I asked my wife yesterday what her favorite part of the movie was. She said, "Everybody died."

I couldn't get any more explanation out of her than that, but she staunchly disagreed with my esteem of Vader as the climax the entire movie was building toward.

The only problem I had was with how hard the Hammerhead hit the star destroyer. It was really the only fault in the scene. There was no need for it to ram so hard. That really only risked damaging the corvette itself. Believing that the Hammerhead had the structural integrity to withstand that impact was big suspension of disbelief (especially when the transport at the end shatters in pieces when it hits Vader's (shields or no shields, we see that the Hammerhead only does superficial damage to the star destroyer upon impact, which means a significant amount of the force of the impact was distributed back into the Hammerhead). (Simply put) Moving the star destroyer is just a matter of applying thrust, since it was not going to be providing any resistance if it was completely dead in space. Obviously, we also have to believe the Hammerhead has the structural integrity to withstand the stress of applying that much thrust to that much mass.

The rest is Star Wars physics, lol. Where everybody flies around like airplanes in space, and ships only fall out of orbit when they've been critically damaged.

So yeah, the whole scene is a little silly, but it's Star Wars. A little scientific silliness is just part of the bargain.

Actually force = mass x acceleration ²

WHAT?

Um, the mention of Bodhi's death brings another detail to mind: when he has the option of staying low or making a dash for the shuttle. It just occured to me that he had the option of staying low, abandonning the Rebels, feigning ignorance and maybe, maybe he would have survived. He had the uniforms, the codes, the procedures, he had a file as a pilot and odds are that news of his capture / potential deffection would not have reached that outpost just yet.

In that moment where he hesitated, he actually had a meaningful choice to make. It does make his death even more tragic than I originally thought.

And I doubt that they needed any energy to stay in orbit, it seemed like a rather stable geostationary orbit.

Reminder: any action with a geostationary orbit will cause the object to fall out of orbit. Pushing it towards a planet, for example..

Or shooting the guns requires another action to counter the reaction of the guns recoil. Or the mass lost when they launch fighters, or when they take hits or one of the other million things that can cause orbital decay. Physics are hard and in a universe with "interial dampeners" saying something isn't reacting real enough in space is the ultimate nitpick.

Kerbal Space Program player here... actually, high orbits like gesynch are difficult to deorbit. However, any nudge ruins the special geo-synchonisity of that orbit, which can have effects relative to the planet in proportion to the size of the push.

You've never gotten one of your guys lost in space because you let go of the ladder for just a second? Lucky you, I can never get the two back together again.

Only when the ship trajectory is right at a SoI interface so the camera moves to a new perspective whenever the kerbal jets foreward or back.

I haven't read a lot of this thread, mostly the first half.. and skimmed the rest.... but

I really enjoyed the movie overall. I felt it was very well done and executed. It felt like it linked into the original trilogy very well and did what it was supposed to do. i have not read Catalyst, but I feel like I need to now.

Starting from the beginning:

- No "STAR WARS" title and no "star wars" music was very disorienting and broke the magic for me right off the bat. Having the "a long time ago...." was just a tease. I understand why they did this, to break it away from the "main story" but I think it was too effective.

- the Music was star wars like enough to set the stage "Star Wars" but it wasn't "Star Wars Music"... I don't know how to explain it. The music was very good, very well composed, felt star wars enough to know it's a star wars movie, but not enough to feel immersive in my opinion.

- Jyn and her family have a great introduction, and you get a very good sense of why Jyn is so pained and doesn't give a crap about anyone other than herself. The turning part for sure is the message from her dad, and you really see the change in her after seeing that message. It's what takes her from being a rebellious, don't give a **** about anyone but me to a "lets save the galaxy." I felt this major character change was very well executed.

- Cassian, a character I didn't think I would like based on the hype machine. But after his introduction scene I felt this guy is a total bad-as* and I want to know about why he doesn't trust anyone and why he's so cutthroat. I'm disjointed we didn't get more of that, just hints of it. There is a much deeper character here, and I want to know more. Easily my favorite character... until he came back from the dead and all of a sudden is in love with Jyn. that was so forced... what crap.

- K2-S0... was ridiculous. His "no look" kills started getting cheesy at the end, but he is a work of art.

- I really liked Baze and Chirruit (sp?). They were likable, and like Cassian I would love more backstory on them. The interactions between them and the team are interesting and entertaining. They could have been fleshed out a bit more. Some fun comedy here,.

- X-wings are awesome. enough said

-U-Wing is pretty wicked too... but if they were at Yavin, why do we not see them ever again... I wonder if we will see a new one in Ep8/9 that would be kinda cool. There was not much need for them in 4 and 6. but maybe they could have been useful at Hoth

Xwings are awesome. So are Wings but let's face it, Gold Squadron totally stole the show as far as fighters go!

Did not like the SD getting decapitated, I would have been OK with them driving it down into the shield but taking out both was absurd. Ending slaughter was pretty good but I would have preferred it being Vader fighting to the bridge of the ship while they desperately transmit to the Tantive which is on the fringes of the system as opposed to in the belly of the capital ship. It makes Leia claiming she is on a diplomatic mission very questionable now that Vader watched the ship fly away.

It makes Leia claiming she is on a diplomatic mission very questionable now that Vader watched the ship fly away.

That claim was always a farce. She was as Vader said on no mercy mission, she was part of the Rebel Alliance and was trying to grasp at any straw she could to continue with her mission.

Chittur, when telling the stormtroopers to let Jyn and Cassian go, sounded a lot like Obi Wan at that moment (and a lot of the stormtroopers' lines were in the OT).

-U-Wing is pretty wicked too... but if they were at Yavin, why do we not see them ever again... I wonder if we will see a new one in Ep8/9 that would be kinda cool. There was not much need for them in 4 and 6. but maybe they could have been useful at Hoth

It was probably too cold for the Hueys on Hoth, or stashed elsewhere with the main fleet. Rebellion in this movie is only slightly larger than the Resistance in TFA . They couldn't even evacuate the Rebel base due to a lack of ships after this (why else would they stay put when a senior member is captured)

It makes Leia claiming she is on a diplomatic mission very questionable now that Vader watched the ship fly away.

That claim was always a farce. She was as Vader said on no mercy mission, she was part of the Rebel Alliance and was trying to grasp at any straw she could to continue with her mission.

The thing is, if that's the case, the real problem with it is Vader explaining to his officer buddy how he traced the Rebel spies to her.

The guy had to be standing there like Wayne when Phil was telling how great Gasworks was.

"I know man. We were there."

Any way we slice it up, the end of Rogue One is at odds with the dialog at the start of A New Hope. It's not awful, but it's impossible to argue there aren't serious inconsistencies caused by having Princess Leia's ship present at the Scarif battle. The plans were never beamed to Leia's ship. Darth Vader saw them carried on board. He didn't trace the Rebel spies to her. He murderized them with lightsabers after catching them in the act. We can write off Leia's feeble excuses as last-ditch efforts, but they sound really dumb in context, lol.

The original movie seemed to establish that Leia was using her diplomatic cover to hide the plans. Rogue One blew that entire excuse up.

I still loved Rogue One, but that was a serious storytelling misstep. We're getting in prequel territory trying to make up excuses as to why it wasn't awful that Yoda and Chewbacca were homeboys, even though Chewbacca seems to think it's entirely uninteresting that Obi Wan Kenobi is a Jedi.

Vader doesn't know what ship the plans were handed off to - he can't see very much through that airlock window.

Once he gets back to his ship's bridge he can find out more.

Let's remember that all Vader saw was a few rebels with the plans board a CR-90 (one of the most common ships in the galaxy mind you). That's it . I doubt he could see the markings of the ship from the back of the engine block, and he has NO reason to believe that Leia is on board. There probably were transmissions to the ship to confirm that they indeed had the plans.

I will agree that Leia herself being there was a bit stupid, I would've written her in as a hologram telling the captain to rendezvous with her ship over Tatooine.

And to be fair the plans were beamed to the ship the CR-90 was docked with.

29 pages of the pickiest nitpicks. Nothing in R1 was like the horrible continuity snarls from the 'other' prequels:

Introducing Qui Gon Jinn as Kenobi's actual master instead of Yoda.

Padme dying right after birthing the twins (Leia you are such a liar)

R2 and 3po being present at way too many pivotal points for characters to not react to them

Kenobi meeting Anakin at age 9(!) and claiming he was a great pilot and cunning warrior, and how great the force as with him. At 9. Old Ben, you are such a liar.

R1 is clean of continuity sins as far as I'm concerned.

We can write off Leia's feeble excuses as last-ditch efforts, but they sound really dumb in context, lol.

To me they always came off as someone lying through their teeth... I mean even as far back as '78. She got caught red handed, she knew it, he knew it. It's like when a cop pulls you over and you say you were doing 55, when you were really doing 70.

I'm guessing they crashed their last U-wings in the course of this film, so none left for the OT.

A lot of things died. Rogue squad vs 3 chuffing big walkers really did make them seem like 100 fellas.

When is Rogue 2 out?

It makes Leia claiming she is on a diplomatic mission very questionable now that Vader watched the ship fly away.

That claim was always a farce. She was as Vader said on no mercy mission, she was part of the Rebel Alliance and was trying to grasp at any straw she could to continue with her mission.

The thing is, if that's the case, the real problem with it is Vader explaining to his officer buddy how he traced the Rebel spies to her.

The guy had to be standing there like Wayne when Phil was telling how great Gasworks was.

"I know man. We were there."

Any way we slice it up, the end of Rogue One is at odds with the dialog at the start of A New Hope. It's not awful, but it's impossible to argue there aren't serious inconsistencies caused by having Princess Leia's ship present at the Scarif battle. The plans were never beamed to Leia's ship. Darth Vader saw them carried on board. He didn't trace the Rebel spies to her. He murderized them with lightsabers after catching them in the act. We can write off Leia's feeble excuses as last-ditch efforts, but they sound really dumb in context, lol.

The original movie seemed to establish that Leia was using her diplomatic cover to hide the plans. Rogue One blew that entire excuse up.

I still loved Rogue One, but that was a serious storytelling misstep. We're getting in prequel territory trying to make up excuses as to why it wasn't awful that Yoda and Chewbacca were homeboys, even though Chewbacca seems to think it's entirely uninteresting that Obi Wan Kenobi is a Jedi.

pew pew

pew pew pew

kill the government officials coming through that door on sight

And yeah, the ambassador herself:

But, Alderaan is a peace loving planet, where everyone greets each other by busting a cap in your ass.

Copy pasting this here since the other thread in the off topic seems to be dead:

Initial thoughts: Awesome movie. I loved it. I even watched it twice in a 12 hour span, I couldn't even tell that Tarkin was CGI the first time around because I saw it in 3D (which I do not recommend). K2, Krenic, Baze and Chirrut were my favorite characters in that order. My girlfriend and I also really loved the diversity of the cast, rather than just white and black and American and British characters, we also saw Chinese, Middle Eastern, Latin American and Scottish and Irish (Rebels on Scarif) characters with their accents in full. The second half of the movie was absolutely spectacular! The fighting, the duress of getting the plans, the space battle, Vader, I loved it all!

However, after seeing it a second time, there are plenty of criticisms I have for it:

-The first half of the movie felt rushed and didn't give us time to flesh out details. I feel like Forrest Whitaker was cut short as Saw Guerrera, he deserved more dialogue in order to understand the severity of his presence rather than relying on the ambush scene to reveal/add to his character. Also, stuffing Krenic's arc, Jyn's origins and the Rebel operations in the first half, I kinda wish there was more time spent on answering more how, why, and when questions to fully illustrate the plot rather than jump-here-jump-there, Death Star! Even if there was a small dialogue between Chirrut, Baze and Bodhi, it would've given them a little more face than the monk, the gunner and the pilot. Even Jyn and Kassian's relationship felt like a flipped switch rather than a naturally developed trust required for a suicide mission. A lot of the characters end up feeling flat and hard to care for when they die in the end.

-This is gonna be a bad one: I felt like the trailers totally mislead me. I know trailers really shouldn't have an influence to the final product, but there were a lot of things we missed out on that seems like they tried selling to us. For example, their is a dialogue in the trailer of Jyn getting scolded by the Alliance, and her saying "I rebel." I hated that line, but it made Jyn seem like more of an extremist Rebel working against the bureaucracy of a sluggish rebellion. I found it odd that she went from feeling very indifferent towards the Rebellion and apathetic to the Empire in the first half, but suddenly becomes inspired and motivated to rebel at the start of the second half before they leave Yavin. Sure, her dad dies and she sees a city being blown up, but she doesn't seem like a very convincing character. In fact, I think she should've been pissed at the Rebels for killing her father. Also, there were some scenes like the burning farmhouse, or Krenic wading through the waters of Scarif with bodies of Stormtroopers and Rebels floating around him that seem to have been cut from the film as well.

-Easter eggs. It was weird seeing the dudes from the Mos Eisley bar, but then it got tiresome with the mentioning of "General Syndulla" and seeing R2 and 3PO in the hangar. I thought the Stormtroopers mentioning the outdated T-15 was hilarious. But other than that, all the throwbacks to everything was just a mumble and groan to me. It was almost as bad as JJ forcing all the Beastie Boys easter eggs into TFA. You can give us Blue Squadron and mention of the Rebels franchise, but you can't mention Porkins going in for a Y-Wing bombing run for **** sake?

I really did enjoy the movie, despite my deluge of criticism above. It's just that I wanted more, and I usually don't because I like mysticism and ambiguity in stories that utilize it to its advantage as a literary device (like how we know nothing about Rey and Finn from the movies). But I think when the plot to the movie being made has been spoiled 40 years ago, it would be okay to go into more detail, more screen time and more character development than just "funny blind Force-monk beats Stormtroopers" or "old extremist dude no want to talk to us and that's the only reason why Jyn is in this movie." I would've liked another hour of screen time, if not a two-part film, but that's just me.

Still an 8/10 for me though!

We can write off Leia's feeble excuses as last-ditch efforts, but they sound really dumb in context, lol.

To me they always came off as someone lying through their teeth... I mean even as far back as '78. She got caught red handed, she knew it, he knew it. It's like when a cop pulls you over and you say you were doing 55, when you were really doing 70.

Yeah, but when your cover is "What? I've just been hanging out here on my way to Alderaan", it's a bad lie.

When your cover is "What? No, I swear that wasn't us blasting away from the battle of Scarif as you tried to mow us down with a lightsaber", it's a different level of feeble. Not to mention Darth Vader doesn't call her on it. And, again, we come back to the fact that the plans weren't beamed. And he didn't trace any Rebel spies to her. And his buddy seemed to have no idea that he had just been at the battle of Scarif chasing this specific ship.

I mean, the guys on the Death Star had heard about the Millenium Falcon and knew the ship matched its description of the one blasting its way out of Mos Eisley. Now they can't identify the Tantive IV?

This be prequel-excuses territory, mateys. Next let's talk about how Anakin Skywalker invented C3PO but never recognized him, and how that was totally cool.

It's okay guys. We can admit Rogue One has flaws. They won't take away your Star Wars license, lol.

Actually force = mass x acceleration ²

The force is actually less important in this case than the kinetic energy imparted which is equal to the mass of the projectile x velocity ² .

What this means in practice is that as long as the Hammerhead had enough to build up speed, the collision between the 2 ISDs should have been suitably spectacular, especially as one of them was unshielded. We don't know exactly how effective particle shielding is in SW since asteroids seem to make quite a mess when they hit the ISDs in ESB.

Again:

F=ma

a= F/m

m= F/a

F is a constant here, its the thruster output of that corvette. Changing the mass only reduce the acceleration.

If the corvette accelerates for 10 seconds while pushing the star destroyer or not makes no difference for the kinetic energy. The mass is lower in one case, which is perfectly compensated by higher acceleration. Or the acceleration is lower, which gets compensated by a higher mass. The only thing different would be penetration power as Force per m² would be higher which is harder for shields to deal with as we have seen in the very same movie when they punched a hole into the planetary shield. ;-)

Anyway, I gonna drop this.It's not important anyway.

Actually force = mass x acceleration ²

The force is actually less important in this case than the kinetic energy imparted which is equal to the mass of the projectile x velocity ² .

What this means in practice is that as long as the Hammerhead had enough to build up speed, the collision between the 2 ISDs should have been suitably spectacular, especially as one of them was unshielded. We don't know exactly how effective particle shielding is in SW since asteroids seem to make quite a mess when they hit the ISDs in ESB.

Again:

F=ma

a= F/m

m= F/a

F is a constant here, its the thruster output of that corvette. Changing the mass only reduce the acceleration.

If the corvette accelerates for 10 seconds while pushing the star destroyer or not makes no difference for the kinetic energy. The mass is lower in one case, which is perfectly compensated by higher acceleration. Or the acceleration is lower, which gets compensated by a higher mass. The only thing different would be penetration power as Force per m² would be higher which is harder for shields to deal with as we have seen in the very same movie when they punched a hole into the planetary shield. ;-)

Anyway, I gonna drop this.It's not important anyway.

It's no surprise that the DAGGER SHAPED ISD can SLICE through another ship. The biggest takeaway from the movie is WHY do the Imps love to keep their ships so close together that collision is all but guaranteed in battle. (Reference ESB)

We can write off Leia's feeble excuses as last-ditch efforts, but they sound really dumb in context, lol.

To me they always came off as someone lying through their teeth... I mean even as far back as '78. She got caught red handed, she knew it, he knew it. It's like when a cop pulls you over and you say you were doing 55, when you were really doing 70.

Yeah, but when your cover is "What? I've just been hanging out here on my way to Alderaan", it's a bad lie.

When your cover is "What? No, I swear that wasn't us blasting away from the battle of Scarif as you tried to mow us down with a lightsaber", it's a different level of feeble. Not to mention Darth Vader doesn't call her on it. And, again, we come back to the fact that the plans weren't beamed. And he didn't trace any Rebel spies to her. And his buddy seemed to have no idea that he had just been at the battle of Scarif chasing this specific ship.

I mean, the guys on the Death Star had heard about the Millenium Falcon and knew the ship matched its description of the one blasting its way out of Mos Eisley. Now they can't identify the Tantive IV?

This be prequel-excuses territory, mateys. Next let's talk about how Anakin Skywalker invented C3PO but never recognized him, and how that was totally cool.

It's okay guys. We can admit Rogue One has flaws. They won't take away your Star Wars license, lol.

I seriously don't understand the fuss of this. Sure, Leia Shouldn't have been at Scarif, but you can't say that Vader knew it was the Tantive IV just by looking at the ship. It's like getting a glimpse of a liscence plate. You don't know who owns that specific vehicle until you investigate it further.