I was left thinking why 3PO and R2 got on a Corvette that was docked in a capital ship that was heading into battle. I also wondered how quickly Evazan left Jedha to get to Tatooine. Must have been on his way to his ship?

The Tantive IV was on a mission to Tatooine before the Rebels committed to Scarif. Plans changed. Wouldn't be surprised if that Mon Calamari admiral jumped the fleet to Scarif before it had a chance to undock.

We also don't know for certain it was docked at the start of the battle: it could have docked during the battle when it was clear the flagship wasn't getting out of there.

I thought it was about the hammerhead cruiser scene.

That's what I was discussing, anyway.

The hammerhead cruiser scene is just a little cringe worthy. I am fine with that, it a little bit of giant a plothole, but hey, its star wars, it's fine. Though it adds up with all the other silly, illogical things which break universe internal consistency.

Internal consistency? The Star Destroyer they rammed was dead in the water, it wouldn't work on an operational one. It was probably taking all the backup power it had not to fall out of orbit.

There may be a real physics argument against it but internally it seemed okay.

And it did work on the second one too. Remember, both star destroyers explode from the kinetic force of a single hammerhead corvette giving them a nudge.

And I doubt that they needed any energy to stay in orbit, it seemed like a rather stable geostationary orbit. Though rather irrelevant point as the corvette was able to push it so forcefully that this force was enough to destroy both ISDs. The ionized one and the still operational one which seemed to have still its shields and tractor beams operational.

And sure, tractor beams are not meant to catch other ISDs, but the force in this case involved is just the force of that corvette. Tractor beams not working on ships which fit into the ISDs hangar either? Not even a little, not even when all batteries combined? Not even worth trying ;-)

SEApocalypse..

Can I ask how old you are? Not as an attack at all, I'm just mystified that the PT can be more Star Wars to you than the new films and in particular Rogue One. I'm 37 so grew up as a little un watching the OT on VHS at EVERY opportunity. Back to back on almost every Saturday morning (being a neglected child had its silver lining!) is how I developed my obsession.

If your a fair bit younger than me and the PT was perhaps your original exposure to the madness that is Star Wars fandom it would explain a lot about the difference in opinion I think.

I was as excited as anyone going in to TPM and sorely disappointed when I had processed it so I do understand how not all Star Wars is equal in people's minds.

Nope, I am just as old as you. And don't get me wrong, JJ was not a good character in TPM, even when TCW made him into a great character for me.

And iirc those terrible Ewok movies were my first introduction into star wars for me. I was 6 or so and Caravan of Courage was a terrifying movie experience for me (but I still loved it). So I guess as kids movie they worked a lot better, and if Ewoks can deal with those monsters than stormtroopers who are just men in white armor should have been a piece of cake anyway. So, I was not only in the right age of RotJ, but as well equipped with the right knowledge how badass Ewoks are and how dangerous Endor is when I did see the OT for the first time.

So the Ewoks never bothered me at all. Nor did Gungans, they are just another of those odd things in star wars.

And it did work on the second one too. Remember, both star destroyers explode from the kinetic force of a single hammerhead corvette giving them a nudge.

On the contrary. Neither of them explodes, both of them are disabled and fall into the shield gate.

It was more than just a nudge.

And it wasn't just to force of the corvette, it was the force of an entire star destroyer. Momentum is a thing.

I don't disagree that it was a bit of a dumb scene, albeit it was fun, but you do seem to be going out of your way to find problems with the movie.

The Tantive and Leia. It's the biggest issue I have with the film. Just felt lazy. There is no good reason for Leia to be there.

If the Tantive had been where it was and ran off and picked up Leia then fine. It's not the Tantive itself. It's a ship that can fight so has as much reason as any other ship to be involved I. That sense.

But there is literally no good reason given for Leia to be on a ship in a warzone at that point.

We can head canon our reasons (I love Star wars but we really ought to be good at that by now lol) but they are all bad reasons!

If we says it's an all hands on deck change of plans to throw the ship in with the fleet, I'd have been happier seeing the Tantive jump out to Tatooine with the plans and have Leia rendezvous there to have them handed to her.

That delay could then be used to explain how Vader catches up with them instead of them just running and coming back for Obi-Wan once the plans are safely delivered.

Oh well we are stuck with it now, I'm hoping something comes along to give a decent canon explanation.

I thought it was about the hammerhead cruiser scene.

That's what I was discussing, anyway.

The hammerhead cruiser scene is just a little cringe worthy. I am fine with that, it a little bit of giant a plothole, but hey, its star wars, it's fine. Though it adds up with all the other silly, illogical things which break universe internal consistency.

Internal consistency? The Star Destroyer they rammed was dead in the water, it wouldn't work on an operational one. It was probably taking all the backup power it had not to fall out of orbit.

There may be a real physics argument against it but internally it seemed okay.

And it did work on the second one too. Remember, both star destroyers explode from the kinetic force of a single hammerhead corvette giving them a nudge.

And I doubt that they needed any energy to stay in orbit, it seemed like a rather stable geostationary orbit. Though rather irrelevant point as the corvette was able to push it so forcefully that this force was enough to destroy both ISDs. The ionized one and the still operational one which seemed to have still its shields and tractor beams operational.

And sure, tractor beams are not meant to catch other ISDs, but the force in this case involved is just the force of that corvette. Tractor beams not working on ships which fit into the ISDs hangar either? Not even a little, not even when all batteries combined? Not even worth trying ;-)

SEApocalypse..

Can I ask how old you are? Not as an attack at all, I'm just mystified that the PT can be more Star Wars to you than the new films and in particular Rogue One. I'm 37 so grew up as a little un watching the OT on VHS at EVERY opportunity. Back to back on almost every Saturday morning (being a neglected child had its silver lining!) is how I developed my obsession.

If your a fair bit younger than me and the PT was perhaps your original exposure to the madness that is Star Wars fandom it would explain a lot about the difference in opinion I think.

I was as excited as anyone going in to TPM and sorely disappointed when I had processed it so I do understand how not all Star Wars is equal in people's minds.

Nope, I am just as old as you. And don't get me wrong, JJ was not a good character in TPM, even when TCW made him into a great character for me.

And iirc those terrible Ewok movies were my first introduction into star wars for me. I was 6 or so and Caravan of Courage was a terrifying movie experience for me (but I still loved it). So I guess as kids movie they worked a lot better, and if Ewoks can deal with those monsters than stormtroopers who are just men in white armor should have been a piece of cake anyway. So, I was not only in the right age of RotJ, but as well equipped with the right knowledge how badass Ewoks are and how dangerous Endor is when I did see the OT for the first time.

So the Ewoks never bothered me at all. Nor did Gungans, they are just another of those odd things in star wars.

Fair enough. Funny how we all see things differently!

And I doubt that they needed any energy to stay in orbit, it seemed like a rather stable geostationary orbit. Though rather irrelevant point as the corvette was able to push it so forcefully that this force was enough to destroy both ISDs. The ionized one and the still operational one which seemed to have still its shields and tractor beams operational.

A stable orbit while maneuvering and being hit by who knows how many missiles, torpedoes and turbolaser blasts? What's to say the disabled Star Destroyer wasn't holding its position on backup power and the ram sent it into freefall?

Star Destroyers have systems to forcefully stay in place: they quite happy hover over Lothal and Jedha. When those systems go down they fall.

And sure, tractor beams are not meant to catch other ISDs, but the force in this case involved is just the force of that corvette. Tractor beams not working on ships which fit into the ISDs hangar either? Not even a little, not even when all batteries combined? Not even worth trying ;-)

Force equals mass times acceleration, no? The ISD is hit by another ISD. The force is the mass of the Star Destroyer times the acceleration of the Star Destroyer.

What you're actually questioning is the acceleration a small corvette can impart to a Star Destroyer and the answer to that is until it runs out of fuel.

The force the ISD hits the other ISD with is the force imparted by the corvette running its engines at full blast into the disabled ISD for long enough to get it up to speed.

But there is literally no good reason given for Leia to be on a ship in a warzone at that point.

Maybe the Tantive IV got dragged along: the Mon Cal admiral jumped to the battle before it could undock. It stays docked to protect it and then becomes an impromptu lifeboat.

And I doubt that they needed any energy to stay in orbit, it seemed like a rather stable geostationary orbit.

Looked a bit close when compared to real geostationary orbits. "Hovering on repulsorlifts" seems to me more likely.

And it did work on the second one too. Remember, both star destroyers explode from the kinetic force of a single hammerhead corvette giving them a nudge.

On the contrary. Neither of them explodes, both of them are disabled and fall into the shield gate.

It was more than just a nudge.

And it wasn't just to force of the corvette, it was the force of an entire star destroyer. Momentum is a thing.

I don't disagree that it was a bit of a dumb scene, albeit it was fun, but you do seem to be going out of your way to find problems with the movie.

Momentum is a thing, but the momentum in this case is just the force of an constantly accelerating hammerhead. The mass which stores the energy is absolutely irrelevant for this. The kinetic energy is ONLY the energy from the corvette. That is all the energy stored in that ISD.

And both blow up once they hit the shield and both got teared apart before that. So yeah, they exploded because of that.

Force equals mass times acceleration, no? The ISD is hit by another ISD. The force is the mass of the Star Destroyer times the acceleration of the Star Destroyer.

Correct and the only source for acceleration is the engine of the hammerhead. If it use its thruster output for 10s on its own mass and achieve higher acceleration or if it transform this into a lower acceleration on the bigger mass of the star destroyer is irrelevant.

The kinetic energy is exactly the same.

Or in other words neither accelerating nor mass is relevant, because the force here is static, it is the force the thrusters of the corvette which puts out a certain amount of force per second. Apparently 10s of that is enough to break the shields and the hull of an ISD just fine.

Rogue two we see hammerheads screaming allahu akbar and taking out most of the 24,000 imperial star destroyers which explains why only so few are left for endor ^-^

And the Hammerhead is actually called Hammerhead Corvette! Next Rebel epic for sure.

Amazing film! That final sequence with Darth Vader is the Star Wars best scene ever!

Anakin was a lot faster and flashier in the other prequels. The whole scene was just CGI fanservice, which is fine, but it was dragged out and unbelievable on the top of it, which was super silly. It was basically a cheap movie trick.

I would like to say "glad it worked for you", but because those cheap tricks work so well, we keep seeing them over and over and over again in passable, but mostly uninteresting movies. So am happy for you, but still would prefer that people would not be so happy, about so cheap fan service scenes.

Wow, I mean it is almost like he is 30 years older, has lost his limbs and needs an artificial breather....

Honestly how can he be the fast and flashy Anakin from the prequels in that suit?

Once you get a big boulder rolling, it's pretty hard to stop it.

We've all seen those men pulling jumbojets way back when haven't we? And a tug is much much smaller than the boats it usually pushes. But once a big boat is pushed, it pretty much stays pushed if there's nothing strong enough to stop it.

So yeah, the Hammerhead pushing the ioned SD into another SD made good sense to me. What didn't make good sense was for both SD's to stay so close together they'd block a good deal of their own firing arcs. Split up, get a broadside of each of them on the MC75, or something. That shield platform was in no trouble.

And the Hammerhead is actually called Hammerhead Corvette! Next Rebel epic for sure.

Amazing film! That final sequence with Darth Vader is the Star Wars best scene ever!

Anakin was a lot faster and flashier in the other prequels. The whole scene was just CGI fanservice, which is fine, but it was dragged out and unbelievable on the top of it, which was super silly. It was basically a cheap movie trick.

I would like to say "glad it worked for you", but because those cheap tricks work so well, we keep seeing them over and over and over again in passable, but mostly uninteresting movies. So am happy for you, but still would prefer that people would not be so happy, about so cheap fan service scenes.

Wow, I mean it is almost like he is 30 years older, has lost his limbs and needs an artificial breather....

Honestly how can he be the fast and flashy Anakin from the prequels in that suit?

Darth Vader was always this unstoppable juggernaut - you never see him running, jumping and ducking in the OT. If there is something wrong is with the Prequel Trilogy that makes jedis (and oh God, Yoda) videogame-agile beasts.

And I doubt that they needed any energy to stay in orbit, it seemed like a rather stable geostationary orbit.

Looked a bit close when compared to real geostationary orbits. "Hovering on repulsorlifts" seems to me more likely.

Good point, but makes little difference. Either the orbit was stable or reserve power made it stable, either way the mass of the ISD is negated and no gravity plays a role in the force which hits the star destroyers. And that force is strong enough to create the demise of both ships.

Which would be fine if star destroyers would not supposed to be stronger than that and we had a scene just moments later when Vader's ISD takes several high speed impacts without as much as a scratch.

The Tantive and Leia. It's the biggest issue I have with the film. Just felt lazy. There is no good reason for Leia to be there.

If the Tantive had been where it was and ran off and picked up Leia then fine. It's not the Tantive itself. It's a ship that can fight so has as much reason as any other ship to be involved I. That sense.

But there is literally no good reason given for Leia to be on a ship in a warzone at that point.

We can head canon our reasons (I love Star wars but we really ought to be good at that by now lol) but they are all bad reasons!

If we says it's an all hands on deck change of plans to throw the ship in with the fleet, I'd have been happier seeing the Tantive jump out to Tatooine with the plans and have Leia rendezvous there to have them handed to her.

That delay could then be used to explain how Vader catches up with them instead of them just running and coming back for Obi-Wan once the plans are safely delivered.

Oh well we are stuck with it now, I'm hoping something comes along to give a decent canon explanation.

I don't think I have a problem with the Tantive being there... even with Leia being aboard.

I just want to know how C3PO and R2-D2 got from standing around in the Hanger in Yarvin 4 watching the world go by to being in the thick of the battle at such short notice. Because they must be on board... right?

we had a scene just moments later when Vader's ISD takes several high speed impacts without as much as a scratch.

Remind me - what was crashing into Vader's ship - debris, starfighters, capital ships?

Gravity was the force pulling the two ships into the shield gate at least. Presumably they were hovering on repulsorlifts, and not in orbit at all - hence when they lost power and the repulsorlifts failed, the ships dropped like rocks.

I don't think I have a problem with the Tantive being there... even with Leia being aboard.

I just want to know how C3PO and R2-D2 got from standing around in the Hanger in Yarvin 4 watching the world go by to being in the thick of the battle at such short notice. Because they must be on board... right?

Admiral leaves, right before Bail gives the mission to go get Obi Wan to Leia.

Everyone gets rerouted to Scarif and while the fighters lift off, Antilles is probably getting ready to shout for the droids to hurry up (this is likely something that ended up on the cutting room floor for time).

Tantive arrives at the battle with the rest of 'em, everyone takes a pounding, docks with the MC75, grabs the plans and hightails it next door to Tatooine and get the word out to the Jedi Master who really is the only hope between losing it all and winning it all, he needed to get the word to Alderaan, Leia would never be able to get out unnoticed.

we had a scene just moments later when Vader's ISD takes several high speed impacts without as much as a scratch.

Remind me - what was crashing into Vader's ship - debris, starfighters, capital ships?

You see at least one GR75 trying to get away and crashing head first into the Devastator.

But a GR75 is to a Star Destroyer as a small ship is to a GR75 in a game of Epic; 'tis but a scratch.

we had a scene just moments later when Vader's ISD takes several high speed impacts without as much as a scratch.

Remind me - what was crashing into Vader's ship - debris, starfighters, capital ships?

Gravity was the force pulling the two ships into the shield gate at least. Presumably they were hovering on repulsorlifts, and not in orbit at all - hence when they lost power and the repulsorlifts failed, the ships dropped like rocks.

Corvettes and GR75s, IIRC.

Presumably Vader's ship was almost at speed zero from deceleration by the time the corvettes started crashing into it.

The other ships being more damaged from colliding with one-another - ion torpedoes bringing down shields?

The Rogue One Visual Guide says the Devastator was the last ISD-I built before ISD-IIs started being built, and "meets Vader's exacting specifications" and that he "shows an affinity for starship design" so it may be upgraded compared to a standard ISD-I.

A lot of what we thought we knew about hyperspace is being changed by these new movies. Proximity to gravity wells doesn't appear to do squat any more.

Which makes the re-canonized existence of the Interdictor in Rebels a bit more baffling. Ah well, science in Star Wars consists mainly of hand-wavium anyway.

we had a scene just moments later when Vader's ISD takes several high speed impacts without as much as a scratch.

Remind me - what was crashing into Vader's ship - debris, starfighters, capital ships?

Capitals. And not only did Vader just came out of hyperspace, but the others were literally jumping into him and exploding while they went to lightspeed. Some of the fleet just jumped out before Vader's ship blocked the while while others literally went to lightspeed with Vader's star destroyer in the way and exploding on his shields.

we had a scene just moments later when Vader's ISD takes several high speed impacts without as much as a scratch.

Remind me - what was crashing into Vader's ship - debris, starfighters, capital ships?

Capitals.

If you call corvettes and GR75s capitals, sure.

It was only one GR75, wasn't it? One unlucky enough to be right in the Devastator's path

we had a scene just moments later when Vader's ISD takes several high speed impacts without as much as a scratch.

Remind me - what was crashing into Vader's ship - debris, starfighters, capital ships?

Capitals.

If you call corvettes and GR75s capitals, sure.

Based on star wars categories, yeah, smallest type of capitals are corvettes.

we had a scene just moments later when Vader's ISD takes several high speed impacts without as much as a scratch.

Remind me - what was crashing into Vader's ship - debris, starfighters, capital ships?

Capitals. And not only did Vader just came out of hyperspace, but the others were literally jumping into him and exploding while they went to lightspeed. Some of the fleet just jumped out before Vader's ship blocked the while while others literally went to lightspeed with Vader's star destroyer in the way and exploding on his shields.

You seriously don't see the difference between a disabled ISD being pushed by a large corvette and a GR-75 smashing into an isd with no battle damage, fully operational thrusters and shields?

About two ISD smahsing into each other: a man with a jetpack can accelerate a disabled ISD. A large corvette will od it faster, and while the ship has momentum it doesn't care where did it come from, there is no difference between ISD using its own thrusters to ram another ISD or being pushed by another ship. And the disabled one impacted the superstucture of the second ship with its main hull, safe to assume that the hull is better armored, tougher, than the superstructure.