Rules change:

When you bump a ship, both ships roll a single die for damage. The overlapping ship gains a stress.

I don't mind blocking, but let's make it something you'll have to consider instead of just blindly blocking.

This would be good for Epic too. After an entire swarm of TIEs explode into my Blockade Runner... I think there should be some consequence.

X-wing 2.0 is a ridiculous idea. This is not a game like WH40K where you can just publish new books and reuse existing models. Maybe if cardboard only expansions become very profitable in a similar product like Armada they may consider them for X-wing and maybe if they are very successful in X-wing they may consider printing Revision Kits but that's a lot of IF's and I just do not see it happening at least not with the current leadership.

Aside from that I just do not see the need for it. There are plenty of ways to adjust the game incrementally rather than completely rewriting it from the ground up.

After R1/Wave 10 drop, I'll be close to 150 individual ships - just the small and large base. I'm not counting Epic. I know full well that there's a good number of gamers who have even more than that number easily. If anyone suggests that FFG just throws the whole thing in the garbage and expect everyone to start over from scratch, and for me to throw literally hundreds and hundreds of dollars of figures out is utter insanity.

I've been playing since before the Wave 1 ships dropped, and I've entirely enjoyed the way the game has evolved, and continues to evolve. I'm not a top tier meta player, but i do like getting together with our local community at the FLGS and playing.

But a wholesale overhaul of the game including new minis to replace what I have already? No fraking way.

Now, would I like to see some changes brought in? Sure, and most of them have been touched on. Ordnance dice would be nice, to take a cue from Armada and Imperial Assault with different dice meant to do different things. Also, removing accuracy from damage. The TLT is a nice nod into three dice to hit but only one point of damage - accurate but weak. But the game has done so well from being simple to grasp, and more difficult to master. I wouldn't want to see this turn in to some rules monster, like WH40K did, where every potential event can become an argument and needing massive books and guides to try to sort out.

Making PTL baseline would just drive up the stakes in the ps war on more ships. PS9 Super Dash, PS11 Fel, etc.

Why in the hells would you give every ship PtL? Are you that addicted?

That's just exarcebating the problem.t no range modifiers, but cannon and turrets should be subject to the same modifiers as primary weapons.

Giving PTL to every ship does a few things.

Start with: it makes ships with the "Action:" header less cumbersome to use. If I can "Expose" and also focus, for instance, Expose becomes worth thinking about. Put that combo on a ship with FCS and there are some interesting decisions to make. Imagine R2D2 as an action card.

It makes stress much more of an opportunity cost. Using Corran's Double tap is an interesting decision- can I do enough damage this round to make up for doing no damage next round? Most ships don't have a dial that supports PTL all that well. So for them, giving them the option makes it a small, but interesting, decision every round. Horton with Torpedoes would be able to fire them off on round 1 of firing- but then it would be limited to a Y-Wing's 1 or 2 straight to shed that stress.

It also makes certain lower PS ships, or ships that don't have an EPT, more interesting by giving them access to a tool their higher PS siblings require. Imagine an Alpha Squadron Squint that could _actually_ make use of it's toolkit? I think it would be worth 18 points if it had PTL built in...

After R1/Wave 10 drop, I'll be close to 150 individual ships - just the small and large base. I'm not counting Epic. I know full well that there's a good number of gamers who have even more than that number easily. If anyone suggests that FFG just throws the whole thing in the garbage and expect everyone to start over from scratch, and for me to throw literally hundreds and hundreds of dollars of figures out is utter insanity.

I've been playing since before the Wave 1 ships dropped, and I've entirely enjoyed the way the game has evolved, and continues to evolve. I'm not a top tier meta player, but i do like getting together with our local community at the FLGS and playing.

But a wholesale overhaul of the game including new minis to replace what I have already? No fraking way.

Now, would I like to see some changes brought in? Sure, and most of them have been touched on. Ordnance dice would be nice, to take a cue from Armada and Imperial Assault with different dice meant to do different things. Also, removing accuracy from damage. The TLT is a nice nod into three dice to hit but only one point of damage - accurate but weak. But the game has done so well from being simple to grasp, and more difficult to master. I wouldn't want to see this turn in to some rules monster, like WH40K did, where every potential event can become an argument and needing massive books and guides to try to sort out.

If there was an X-Wing 2.0, I would be very sad. Because that would mean that I could no longer play my beloved X-Wing with lots of people and in a competitive environment, and I'd have to stop exploring all the options of the game.

I'd probably try to sell my 200+ ships. Failing that, they'd go the way of my Wh40k minis and rot somewhere in an attic or cellar.

I don't see any criticism in this thread that can't be handled in the framework of the current game without any rules changes. The rules are meanwhile clear, older cards have been errata'd to conform to the newer and clearer nomenclatures, and hardcore balance patches are few and far between. The game is as balanced and open as it probably never was since wave 2, and if you say that a TIE/sf flies like any other ship, or the TIE Striker or the Quadjumper won't be very different to fly than any ship currently available, you're playing a different game than I do.

E.g. Omega Leader is only remotely balanced because he's in a 2-attack low-HP ship. Give him the option of upgrading to a bigger hit point value and particularly a bigger attack value and he suddenly goes from annoying-but-manageable to AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHH. And that's just one single case.

Omega Leader (37) Defender

Expertise (4)

Ion Cannon (3)

TIE/D (0)

Total: 44

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Omega Ace (27) lambda

Fire-Control System (2)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Total: 36

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Juno Eclipse (26) Interceptor

Stealth Device (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Total: 31

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

The Inquisitor (33) TIE Phantom

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Rebel Captive (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 43

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

(VI puts him at PS10! And 5 die primary means you're not missing often enough to take Gunner. So you might as well add stress...)

Armor? Yes.

Which means Armor piercing on certain ships.

I love the idea of armor and armor piercing, or having broken armor. It absorbs 1 hit every attack but it is rarely found on ships.

So a reinforce action...?

Ha,yeah, i suppose thats something we've got. But it doesnt work as well for the concept of armor piercing

Yes. Basically armor is an always-on, actionless reinforce.

In my mind, some ships would have a built-in armor piercing value, and others would be able to convert a crit to a hit to gain a point of armor piercing for that attack.

Making PTL baseline would just drive up the stakes in the ps war on more ships. PS9 Super Dash, PS11 Fel, etc.

That's not anything new really. Not when we had the days of PS11 Han to beat PS9 Whisper.

Better IMO to let people take VI or Adaptability or some other EPT than always having to take PtL.

E.g. Omega Leader is only remotely balanced because he's in a 2-attack low-HP ship. Give him the option of upgrading to a bigger hit point value and particularly a bigger attack value and he suddenly goes from annoying-but-manageable to AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHH. And that's just one single case.

Omega Leader (37) Defender Expertise (4)Ion Cannon (3)TIE/D (0)Total: 44View in Yet Another Squad BuilderOmega Ace (27) lambda Fire-Control System (2)Heavy Laser Cannon (7)Total: 36View in Yet Another Squad BuilderJuno Eclipse (26) Interceptor Stealth Device (3)Autothrusters (2)Royal Guard TIE (0)Total: 31View in Yet Another Squad BuilderThe Inquisitor (33) TIE Phantom Veteran Instincts (1)Fire-Control System (2)Rebel Captive (3)Advanced Cloaking Device (4)Total: 43View in Yet Another Squad Builder

(VI puts him at PS10! And 5 die primary means you're not missing often enough to take Gunner. So you might as well add stress...)

Sabine could be spread like the plague.

I don't get why people would assume you'd have to rebuy all models in a hypothetical second edition.

Did you have to with any of the however many in GW games? Descent 2.0? Mansions of Madness 2.0?

I don't get why people would assume you'd have to rebuy all models in a hypothetical second edition.

Did you have to with any of the however many in GW games? Descent 2.0? Mansions of Madness 2.0?

You may not have to buy the specific miniature models again (depending on how a theoretical 2.0 edition is done), but all the ship cards and upgrade cards received with the expansion packs would be invalidated and useless.

Why?

Because a 2.0 edition reformats the game and is a "start over" button. Old upgrade cards may not work with the new model, and it's far easier design-wise to start with a clean slate of upgrade cards than to try and force old ones to fit into the new model or design the new model around the old cards. Ship cards from the old would be unusable in the new because price points and (possibly) stat lines would have to be changed.

No, GW players didn't have to buy all new miniatures with the new editions of their games. But it did require buying all new expensive army guide books and made some armies and factions completely unviable for play (this coming from friends and other players I've talked to who have/had played GW miniature games).

And just for reference, the Game of Thrones: The Card Game second edition LCG (by FFG) was a complete do-over. Base mechanics remain the same, but anyone who wanted to get in on the new edition had to buy all new core sets and expansion packs. Old cards did not work with the new. Not saying this would invalidate some sort of weird "cardboard and card" edition for X-Wing, but second editions are not patches. They're restarts.

Also, to make my own response to the main topic of this thread, I hope there is not a 2.0 edition of X-Wing anywhere near the horizon. I've been enjoying how the game plays and functions, but I do see where some people find a few issues here and there. I do not think the issues brought up require a full-on second edition of the game.

I don't get why people would assume you'd have to rebuy all models in a hypothetical second edition.

Did you have to with any of the however many in GW games? Descent 2.0? Mansions of Madness 2.0?

You may not have to buy the specific miniature models again (depending on how a theoretical 2.0 edition is done), but all the ship cards and upgrade cards received with the expansion packs would be invalidated and useless.

Why?

Because a 2.0 edition reformats the game and is a "start over" button. Old upgrade cards may not work with the new model, and it's far easier design-wise to start with a clean slate of upgrade cards than to try and force old ones to fit into the new model or design the new model around the old cards. Ship cards from the old would be unusable in the new because price points and (possibly) stat lines would have to be changed.

No, GW players didn't have to buy all new miniatures with the new editions of their games. But it did require buying all new expensive army guide books and made some armies and factions completely unviable for play (this coming from friends and other players I've talked to who have/had played GW miniature games).

And just for reference, the Game of Thrones: The Card Game second edition LCG (by FFG) was a complete do-over. Base mechanics remain the same, but anyone who wanted to get in on the new edition had to buy all new core sets and expansion packs. Old cards did not work with the new. Not saying this would invalidate some sort of weird "cardboard and card" edition for X-Wing, but second editions are not patches. They're restarts.

Also, to make my own response to the main topic of this thread, I hope there is not a 2.0 edition of X-Wing anywhere near the horizon. I've been enjoying how the game plays and functions, but I do see where some people find a few issues here and there. I do not think the issues brought up require a full-on second edition of the game.

Have you given any thought how much upgrades and component overall would become obsolete?

How much stuff would need to be in this 2.0 box? Unless we would have to buy dunno some faction specific new pilot boxes.

That would be nightmare for veteran player - all this cards unusable and forcing them to rebuy? That is half the playerbase gone....

But seriously anything that would make previous expansions obsolete and require buying an 'update' would be a big mistake and would cause a huge amount of their player base to up and leave

For me, X-Wing 2.0 is not an actual request, but rather a way to tear the engine of the game down, see how the parts move, and then put it back together again.

I don't think X-Wing is "broken" as it is, nor is it in need of polish. Rather, I enjoy the intellectual exercise of playing with the systems. It's the same reason I create mods for PC games.

As far as how a theoretical 2.0 would be released? I'd go with new bases- ones that could easily support Large ships putting the template against the back of the base instead of the front.

Each ship would get its own cardboard only conversion kit, with enough to run 3 models at a time. And separate kits for rereleasing all the 1.0 EPTs and such- again, cardboard only.

But to me, how they would implement a 2.0 system is far less interesting than what should be in it. I mean: why bother getting upset about the marketing of a product that doesn't exist?

Ok i didn't read all of this, but i have 2 main points:

First, pilots are balanced according to the ships they fly, Vader in a Phantom would never work. Of course, you could make categories, but to make it lore-accurate, you would have so many categories it wouldn't really make much of a difference.

Second, the beauty of this game is its (relative) simplicity. No exceedingly complicated rules and whatnot, and easy to learn and play. Adding more elements to the game would not help much.

One thing i am in favour of is a FAQ box, with updated versions of cards. For example, Heavy Scyk, Deadeye, a new Lt. Lorrir, Fel's Wrath, and updated cards and costs. And maybe some new cards. Only cardboard, no new rules or anything like that. And i want a campaign box, although sadly it won't be with the people from the X-Wing book series. (I should start a homebrew that replicates the novels).

Rules change:

When you bump a ship, both ships roll a single die for damage. The overlapping ship gains a stress.

I don't mind blocking, but let's make it something you'll have to consider instead of just blindly blocking.

This would be good for Epic too. After an entire swarm of TIEs explode into my Blockade Runner... I think there should be some consequence.

This is already a thing with huge ships. Or was there a rules change and I missed it.

Rules change:

When you bump a ship, both ships roll a single die for damage. The overlapping ship gains a stress.

I don't mind blocking, but let's make it something you'll have to consider instead of just blindly blocking.

Here at Boss central I allow highly skilled pilots to ignore the blocking thing because they would be able to do that for real.

But seriously anything that would make previous expansions obsolete and require buying an 'update' would be a big mistake and would cause a huge amount of their player base to up and leave

I disagree. I think that people would grumble and moan, and buy it anyway. By "it" I mean a 2.0 booster, which if it were me would be separate card decks for each faction, and a deck for each type of upgrade. So you'd need to buy like, half a dozen decks of varying prices to stay current.

FFG simply cannot keep pumping out new ships at the current rate. It's only been four years and they've already scraped the bottom of the barrel very, very dry. Sure, there's new ships getting added in Rebels and the new movies, but enough to support multiple waves a year?

No.

If FFG wants to keep the revenue coming in, they'll need to find another way to get money out of us. And a rebooted edition is it. That lets them slow the rate of releases, get money out of us for card decks (on which the profit margins are OUTRAGEOUS) and then continue to release ships as well. And then continue the cycle every five or six years.

It's inevitable, IMO.

Second, the beauty of this game is its (relative) simplicity. No exceedingly complicated rules and whatnot, and easy to learn and play. Adding more elements to the game would not help much.

Well, it's advertised as being simple, but in practice it's anything but. Many of the most competitive builds rely on multiple, layered interactions from many different upgrade cards, which all come from different expansion packs, and all activate according to a very particular and complicated timing sequence and key word catalogue. How many steps are there to performing an attack now? It's not just as simple as I roll red dice and you roll green dice, but that's how they sell the game.

If there was an X-Wing 2.0, I would be very sad. Because that would mean that I could no longer play my beloved X-Wing with lots of people and in a competitive environment, and I'd have to stop exploring all the options of the game.

I'd probably try to sell my 200+ ships. Failing that, they'd go the way of my Wh40k minis and rot somewhere in an attic or cellar.

I don't see any criticism in this thread that can't be handled in the framework of the current game without any rules changes. The rules are meanwhile clear, older cards have been errata'd to conform to the newer and clearer nomenclatures, and hardcore balance patches are few and far between. The game is as balanced and open as it probably never was since wave 2, and if you say that a TIE/sf flies like any other ship, or the TIE Striker or the Quadjumper won't be very different to fly than any ship currently available, you're playing a different game than I do.

Yup. That's me too. Haslo said it very eloquently and I would echo what he said.

This game does not need 2.0 rules. At all. Yes, there are rules tweaks that need to occur from time to time, but that's all.

Having pilots independent of ships would be awful, broken trash. This is what is done in the Star Trek miniatures rip off of X-Wing miniatures, and that game is terrible. I don't want this game to be terrible.

I'm all for x wing 2.0 and I'd bet the vast majority of people who said they would quit wouldn't. It's just like all the people moving to Canada when trump was elected. People will grumble, cry, and moan but they'll buy it and keep playing.

I'm all for x wing 2.0 and I'd bet the vast majority of people who said they would quit wouldn't. It's just like all the people moving to Canada when trump was elected. People will grumble, cry, and moan but they'll buy it and keep playing.

I'm all for x wing 2.0 and I'd bet the vast majority of people who said they would quit wouldn't. It's just like all the people moving to Canada when trump was elected. People will grumble, cry, and moan but they'll buy it and keep playing.

I beg to differ. Alot of us have spent alot of hard earned money on this game and if FFG causes us to have to buy a '2.0' pack(s) to stay current (and in doing so causes the things we already spent money in to become obsolete and unusable) they would cause many, including myself, to leave. That is just bad business.

Then models wouldn't be unusable. They would just have to find a way to get new cards and cardboard out which isn't that hard. Miniature games do this all the time. 40k, Warhammer, infinity, warmachine, hordes, and many others. It's the exact opposite of bad business.