guys, it has a white turn

that's all you could've wished for given that statline

rejoice, it's usable


whenever you're not shooting, you can always try to coordinate

Yeah, many of you are missing the point of this ship. Its a support piece to carry palp, coordinate actions, and maybe take the title to stress your opponent. The Lamda did a good job at this. They've given us a better Lamda. With all 3 turn options, one being white. And a 4 dice primary. This thing is going to be a monster.

"support" is a bit much, given it'll rip people in half with that primary, but it's not a VCX for sure

given it's got both coordinate and support crew that don't suck (specifically Hux but also system officer on the good major)

only real disappointment is lack of green 1-banks, which would've been nice given the large base and either Hux or expert handling kylo

So is the Lambda redundant after this?

So is the Lambda redundant after this?

I wouldn't think so. It's still way cheaper.

So is the Lambda redundant after this?

no, it's cheaper

9 points cheaper

both palp and hux will probably carry on using it to give you more points for the rest of the list

Stop with the "better than the Lambda" type. Anything is better than the Lambda. Put this ship's maneuverability up against the other large based ships designed by the mouse over the last few Waves and then type something that makes since to players in very late 2016. Keep in mind what large based ships can now do with their movements....it's not rocket-science. Well, not directly.

Sorry if I sound salty, but I felt the need to bring back real-time logic back into the thread.

Indeed. If all you want are two safe-ish crew slots to hand out conditions, tokens, and palpatine rerolls, stick with the lambda.

This is a gunboat. That forward gun alone makes it a different animal. Not to mention the strategic (rather than tactical) shenanigans you can pull with Dormitz, Hyperwave comms scanners, and co-ordinated boosts to be "on someone" before they get a chance to move.

Edit: you can already run 3 Omicrons with HLC now...

Yes, but they need special assistance to even do a 90' turn. Kylo can come 180' about in a turn (with daredevil).

Plus, 5 dice at range 1.

Plus plus, Swarm Leader on Kylo. Bring along a passel of cheap TIE/fo evade buddies, and unload a 6-dice attack whilst laughing like a drain.

Stop with the "better than the Lambda" type. Anything is better than the Lambda. Put this ship's maneuverability up against the other large based ships designed by the mouse over the last few Waves and then type something that makes since to players in very late 2016. Keep in mind what large based ships can now do with their movements....it's not rocket-science. Well, not directly.

Sorry if I sound salty, but I felt the need to bring back real-time logic back into the thread.

so called "real-time" logic is ignoring how bonkers this thing's raw stats is, especially four dice

it's a balancing factor, and the dial is consequentially very similar to the YV it imitates

Yeah, many of you are missing the point of this ship. Its a support piece to carry palp, coordinate actions, and maybe take the title to stress your opponent. The Lamda did a good job at this. They've given us a better Lamda. With all 3 turn options, one being white. And a 4 dice primary. This thing is going to be a monster.

Hehe I think you are the one missing the point, the problem is that its a better Lambda instead of something a bit more different

Stop with the "better than the Lambda" type. Anything is better than the Lambda. Put this ship's maneuverability up against the other large based ships designed by the mouse over the last few Waves and then type something that makes since to players in very late 2016. Keep in mind what large based ships can now do with their movements....it's not rocket-science. Well, not directly.

Sorry if I sound salty, but I felt the need to bring back real-time logic back into the thread.

so called "real-time" logic is ignoring how bonkers this thing's raw stats is, especially four dice

it's a balancing factor, and the dial is consequentially very similar to the YV it imitates

What am I not seeing, is this more bonkers than the VCX-100? Its better than a HLC Lambda, but thats not saying that much.

Yeah, many of you are missing the point of this ship. Its a support piece to carry palp, coordinate actions, and maybe take the title to stress your opponent. The Lamda did a good job at this. They've given us a better Lamda. With all 3 turn options, one being white. And a 4 dice primary. This thing is going to be a monster.

Hehe I think you are the one missing the point, the problem is that its a better Lambda instead of something a bit more different

it has an action that no other ship outside EPIC can take

also two tech slots

and some weird game warping pilot abilities

that's plenty different

Stop with the "better than the Lambda" type. Anything is better than the Lambda. Put this ship's maneuverability up against the other large based ships designed by the mouse over the last few Waves and then type something that makes since to players in very late 2016. Keep in mind what large based ships can now do with their movements....it's not rocket-science. Well, not directly.

Sorry if I sound salty, but I felt the need to bring back real-time logic back into the thread.

I miss anything?

The UPS is a stock military shuttle. It isn't specially retro-fitted to do things you wouldn't expect, so stop using that as an excuse for the other ships that are.

Practical expectations for the Upsilon, "If it has a white turn, it'll be useful"

Impractical expectations for the Upsilon,"if doesn't have an Aggressor like dial, it sucks!"

jeeeez...For the last time... nobody said it sucked!!!

I was hoping for a red koigram, as i'm not a good player, and lack some patience...

But i think in hands of good players, this thing will break havoc.

And not forget about the magnificient wingspan.

Stop with the "better than the Lambda" type. Anything is better than the Lambda. Put this ship's maneuverability up against the other large based ships designed by the mouse over the last few Waves and then type something that makes since to players in very late 2016. Keep in mind what large based ships can now do with their movements....it's not rocket-science. Well, not directly.

Sorry if I sound salty, but I felt the need to bring back real-time logic back into the thread.

OK, so we have a special transport retrofitted for bounty hunting, we have a special transport retrofitted for bounty hunting known to have guns on the broadsides, and we have a special transport retrofitted for smuggling. The first was known for flying wonky, the second has an equal dial to the UPS, and the third is the most iconic ship in the property the game is based on, and does things on screen that no other ship does. A lot of special modifications, indeed.

I miss anything?

The UPS is a stock military shuttle. It isn't specially retro-fitted to do things you wouldn't expect, so stop using that as an excuse for the other ships that are.

So the military designers knew this would come into combat situations when split second tactics might come into play and they knew it was designed to make landings right in military hot zones, but they decided it shouldn't be able to make 180 degree course corrections even when making evasive maneuvers or coming in on unknown terrain when attempting vertical landings?

I miss anything?

And so these military designers then thought, since our new shuttle cannot make 180 degree course corrections --unlike every potential enemy ship that the pilots might face-- let's also not make any protective weapons adjustments like rear guns or a turret on the bottom of the ship like most every other enemy crew carrying military ship and stinking re-purposed freighter has?

I miss anything?

Or just stop whinging about the fluff and accept that the reason for this decision has little to do with fluff and everything to do with game balance.

Put it this way: put a turret slot on it, you probably have to add enough points to its cost that you can't fit three of them in a list with any turret upgrade, because 3 of them with ABT would be a bit much. Which means 32 points minimum, which is probably too much.

This is the kind of design decisions that are being made here, I think.

You underestimate the coordinate action, especially on a low-PS Starkiller pilot. Being able to barrel roll someone before he moves, avoiding a block; giving a focus/TL before a red or going through a rock; stress-free PtL...

@clanofwolves - yes, you miss the fact that it doesn't operate solo, but as part of a fleet of other ships. It does not need to turn on the spot, because it has fighters to cover its rear. Besides, there are weight/power/structure/cost considerations and the military clearly wanted a close support/command vessel with a powerful sensor suite, not a heavy fighter.

You underestimate the coordinate action, especially on a low-PS Starkiller pilot. Being able to barrel roll someone before he moves, avoiding a block; giving a focus/TL before a red or going through a rock; stress-free PtL...

@clanofwolves - yes, you miss the fact that it doesn't operate solo, but as part of a fleet of other ships. It does not need to turn on the spot, because it has fighters to cover its rear. Besides, there are weight/power/structure/cost considerations and the military clearly wanted a close support/command vessel with a powerful sensor suite, not a heavy fighter.

All of this ^^

Its official. Its essentially the Imperial Ghost.

4die attack, sensors, beefy as hell, only a couple high speed maneuvers denied from the dial at all with a lot of red turns.

No 4FWD or 5K, but given its price, we'll live with that lol.

So the UPS wont be an amazing user for Systems Officer with only 4 greens, but not bad at all given the pilot that makes it range 1-3 instead of range1 so you can slow-turn and still give someone a TL.

Having spent a lot of quality time flying the lambda (with ebaffle) it's dial is fine so to me the ups dial is pure win.

The argument of +5 points = vcx is hilariously specious to me because that's like saying why fly Poe, for 3 more points you can get countess ryad with x7 or for equal points you can get the Inquisitor.

When you ignore ship role and change factions, as well as pretend 5 points isn't a huge amount then sure things look weird I guess.

That dial is certainly more decent than lambda's (anything is) but far from what I'd call "pretty **** good". As many people predicted, it's essentially Ghost's dial without a K-turn but with a stop maneuver instead. It's not bad per se, but clearing stress with 2-banks is very cumbersome on a large ship that needs to keep pointing towards the enemy. And at least Ghost can take Hera crew and K-turn. Upsilon cannot.

You could also compare it with YV-666. It's in many ways a similar dial and YV has the added advantage of being able to shoot in 180 degrees and stop twice in a row (with dampeners). Despite this, it's quite infamous for being utterly incapable of shaking anything off it's tail. Once the enemy is behind it, it can destroy it with impunity. Upsilon is going to be dangerous in the initial engagement for sure, but it will be very vulnerable to being flanked all the same.

From a thematic point of view, I like the fact that a shuttle requires an escort to cover against flanking attacks. With the coordinate action the shuttle has, it should even be able to provide an action to an escort that does a k-turn to handle something coming up on its six.

Ooh, I've got my non-competitive combo of the day, now! Upsilon shuttle escorted by TIE/sf fighters. They don't even need to do the k-turn in order to cover the shuttle's six! Also, very thematic!

It has no rear arc because Imperials don't flee.

Yeah, many of you are missing the point of this ship. Its a support piece to carry palp, coordinate actions, and maybe take the title to stress your opponent. The Lamda did a good job at this. They've given us a better Lamda. With all 3 turn options, one being white. And a 4 dice primary. This thing is going to be a monster.

Hehe I think you are the one missing the point, the problem is that its a better Lambda instead of something a bit more different

it has an action that no other ship outside EPIC can take

also two tech slots

and some weird game warping pilot abilities

that's plenty different

Exactly so. The two tech slots is going to be something which is only going to get more valuable as more stuff comes out.

Pattern Analyser essentially does the job of advanced sensors, for a point less, and leaves systems slot free for either a jammer or fire control (to taste), whilst the Hyperwave Comm Scanner removes the normal weakness of "support ships" like Omicron Group Pilots or Manaroo - that you have to set them up before the people hunting them.

I genuinely think 2-3 of these could be a genuinely dangerous force.

As noted, the only thing I really "wanted" was a white hard turn - and we've got it. Having the option of red speed 1 turns when you need to take a risk is just gravy - because you can afford to fly a lot closer to the edge of the board as a result - and Kylo having an EPT means daredevil or expert handling makes for a ship a lot more manoeuvrable than its dial alone suggests.

Besides which, imperial-only cards like rebel captive, mara jade and kylo ren's shuttle (plus tactician) allows you to dish out stress rather well, which means that a lot of ships won't be able to pull their end-around moves either.