the ship's entrance and exit from hyperspace"

And, in contrast then, the opposing factions transport ships ARE to be usable as heavy fighters? But the Empire's designers would not see this flaw? Knowing that, in the game-space, it will NOT be surrounded by a fleet of TIEs but would be unprotected in the rear of a tiny force?

I know I'm beating a dead horse and my logic and this debate is pointless and ridiculous in itself....I just expected a wonderfully maneuverable military shuttle; especially after seeing the dials of all of large based ships over the past few waves.

I'm done. All post-release debate is futile.

Peace.

Stop with the "better than the Lambda" type. Anything is better than the Lambda. Put this ship's maneuverability up against the other large based ships designed by the mouse over the last few Waves and then type something that makes since to players in very late 2016. Keep in mind what large based ships can now do with their movements....it's not rocket-science. Well, not directly.

Sorry if I sound salty, but I felt the need to bring back real-time logic back into the thread.

OK, so we have a special transport retrofitted for bounty hunting, we have a special transport retrofitted for bounty hunting known to have guns on the broadsides, and we have a special transport retrofitted for smuggling. The first was known for flying wonky, the second has an equal dial to the UPS, and the third is the most iconic ship in the property the game is based on, and does things on screen that no other ship does. A lot of special modifications, indeed.

I miss anything?

The UPS is a stock military shuttle. It isn't specially retro-fitted to do things you wouldn't expect, so stop using that as an excuse for the other ships that are.

So the military designers knew this would come into combat situations when split second tactics might come into play and they knew it was designed to make landings right in military hot zones, but they decided it shouldn't be able to make 180 degree course corrections even when making evasive maneuvers or coming in on unknown terrain when attempting vertical landings?

I miss anything?

And so these military designers then thought, since our new shuttle cannot make 180 degree course corrections --unlike every potential enemy ship that the pilots might face-- let's also not make any protective weapons adjustments like rear guns or a turret on the bottom of the ship like most every other enemy crew carrying military ship and stinking re-purposed freighter has?

I miss anything?

@clanofwolves:

And, in contrast then, the opposing factions transport ships ARE to be usable as heavy fighters? But the Empire's designers would not see this flaw? Knowing that, in the game-space, it will NOT be surrounded by a fleet of TIEs but would be unprotected in the rear of a tiny force?

The flaw in your logic is that you're comparing a factory-standard military vessel with highly personalized and customized smuggler/bounty hunter ships (as that's what the YT-1300, YT-2400, Ghost and JM5k represent) that are nowhere near the production models.

So if it was designed as a support ship that cannot protect it's flanks or rear, but it has a TIE escort in the rear, then why is the dial not akin to a TIE's in speed? According to starwars.wikia the thing should really move on, faster than a TIE:

This quote does not say a thing about speed, only that it has two large engines (no surprise, that's a lot of mass to move).

Also, why don't you quote the opening sentence from the same wiki, which sums up the shuttle perfectly:

" An [/size] Upsilon -class command shuttle , also referred to simply as an [/size] Upsilon -class shuttle , was a multi-purpose [/size] transport utilized by the [/size] First Order as an armored shuttle for high-class dignitaries and top-ranking military officials. Armed with twin heavy laser cannons and advanced [/size] sensor suites, the [/size] Upsilon -class shuttle was able to monitor and scan enemy communications to effectively avoid hostile encounters. Inspired by decades of Imperial shuttle design, it mimicked the [/size] Lambda -class T-4a shuttle , and was upgraded with powerful technologies resulting from the acquisition of chief scientists following the collapse of the Old Empire." [/size]

From a thematic point of view, I like the fact that a shuttle requires an escort to cover against flanking attacks. With the coordinate action the shuttle has, it should even be able to provide an action to an escort that does a k-turn to handle something coming up on its six.

Ooh, I've got my non-competitive combo of the day, now! Upsilon shuttle escorted by TIE/sf fighters. They don't even need to do the k-turn in order to cover the shuttle's six! Also, very thematic!

Please, make this list - I really would like to see it, thought the same thing a few minutes before reading your post for using TIE/SF's with their rear arcs as protection!

I get what both sides are saying in this convo, but I've never assumed that such a large wingspan ship would be doing K-Turns on a dime and acting as a small aggressor fighter or anything of the sort throwing dignitaries around mid-combat (my flippant summation of this convo, not a quote). Just read the Wiki entry for it, pretty much sums it up to me (TIE/FO escort fighters, shields, jammers, countermeasures etc). Can't include it all in the game, so it's just a case of using what you DO GET with what's available to make some breaking combos instead of worrying about what you don't get. I hadn't planned to purchase it, but if this thread turns up a treat, it might look good on the tabletop/shelf

*edit, cleaned up and added a bit*

jeeeez...For the last time... nobody said it sucked!!!

Meh... 5 points more and you get a K-turning Ghost with lots of tricks up its rebel hiding place.

Well, maybe not outright saying it, but the implication is quite clear. Sounds like the old "the other factions get better toys" thing thats been going on way too much since forever.

I think a lot of you overvalue k-turns and undervalue stops. I was hoping for white turns and got them +all other turns in red. Pretty good.

From a thematic point of view, I like the fact that a shuttle requires an escort to cover against flanking attacks. With the coordinate action the shuttle has, it should even be able to provide an action to an escort that does a k-turn to handle something coming up on its six.

Ooh, I've got my non-competitive combo of the day, now! Upsilon shuttle escorted by TIE/sf fighters. They don't even need to do the k-turn in order to cover the shuttle's six! Also, very thematic!

Please, make this list - I really would like to see it, thought the same thing a few minutes before reading your post for using TIE/SF's with their rear arcs as protection!

I get what both sides are saying in this convo, but I've never assumed that such a large wingspan ship would be doing K-Turns on a dime and acting as a small aggressor fighter or anything of the sort throwing dignitaries around mid-combat (my flippant summation of this convo, not a quote). Just read the Wiki entry for it, pretty much sums it up to me (TIE/FO escort fighters, shields, jammers, countermeasures etc). Can't include it all in the game, so it's just a case of using what you DO GET with what's available to make some breaking combos instead of worrying about what you don't get. I hadn't planned to purchase it, but if this thread turns up a treat, it might look good on the tabletop/shelf

*edit, cleaned up and added a bit*

Well, I can try to make the list, but since I don't play competitively (or, really, much at all, unfortunately), the list is likely to be utterly terrible. I'm willing to make an attempt, though! Just be prepared to laugh at how bad it will be.

Flying a ship with only a forward arc and no 'turn-about' move was currently only found on the Lambda (which didn't even have a reliable white turn and was essentially just intended to be a support crew carrier).

And since this is also just a support crew carrier, there's no reason it should be any different.

It's another shuttle people. It's exactly what it's supposed to be.

This dial works very well for me. I think the Lambda, for me, probably has one of the highest kill tallies, only really beaten by Omega Leader (as most of my lists feature these two ships together, this isn't MUCH of a surprise). I don't have any problem with flying aggressively or folks getting behind it, most times.

This will do plenty of work, based on my Lambda experience, before that becomes an issue.

Big fan of the Coordinate action especially, as it means Omega Leader can be a bit more liberal in her use of actions.

Really big fan of the dial, as all I was hoping for was a "better Lambda," in terms of movement.

It's not a better Palp-Shuttle, which may confuse some folks, though.

With the reveal of that dial, I'm ready to partner it up with another big ship and I think this could be a very interesting combination of a similar Rebel counterpart I thought of recently.

RAC w/ Adaptability, HotShot CoPilot, Gunner, Rebel Captive - 58 pts

Kylo Ren w/ A Score to Settle, Agent Kallus, Sensor Jammer, Kylo Ren's Shuttle - 42 pts

RAC strips focus tokens to help keep Kylo Ren alive longer via Sensor Jammer. Rebel Captive and Kylo Ren's pilot ability make it difficult for target priority for the opponent. Kylo Ren's Shuttle with Rebel Captive in RAC will provide some stress control. Finally I was trying to find ways for Kylo Ren to have some less action dependent modifications. With "A Score to Settle" and Agent Kallus I can either stack them both on 1 ship (which is more likely) or split them up if per-say I find "A Score to Settle"/"A Debt to Pay" is too advantageous for an opposing ship. With "A Score to Settle" and Agent Kallus, if it's all on 1 ship, I get 2 focus into hit/crit results on attack so my actions can be used for Target Lock or Coordinate for Kylo Ren. I understand that it's slight counter intuitive to have Sensor Jammer with A Score to Settle on the same ship, but I think I overall have the advantage as a squad.

Not reading through all of this. Sorry I'm late to the party. Comments.

- Why on earth is the elite generic striker 20 points. FFG, hooooow do you keep getting generics wrong lately??? You could have, you know, compared it to COUNTDOWN, who is the SAME PRICE and already has his elite paid for in his ability AND is a PS HIGHER. I have no clue how they came to the conclusion that should be 20 points.

- Sarco is another example of a really odd design choice. Cool ability... Except it's on a ship with a max movement of 3, and limited at that speed anyways... Seriously couldn't have saved this one for a ship with a better dial that could actually abuse the pilot ability?

-Upsilon dial is CRAZY good in comparison to the Lambda. I honestly thought it could have gotten away with a Lambda like dial, but with this one it is going to see plenty of play, and not just for the crew slots.

It is a pretty good dial. Should be interesting.

*Looks at Upsilon dial*

Frowns

*Looks at U-Wing dial*

Plucks own eye out, for it hath offended me

I don't get it guys...why so much hype for the dial now, when it was spoiled by ffg on the last U wing article? I saw a lot of topic whit "U wing dial spoiled!" but I can't get all this enthusiams.

I mean, we know it 2 weeks ago

I don't get it guys...why so much hype for the dial now, when it was spoiled by ffg on the last U wing article? I saw a lot of topic whit "U wing dial spoiled!" but I can't get all this enthusiams.

I mean, we know it 2 weeks ago

Red manouvers do exist, you know?

The dial isnt bad at all.

I would much rather have a bulk of reds than the Lambda which is flatout denied nimble maneuvering abilities on a SHUTTLE (yaknow something that has to make minute adjustments when landing in a crowded hangar?)

Plus, it has access to Pattern Analyzers, which pretty much remove its red maneuver issues (almost, not quite).

For the 5pts more = ghost and rebel shenanigans, you are also forgetting 2 things: 1) Coordinate and 2) Imperial shenanigans. Get palpmobile out of your head, run this thing as a #2 build rather than a bareboned support shuttle and have it buff the hell out of your #1 ship.

honestly, this dial would've been perfect for the ship at hand if it had green 1-banks (specifically in the case of Major Striden packing Systems Officer and Hux, which will require green maneuvers and an ACTION in Hux's case; making 2-green banks + large base a bit of a complicated task without sensors which take FCS' auto-include spot)

that's all it's really missing

also, for comparison, the U

the U can't 1 or 3 turn AT ALL (red is still literally infinetly better as it's an option); all it gets is a four forward and green one banks

the "0-k" is a feature of its title and not dial

I'm just glad the Upsilon doesn't come out before the escalation tournament coming up. I might have bought four.

Now the real question is is it better to deploy at PS 12 further up the board and pattern analyzers, or to have gunner on your four upsilons?

Gunner isnt very useful on a 4/5 die attack. Odds are you will do 1 damage. Its pretty common to have a bad enough roll where you do 1 damage.

Gunner isnt very useful on a 4/5 die attack. Odds are you will do 1 damage. Its pretty common to have a bad enough roll where you do 1 damage.

Good point. Also the shock and awe of deploying that far up the board is hilarious

I don't get it guys...why so much hype for the dial now, when it was spoiled by ffg on the last U wing article? I saw a lot of topic whit "U wing dial spoiled!" but I can't get all this enthusiams.

I mean, we know it 2 weeks ago

Red manouvers do exist, you know?

Uh? :-/..Did you read what I wrote?

I said that it seems there's a lot of people who missed the U dial into the ffg article two weeks ago. That's not a spoiler, ffg revealed it times ago

I don't get it guys...why so much hype for the dial now, when it was spoiled by ffg on the last U wing article? I saw a lot of topic whit "U wing dial spoiled!" but I can't get all this enthusiams.

I mean, we know it 2 weeks ago

Red manouvers do exist, you know?

Uh? :-/..Did you read what I wrote?

I said that it seems there's a lot of people who missed the U dial into the ffg article two weeks ago. That's not a spoiler, ffg revealed it times ago

This thread is about the upsilon-class shuttle, not the u-wing.